The Flash Is anyone else kinda of sick of how they portray Barry?

[Jedi Arrow]

The writing has been crap all season 2. They literally changed Barry's entire character develop through a 180 in the last 2-3 episodes. They had an entire episode with him in the speed force, supposedly helping him come to terms of accepting his mother's death and forgiving himself, and you'd think that would be the end of it. Then he forgets all about it literally 2 (or was it 1) episodes later in the finale. If this wasn't DC and Iris and Caitlin weren't hot, I'd be done with this show.

You forget, his dad died between those two events. Barry was miserable; he wasn't thinking logically or dwelling on the fact that he'd gotten over his mom's death; it was all about the fresh pain Zoom had caused him, and he just wanted to fix it. To him, that meant going to the source of all his pain: the day his mother died. Was it stupid? Yes, but he wasn't thinking, he was reacting to his pain. So I wouldn't call that crap writing or his character doing a 180, I call it him being a human being.

 

[Legendver2]

You forget, his dad died between those two events. Barry was miserable; he wasn't thinking logically or dwelling on the fact that he'd gotten over his mom's death; it was all about the fresh pain Zoom had caused him, and he just wanted to fix it. To him, that meant going to the source of all his pain: the day his mother died. Was it stupid? Yes, but he wasn't thinking, he was reacting to his pain. So I wouldn't call that crap writing or his character doing a 180, I call it him being a human being.

At least to me personally, it's crap storytelling. He just got over his mother's death, and he's going to open that wound again, and most likely fully knowing its gonna change everything. A better way to handle this, imo, that would also make him "more human" is him going back to save just his dad. It was only a few days difference, and it's not like he didn't use time remnants before. He would tease the timeline sure, but he won't straight up f*** it like he is doing now. It gets repetitive when he keeps opening the mom wound, when he could've just fixed the dad wound easily and not f*** everything else to hell.

But I'll chalk this up as John Wesley not being available and Michelle Harrison is. But I guess I can kinda live with it if they add a third hottie to the cast in the form of Nora Allen (don't judge me t

 

[DrCosmic]

You forget, his dad died between those two events. Barry was miserable; he wasn't thinking logically or dwelling on the fact that he'd gotten over his mom's death; it was all about the fresh pain Zoom had caused him, and he just wanted to fix it. To him, that meant going to the source of all his pain: the day his mother died. Was it stupid? Yes, but he wasn't thinking, he was reacting to his pain. So I wouldn't call that crap writing or his character doing a 180, I call it him being a human being.

Barry's always miserable, and never thinks logically, which says a lot about why I don't like the way they portray Barry, but to go further, the pain wasn't fresh, he had time to react to Jay, hang out with his family, affirm his love to Iris and spent time reflecting on what he was about to do and how much ill it would do to his friends and family. THEN he went back, and forgot everything he learned.

And worse, it wasn't just the character doing a 180, the problem I have is not with Barry, he's just doing what the writers make him do, I have a problem with the writers doing a 180. They chose to do a storyline where the eternal speed force who knows everything about all time decided that Barry had moved past this issue to their satisfaction... but then a few episodes later, it's like it never happened. That's poor writing, because you're resolving a theme then revisiting it a short time later.

 

[Eni]

^It would be physically impossible for anyone to earn the right to change history that much considering all the lives that would be damaged or even ended by the act.

If Barry really wanted to save a parent he should've gone back in time just enough to save his dad.

I don't mean that Barry has the right to change history, but with the comic book version you get a much better understanding where his lapse in judgement stems from. TV Barry is just an awfully written mess thanks to really bad writers... a real disappointment.

That aside, I know that a hero shouldn't go around change history - and, no, not even just a few days to save his dad, because even just a second is too much, seeing that I agree that it is 'physically impossible' for anybody to earn that right. We see that in comics and stories again and again, but tbh I would say **** it if I knew that some deranged mofo from the future came back to screw up my life because he has anger issues. Especially if I knew that my life would be a lot less ****** that way. Time is already ****ed up, so why not let it be scrambled some more?

