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Infinity War Is Shuri Truly Smarter Than Tony Stark?

OK, since Black Panther hit, I have seen tons of articles, videos and whatnot about how Shuri is the new brains of the MCU. But does that really hold water? Just for arguments sake,
most of her inventions surround the vibranium technology. Take that away from her, would she have been just as successful in her inventions,
where as you take Tony, he built a mobile arc reactor and the first Iron-Man suit, in a cave using scraps and spare parts, and then, with the help of his deceased father, even created a new element all on his own.

I also wonder if any of this is going to come into play in the movie. There are so many unanswered questions. Like, how did Howard Stark get the vibranium to make Cap's shield? Howard Stark was a pretty famous figure back in his prime, someone that even T'Challa would probably be aware of, so I wonder if Howard did know
about Wakanda and was well respected by the leaders of Wakanda at the time (all speculation here of course), and that might be one of the
reasons T'Challa was so quick to be on Tony's side during Civil War.

And heck, what about Thor. Him being a God of some sorts, you think he will be aware of Wakanda? I mean, the whole BP film was built up that they kept hidden all of this time, but then you got Loki and Thor being able to go in and out of highly secured and secret areas without a problem. Then let's not mention Vision..... Like I said, so many questions. Heck, what about the fact that Wakanda is supposed to be the most technically advanced nation in the world, but yet, they had to have CIA agent Ross explain to them who exactly Kilmonger is. You would think with all of their spies around the globe, they would have known exactly who he was. So, could we be seeing some plot holes with upcoming films regarding this secret country?


Well the arc reactor wasn't Tony's invention either. he just miniaturized it. Whiplashes father and Tony's father came up with the idea, remember IM2? so while vibranium was given to Shuri she found new and creative things to do with it just like tony was given the concept of the arc reactor
 
I'd assume Shuri is just slightly less genius than Stark. Stark created Ultron, when Shuri does anything similar to that, I'll commend her. She's smarter than Peter for sure by leagues, maybe even Bruce level. But not Stark. Stark is the pinnacle of knowledge in the MCU atm.

In the IW tie in comic Shuri claims to have created better AI than stark...and Stark use the mind stone to create Ultron...so...not from scratch.
 
Mjölnir;36401163 said:
I don't think her inventions seem more advanced, apart from that she has access to vibranium. The IM suit has a lot more functionality than the BP suit, the remote vehicle control Shuri has would have been self-controlled through AI with Stark, etc. Shuri does seem to have more knowledge about biology than Stark though.

We can be pretty sure Stark built all the stuff we see him have, while Shuri's predecessors likely built plenty of what's in Wakanda given her age.

Not that it matters though. Both make extremely fantastical stuff.

Everyone trying to forget that Howard Stark started Star industries and the empire Tony further built up....
 
Everyone trying to forget that Howard Stark started Star industries and the empire Tony further built up....

The only thing we saw of extreme high tech from that was the large arc reactor that Tony miniaturized. The suits, the AI, the legion, etc are all far beyond where Star Industries was.
 
Mjölnir;36402379 said:
The only thing we saw of extreme high tech from that was the large arc reactor that Tony miniaturized. The suits, the AI, the legion, etc are all far beyond where Star Industries was.

All his suits were possible because of the arc reactor and the AI came from the mind stone. Everyone wants to invalidate Shuri because she had that one thing...vibranium....but forget Tony had an advantage as well. both were smart and both had stuff to work with, neither made something from nothing
 
All his suits were possible because of the arc reactor and the AI came from the mind stone. Everyone wants to invalidate Shuri because she had that one thing...vibranium....but forget Tony had an advantage as well. both were smart and both had stuff to work with, neither made something from nothing

Jarvis and the offshoot versions are AI. Not as complete as Ultron's, but it's still what we call AI. Actually the only difference to Ultron that we've observed was Stark saying that there's a difference.

Shuri doesn't just have vibranium, she also builds on technology that's been created by others, and likely more so than Tony because she's just 16 years old and haven't had the same time to stand on her own.
 
I just want her to offer Stark an internship like someone joked about in the Black Panther thread. :funny:
 
Thor might not have known about Wakanda but I'm sure Heimdall did. I don't think Loki knew about it either. Otherwise I think he would have attempted to use it for his own purposes when he tried to conquer Earth. Why not use the mind stone on Shuri? That would have been handy.
Mjölnir;36397197 said:
Heimdall could very well know about it though. I doubt any of the Asgardians have any reason to take interest in Wakanda though.
I'm not convinced, not necessarily because of Wakandan technology (although if it is indeed powered by an infinity stone, it is possible that Heimidall can't see into the cloaking field).