Seriously, with how stupid and inconsistent they are about rules when it comes to time-travel, I don't have a problem with Barry going back in time screwing around a bit more. If it fits the writers, it will end up just as well.

 

[Avenging Angel]

They created their own version of Barry for the show. He has not very much in common with the actual comic Barry Allen, at least had, I think they start to change him in the comics to be more like the show Barry now which is really a pity.

The show Barry is a very nice guy, and I like him showing emotions, although that hardly fits with whom he is supposed to portray as comic Barry was always a very serious, secure and independent person. They pretty much took all of that away and replaced it with doofy, extremely insecure and thus very much dependent on his peers. This Barry Allen is a joke compared to the actual Barry Allen, not only when it comes to his powers but how he is very much lacking as a hero (or just as someone who is able to think thing through before doing them) but I think it is obvious that the writers intended to make him more interesting for a main audience. Why they had to give up on about anything that made Barry Allen Barry Allen I really don't understand as the only thing he has in common with his comic part are the name and that his mom was killed by RF, but the show is popular, so it certainly worked.

I think the fact of the matter is that he is a younger version so we have to get used to these careless errors simply because he is a novice. The show could start over with Wally and kill Barry off. (since he does die in the comics) But I don't think they will. They might kill Iris off because she's useless and they can't write her as anything more than a love interest.

This show doesn't have the same writers as Daredevil. Keep in mind we are dealing with The CW and that factors into every episode.

 

[Thome216]

I keep hoping for a love interest other than Iris. The whole thing just seems forced and she reads more like a secondary character. I had high hopes for Pivot when she showed up, as right away she had more scene presence than Iris.

 

[Eni]

I think the fact of the matter is that he is a younger version so we have to get used to these careless errors simply because he is a novice. The show could start over with Wally and kill Barry off. (since he does die in the comics) But I don't think they will. They might kill Iris off because she's useless and they can't write her as anything more than a love interest.

This show doesn't have the same writers as Daredevil. Keep in mind we are dealing with The CW and that factors into every episode.

He is in his mid-twenties, that is not 'young'. People have kids with that age and live their own adult life. But I agree, they portray him like a teenager most of the time. I think I would give him more of a leeway regarding his characterization if he was still in his teens, I mean Clark in Smallville was behaving rather stupid more often than not, but it was kind of forgivable in the beginning because he was supposed to be a teen. Barry is not. He is just a plain helpless guy who was never able to really make peace with his past or stand on his own two feet.

I don't think Barry being a novice is a sufficient excuse for how he is portrayed, and yeah, CW is CW, but it is kind of sad to say that it is okay for them to suck because we expect them to anyway.

They won't kill Iris. I wouldn't mind to get rid of her, but this will never happen.

 

[DrCosmic]

^Agreed. That excuse wore out by the end of Season 1, and it never really carried much weight for a master CSI to not have above average critical thinking skills.

And anyone thinks Iris is the problem with Iris and not the writers, they're kidding themselves. If some people need to get rid of that scapegoat to see how badly all the characters are plotted, too bad.

 

[fangirl]

Well said DrCosmic.

 

[Thome216]

I remember the first episode, where Barry was visualizing tire treads and measurements, and I though that was pretty cool. It lent the belief that he has an above average intellect, but they then never showed it again. Shame as it was pretty cool.

 

[storyteller]

Barry has the power of a god but he's had devils speaking in his ear ever sense he got them.

 

[Avenging Angel]

He is in his mid-twenties, that is not 'young'. People have kids with that age and live their own adult life. But I agree, they portray him like a teenager most of the time. I think I would give him more of a leeway regarding his characterization if he was still in his teens, I mean Clark in Smallville was behaving rather stupid more often than not, but it was kind of forgivable in the beginning because he was supposed to be a teen. Barry is not. He is just a plain helpless guy who was never able to really make peace with his past or stand on his own two feet.

I don't think Barry being a novice is a sufficient excuse for how he is portrayed, and yeah, CW is CW, but it is kind of sad to say that it is okay for them to suck because we expect them to anyway.

They won't kill Iris. I wouldn't mind to get rid of her, but this will never happen.

Clark's situation was forgivable. And he was born with his powers. I do give Barry some stretch for being new and trying to find his footing, but it's simple stuff. Easy errors that could be avoided if he was strategic once in a while. How long are writers going to keep him in that trope though? It's just lazy writing when they should be growing him at a human pace. He doesn't yet have the brilliant brain that comics Barry has. The writers need to bring back Season 1 Barry where we actually see him with scientific experiments and concoctions.

Yes it is if the movie comes out. DC has the rule that two DC characters can't exist at the same time. And the movie is coming out in March 2018 which cuts into the Season 4 schedule. No word yet if Iris will cameo in JL come November 2017. They killed off Laurel, a much more iconic character than a love interest, this is the CW.

 

[Eni]

Clark's situation was forgivable. And he was born with his powers. I do give Barry some stretch for being new and trying to find his footing, but it's simple stuff. Easy errors that could be avoided if he was strategic once in a while. How long are writers going to keep him in that trope though? It's just lazy writing when they should be growing him at a human pace. He doesn't yet have the brilliant brain that comics Barry has. The writers need to bring back Season 1 Barry where we actually see him with scientific experiments and concoctions.

Yes it is if the movie comes out. DC has the rule that two DC characters can't exist at the same time. And the movie is coming out in March 2018 which cuts into the Season 4 schedule. No word yet if Iris will cameo in JL come November 2017. They killed off Laurel, a much more iconic character than a love interest, this is the CW.

Barry is portrayed inept and exceedingly emotional driven because they try to introduce more drama and 'tension' that way. They want to make him appear 'younger' because younger people can 'identify' with him, which I would take as a real insult if I was still a teenager... Probably also to get the plot where they want it to be, and they clearly don't consider that a man his age and with his profession would likely never act in such a way or make such stupid decisions (at least not all the time). I seriously doubt they will change that anytime soon, just watch the trailer for season three. The idiot clearly didn't learn **** from his past, and we will once again be taken along a ride where Barry fights with his self-doubts and overcomes them only to be taken over by them again in the end. And you know why that's the case? For Drama and to get the plot moving. Simple as that.

I wouldn't compare Laurel with Iris. In relationship to Barry Iris has a way more iconic/important status than Laurel ever did to Olli. If they end up killing her off or sending her off in the future *winkwink* that's also fine with me. I don't care about her as a character in the show, she seriously is not the sole problem of it and she has improved since season one but I still couldn't care less about such a bland and still lackluster written supporting character. I really hope the movies do a better job with Barry, the trailer and what I read did at least make it seem quite promising, at least.

 

[Eni]

And anyone thinks Iris is the problem with Iris and not the writers, they're kidding themselves. If some people need to get rid of that scapegoat to see how badly all the characters are plotted, too bad.

Nah, it's obviously the writer's fault why Iris is so disliked by many. I'm someone that, once I don't like a character, I unfortunately stick to it, and they can now turn Iris into the sweetest and most charming and most badass butterfly there is, I still won't like her because I learned to dislike her in season one. So for me, they can get rid of her. I'm petty like that. *shrug* That is only how I see it, tho, and it doesn't mean I don't recognize what a outright miserable job they writers do with the rest of the characters as well. I like Iris in the comics, I was really pissed off about them breaking her and Barry apart with the New52 ****, and I'm looking forward to see her in the movies. Has nothing to do with not liking female character, or not liking her skin color, or with needing a scapegoat for the show, just with me not like her because I don't like how she was written and portrayed in the first season which unfortunately stuck.