For me, it's more a case of him not knowing where to look. He's the gatekeeper, a guardian, and watches over the realms - presumably looking at what he knows. If he's never been told about, or made aware of Wakanda, would he know it's there to look at?

It's like one of us not knowing a certain country exists, so we never think to vacate there.
 
Mjölnir;36400737 said:
That was my point. Shuri could have higher IQ but she hasn't had time to gather the same amount of knowledge and experience so that's why Stark has done more impressive things (not accounting for the age of which they accomplished them).


She could also have lower IQ, just a higher technological basis to build on.

We don't know, there's nothing to gauge this on. The people that love Shuri will say Shuri, the people who love Tony will say Tony. All this is.

Also, IQ's not the only determiner of this stuff. Plenty of people without necessarily having sky-high IQs cook up amazingly creative & influential tech/inventions, and plenty of people with off-the-charts IQs don't have that entrepreneurial/inventive side.
 
I'm not convinced, not necessarily because of Wakandan technology (although if it is indeed powered by an infinity stone, it is possible that Heimidall can't see into the cloaking field).

For me, it's more a case of him not knowing where to look. He's the gatekeeper, a guardian, and watches over the realms - presumably looking at what he knows. If he's never been told about, or made aware of Wakanda, would he know it's there to look at?

It's like one of us not knowing a certain country exists, so we never think to vacate there.

Heimdall doesn't just look at one thing at any given point like we do, he's not a set of binoculars. As he told Thor, he can see 10 trillion souls and if he had to look at them one by one he'd have to stand there an absurdly long time just to count them. When Thor was on Sakaar he found Thor and could then instantly tell him the only road back that would be fast enough.

The worlds he's likely to have studied the most are the Nine Realms, and even if he couldn't see through Wakanda's cloaking field he'd certainly be able to see advanced ships flying into a huge forested hill and disappearing.
 
In the IW tie in comic Shuri claims to have created better AI than stark...and Stark use the mind stone to create Ultron...so...not from scratch.

Did she not know about JARVIS, FRIDAY, JOCASTA and the other AI he created?
 
Mjölnir;36402565 said:
Jarvis and the offshoot versions are AI. Not as complete as Ultron's, but it's still what we call AI. Actually the only difference to Ultron that we've observed was Stark saying that there's a difference.

Shuri doesn't just have vibranium, she also builds on technology that's been created by others, and likely more so than Tony because she's just 16 years old and haven't had the same time to stand on her own.

Ultron is different than Jarvis because Ultron had free will and his own desires. Jarvis was a slave to his programming and couldn't evolve beyond what Stark programmed him to do. So, Ultron being different from Jarvis goes far beyond "Stark just says they're different." That's a major, fundamental difference.
 
Ultron is different than Jarvis because Ultron had free will and his own desires. Jarvis was a slave to his programming and couldn't evolve beyond what Stark programmed him to do. So, Ultron being different from Jarvis goes far beyond "Stark just says they're different." That's a major, fundamental difference.

An AI is a device that perceives its environment and takes action that maximizes its chance of successfully achieving its goals. More colloquially it's described as a machine that can learn on and solve problems on its own.

Jarvis fully fits the definitions of an AI, and an extremely advanced one at that, so the only reason there's any actual difference between him and Ultron is because they said so, and because they were written to act differently.
 
Mjölnir;36404827 said:
An AI is a device that perceives its environment and takes action that maximizes its chance of successfully achieving its goals. More colloquially it's described as a machine that can learn on and solve problems on its own.

Jarvis fully fits the definitions of an AI, and an extremely advanced one at that, so the only reason there's any actual difference between him and Ultron is because they said so, and because they were written to act differently.

Definition of artificial intelligence. 1 : a branch of computer science dealing with the simulation of intelligent behavior in computers. 2 : the capability of a machine to imitate intelligent human behavior.

Jarvis does not fit this definition. Jarvis has programmed goals and doesn't operate outside the confines of his programming. Jarvis does not feel human emotions. Yes, he can problem solve on his own, but that is not what simulating human behavior is. Jarvis does not have philosophy, feelings, etc. Ultron does. Ultron has his own set of desires beyond his initial programming, he forms friendships, feels emotions, has a philosophy, etc. This is a major difference.
 
Definition of artificial intelligence. 1 : a branch of computer science dealing with the simulation of intelligent behavior in computers. 2 : the capability of a machine to imitate intelligent human behavior.