 

[Wheels]

This isn't just a problem with CW's Flash, it's the vast majority of these youngish characters in comics. Look at the way Spider-Man is depicted in most media. That guy is very impulsive and he constantly makes stupid decisions based on emotion. It's just tropes we see in these stories and we likely always will.

 

[Kyle]

Yes it is if the movie comes out. DC has the rule that two DC characters can't exist at the same time. And the movie is coming out in March 2018 which cuts into the Season 4 schedule. No word yet if Iris will cameo in JL come November 2017. They killed off Laurel, a much more iconic character than a love interest, this is the CW.

This is largely ignoring the fact that after Superman hit the screen he's becoming incorporated in a much larger way on the CW. Plus it ignores that Gordon is the driving force behind a Batman show and is soon to be played by JK Simmons on film. Supermen, Gordons, and that list goes on. Laurel was killed because "no DC characters can exist at the same time" in what universe is this true? Laurel isn't in any of the DC films and Green Arrow on film is nowhere in sight at this point. She was killed for Olicity. You're going off of 'Batman Begins' era restrictions that have clearly gone away, if they haven't do you seriously believe DC Films would have let Superman become part of the 'Supergirl' show to the point that he has? "He died" um, no he hasn't - everyone knows he's coming back to life. Supermen co-exist, one of the most iconic DC characters co-exist in two forms of live media.

You can say Iris might be killed, but that reason "no two DC characters exist same time" is filled with many, many holes.

 

[DrCosmic]

Nah, it's obviously the writer's fault why Iris is so disliked by many. I'm someone that, once I don't like a character, I unfortunately stick to it, and they can now turn Iris into the sweetest and most charming and most badass butterfly there is, I still won't like her because I learned to dislike her in season one. So for me, they can get rid of her. I'm petty like that. *shrug* That is only how I see it, tho, and it doesn't mean I don't recognize what a outright miserable job they writers do with the rest of the characters as well. I like Iris in the comics, I was really pissed off about them breaking her and Barry apart with the New52 ****, and I'm looking forward to see her in the movies. Has nothing to do with not liking female character, or not liking her skin color, or with needing a scapegoat for the show, just with me not like her because I don't like how she was written and portrayed in the first season which unfortunately stuck.

Again, you misunderstand the problem. If you have a writers room with a culture of scapegoating, then getting rid of their scapegoat will just prompt them to choose a different one. Regardless of your motivation, getting rid of a bad character without getting rid of the habits that created that character will not make a better show, though, obviously different people might enjoy it differently for meta reasons, such as yourself, and that's fine too.

This isn't just a problem with CW's Flash, it's the vast majority of these youngish characters in comics. Look at the way Spider-Man is depicted in most media. That guy is very impulsive and he constantly makes stupid decisions based on emotion. It's just tropes we see in these stories and we likely always will.

What separates a good Spider-Man from CW Barry is that Peter makes NEW stupid decisions. If Spider-Man ever let a robber pass because he felt jilted and that robber ended up killing Aunt May, I'd say that the writer had written Peter Parker incorrectly and had misunderstood the very basic nature of who Peter is and the fact that he learns from his stupid mistakes.

 

[Eni]

Again, you misunderstand the problem. If you have a writers room with a culture of scapegoating, then getting rid of their scapegoat will just prompt them to choose a different one. Regardless of your motivation, getting rid of a bad character without getting rid of the habits that created that character will not make a better show, though, obviously different people might enjoy it differently for meta reasons, such as yourself, and that's fine too.

I think we're here on two entirely different level regarding this topic - you're misunderstanding me, I think the writers do a horrible job with all the female cast, Iris, Caitlin, Patty, etc. I agree, you should get rid of them and replace the writers with someone who can actually write women. But with the show as it is now, I still would prefer to get rid of Iris simply because I don't like her. Does that solve the root of the actual problem? Nope, but will it increase my enjoyment of the show? Yes.
Seriously, I get what you say, but this is just a CW show, I don't have huge expectations in anything drastically changing over the next season when it comes to writing quality and characterization, neither for Iris nor Barry, nor anybody else. Is it bad to have so low expectations or just to be already satisfied with them killing a character off I don't like instead of taking care of the problem itself? Well, I'm not the head of CW, so I'll take what I can get.

 

[holasoymax]

He's a gentle, but also strong-willed young man with the naivety that you exspect from a guy that got super powers with such a young age and who has lost his whole family (his mum departed from the life and his dad jailed for the deed of a misterious speedster). I like the way they portray him.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think we're here on two entirely different level regarding this topic - you're misunderstanding me, I think the writers do a horrible job with all the female cast, Iris, Caitlin, Patty, etc. I agree, you should get rid of them and replace the writers with someone who can actually write women. But with the show as it is now, I still would prefer to get rid of Iris simply because I don't like her. Does that solve the root of the actual problem? Nope, but will it increase my enjoyment of the show? Yes.
Seriously, I get what you say, but this is just a CW show, I don't have huge expectations in anything drastically changing over the next season when it comes to writing quality and characterization, neither for Iris nor Barry, nor anybody else. Is it bad to have so low expectations or just to be already satisfied with them killing a character off I don't like instead of taking care of the problem itself? Well, I'm not the head of CW, so I'll take what I can get.

So... you'd enjoy the show if they get rid of Iris and then Caitlin starts doing the same things Iris used to do? Or Joe? Perhaps you're kind of 'locked in' to your Season 1 opinions, but for me... I like Iris well enough that I don't want to lose her AND lose another character being likable to.

Again, to each his own.

 

[metaphysician]

I would only want them to "remove" Iris if:

1. They had a major shift in the writing team, such as to fix their dire flaws in writing romance subplots

2. The new writers tried their best, but couldn't come up with any way to repair the damage done to Iris ( without otherwise making things worse )

The thing is, the second really shouldn't ever be true, not on a show with time travel as a regular element. If push comes to shove, you could outright time begoobery retcon whatever stuff is the problem.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Yes, and no.

 

[Web-Head]

I decided to go back and re watch season 1 and early on Grant was closer to the Barry Allen from the comics, IMO. As the series has progressed they've deviated from that a little bit.

I wish he would just be a little bit more on his own and made his own decisions while fighting the villains.

 

[JulesWagner]

I really got into the first season and I was excited to start watching season two and then I literally turned everything off halfway through the King Shark episode. At that point, the series had become relentlessly frustrating and exasperating instead of enjoyable.

I love The Flash. Definitely one of my favorites from DC but to see him devolve into a dumb 10-year old has just become too painful. It's obvious they're giving him the cute puppy treatment i.e. so dumb and vulnerable it's actually adorable to some. We don't even have to wonder what kind of demographic they're pandering to, right now.

I've been into comics for decades and I can't imagine a single boy being interested in that kind of awkward, vulnerable man-child. The kind that has the power to travel between dimensions/universes and yet orchestrates the most pathetic and deplorable infiltration mission I've seen in a long long time. It simply is like there is a switch on his brain and it's seriously faulty. The current Barry Allen displays not a single skill or quality that the most novice CSI requires so it's really difficult to take anything he says or does seriously.

I will go back to season two, although I've seen spoilers here and there. But then again, from what the second season has shown me so far, I am not one bit surprised that they manage to screw the pooch completely and leave that pooch for dead.

Stagnating is, I think, the most accurate word to describe the serie's flow up to this point.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I wonder if you guys who have a problem with Barry's dumb decisions and personality have a history with Smallville? The only reason I ask is because it seems that the problems being mentioned in regards to Barry also occurred with Clark on Smallville. Fans jokingly called Clark the Big Dumb Alien because of the stupid things the writers would make him do; and usually it was because they had to justify or build up the characters around him. Seems a similar thing might be happening with Barry.