Jarvis does not fit this definition. Jarvis has programmed goals and doesn't operate outside the confines of his programming. Jarvis does not feel human emotions. Yes, he can problem solve on his own, but that is not what simulating human behavior is. Jarvis does not have philosophy, feelings, etc. Ultron does. Ultron has his own set of desires beyond his initial programming, he forms friendships, feels emotions, has a philosophy, etc. This is a major difference.

What I gave you is the definition used in computer science, the field of my education (or at least within the field of my education). AI in in no way whatsoever just about imitating human behavior, that's actually not a very prominent part of it at all. When researchers plan to use AI to study things like cancer they of course won't make their AI's learn about emotions, philosophy, etc.

Jarvis is a far more advanced AI than anything we currently have in the real world, and the only actual reason he's not acting like Ultron is because they are written differently as characters, and then Jarvis is just said to not be an AI despite that we've actually seen him perform work that requires an AI.
 
Mjölnir;36404939 said:
What I gave you is the definition used in computer science, the field of my education (or at least within the field of my education). AI in in no way whatsoever just about imitating human behavior, that's actually not a very prominent part of it at all. When researchers plan to use AI to study things like cancer they of course won't make their AI's learn about emotions, philosophy, etc.

Jarvis is a far more advanced AI than anything we currently have in the real world, and the only actual reason he's not acting like Ultron is because they are written differently as characters, and then Jarvis is just said to not be an AI despite that we've actually seen him perform work that requires an AI.

In other words, you have a different definition of AI than I do. You may have a different definition in computer science, but that's clearly not the definition Whedon/Marvel were using for AoU. They were using something closer to my definition, for which Jarvis doesn't qualify as an AI per that definition. He is still a highly advanced operating system.
 
In other words, you have a different definition of AI than I do. You may have a different definition in computer science, but that's clearly not the definition Whedon/Marvel were using for AoU. They were using something closer to my definition, for which Jarvis doesn't qualify as an AI per that definition. He is still a highly advanced operating system.

I don't have any definition, I just pointed to the existing one used by those that actually deal with the subject. The definition you posted says the same as mine in the first point (although with flawed wording), and the second is just based on some everyday use that's not really applicable to what the science is about.

Even in fiction it's common to know that. Skynet is obviously an AI, but it's not like humans at all, except for its Terminator drones meant to trick humans through mimicry.
 
Mjölnir;36405043 said:
I don't have any definition, I just pointed to the existing one used by those that actually deal with the subject. The definition you posted says the same as mine in the first point (although with flawed wording), and the second is just based on some everyday use that's not really applicable to what the science is about.

Even in fiction it's common to know that. Skynet is obviously an AI, but it's not like humans at all, except for its Terminator drones meant to trick humans through mimicry.

Skynet may not have emotion, but it developed its own philosophy and way of seeing the world and evaluating it based on its own observations (beyond simple data input). Jarvis analyzes data like an operating system, without judgement or things like that. But, Jarvis doesn't have a view of the world or anything like that. He is not capable of critical thought (like Skynet), only analytical thought. Again, that is the definition the movie is using.
 
I'd give a slight edge to Tony simply because of the generation gap between them (which is really made much greater given the fact that Wakanda is way ahead of it time)

but, given the environment/times and level of technology (as an influence on their work) that they each had access too... Tony's inventions were way more ahead of his times/ and were in many cases the first of their kind (as far as he knew)...

as well as he's been able to keep up with the times (where she had yet to live long enough to prove the same) she certainly has the potential but, it is to soon to really say
 
Skynet may not have emotion, but it developed its own philosophy and way of seeing the world and evaluating it based on its own observations (beyond simple data input). Jarvis analyzes data like an operating system, without judgement or things like that. But, Jarvis doesn't have a view of the world or anything like that. He is not capable of critical thought (like Skynet), only analytical thought. Again, that is the definition the movie is using.

My point is that there's no actual difference, if a program can self learn to that extent it can learn all that. Jarvis just didn't because that's the character. I don't have an actual problem with what they say regarding AI in the films, I'm just pointing out the difference to the real world. The same way I could point out how many things in those films would look like with actual physics, which is not saying I expect, or think they should use real physics.
 
The reason people are saying Shuri is smarter is because one of the producers outright said Shuri is the smartest person on earth and smarter than Tony Stark in an interview before the film came out.
 
The reason people are saying Shuri is smarter is because one of the producers outright said Shuri is the smartest person on earth and smarter than Tony Stark in an interview before the film came out.

Yeah... all this arguing seems kinda pointless. If Marvel says shes smarter, then she's smarter.
 

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