Is the American Political System Workable in the Modern Age?

[TMC1982]

Or has factionalism reached the point of making the power structure impotent in the face of problems in international relations, globalization and domestic public policy? What should be the role of the ordinary citizen in dealing with some of these problems?

 

[Kelly]

Is a Republic type of government working?
or
Is Federalism working?
I think it will work if the last question is answered by Washington.

It seems to me that this administration has an agenda, and it does not give a damn what the people want or say...So, what we have RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT, is none of the above, Republic, or Federalism....BUT, I am also not ready to call it Socialism, but I do believe that our President is a Social Democrat to the extreme that ran as a moderate/left Democrat, but is looking to "change" our government to fit his ideology even though it is obvious that the American citizen does not adhere to that ideology.

I think Obama's thinking falls into this Norman Thomas quote...

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."

BUT, I think this administration underestimated the amount of Americans that "maybe just recently..." but are now watching this government very closely. IMO, THIS IS THE BEST THING TO HAVE HAPPENED OUT OF THE LAST 3 YEARS....including the last year of the Bush Administration....my only regret is that people were not as WATCHFUL, during Bush's Administration.....I wish our media had done their job...

Do I think that this Social Democracy pseudo Socialism in the future will work in this country? No, I think Europe is an example of that...

Do I have the answer?...well, I can say this....the answer was not Bush, and it is not Obama..... I think we are about to see an upheaval in our government, and I don't think it is going to go as smoothly as Great Britain's upheaval. It will be interesting to watch none the less, and a Political Geography teacher's dream....

 

[Majic Walrus]

Are you referring to the American Political System being applied to other places that aren't America or the functionality of the Political System in and of itself? Also for the purposes of this question you should really define functionality. Does functionality in this sense imply that something works well or just that it works?

 

[Paradoxium]

Intent and outcome are two different things. A Republic is good in theory but it has more or less devolved into a Democracy. That's right people I am anti-Democracy.

 

[StorminNorman]

The American Political System, as it was made, is more than workable in the Modern Age. We simply haven't used the American Political System in quite a while.

The Founders planned on a Constitutional Federalist Republic founded upon the notion of Individual Rights (Capitalism). Federalism is dead and the Republic has turned into a Democracy and Individual Rights are regularly discarded for the "Greater Good".

Give us what the Founders intended and America will be the greatest country on Earth.

 

[Addendum]

I never thought the "american political system" worked before.

As for "going back to what the founders intended", the government would first have to collapse. But even if it is rebuilt, over time it would grow bigger again.

 

[Paradoxium]

Addendum is on the spot. Yea it would require an economic collapse for a reboot to occur.

AND if it could happen the first time around (grow into something like it is now), it will happen again. There is nothing to stop that - it's a design flaw.

 

[Addendum]

A design flaw inherent in all governments

 

[StorminNorman]

I never thought the "american political system" worked before.

As for "going back to what the founders intended", the government would first have to collapse. But even if it is rebuilt, over time it would grow bigger again.

Addendum is on the spot. Yea it would require an economic collapse for a reboot to occur.

AND if it could happen the first time around (grow into something like it is now), it will happen again. There is nothing to stop that - it's a design flaw.

It is possible that a hypothetical reboot would eventually lead to the government we have today, but I refuse to believe that it is an inevitable consequence of our Constitution.

Afterall, I think you can attribute the growth of government to the hypocrisy of Jefferson and other founders regarding slavery. The fact that Hamilton was on the right side of the issue gave him a tremendous advantage over time in the battle for the American government. The Civil War, for example, would have been incredibly difficult to wage against the South if not for the blatant evil of the institution they were fighting to attempt. You cannot claim to be a champion of Individual Rights while utilizing slave labor.

The North's victory is what led to fascism becoming the political ideology of America. After all, it's what allowed the psuedo-Federalist Republican Party to dominate politics (winners of wars typically get to do that) and it was Lincoln's lead that inspired the likes of Teddy Roosevelt and other Progressives.

 

[Addendum]

Growth in government is inevitable. A perpetually small government is only viable on paper.

 

[Bunker]

It seems to me that this administration does not give a damn what the people want or say...

And previous administrations did?

 

[Kelly]

And previous administrations did?

I see an arrogance in this administration that I have not seen in any other administration I have lived through, or studied.

So, did other administrations not listen, sure....but not with the in your face, **** you arrogance of this administration.

 

[Addendum]

I can't fault them for the honesty

 

[bell110]

Wasn't the founders intention for only white landowning males to be able to vote?

Stuff that worked in the 1700s won't necessarily work in the 21st century.

 

[Paradoxium]

Then why is everyone is hellbent on repeating a doomed system that historically and empirically always failed and will continue to fail, a (de facto) Democracy?

 

[bell110]

It's as close as we can get to having some semblance of control in our government without having every household be their own independent nation.

 

[Paradoxium]

What practical good is that if it is unsustainable? History has shown Democracies don't work. It's nonsensical to keep repeating something and hoping it turns out differently.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Wasn't the founders intention for only white landowning males to be able to vote?

Stuff that worked in the 1700s won't necessarily work in the 21st century.

No. The things that HAPPENED were not necessarily in the spirit of the intentions. I don't think that the Constitution was designed with "make sure that colored people and women can't vote" in mind. Those things were simply social norms which have since changed. But the spirit of the Constitution has not changed around that.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

It works great for large corporations and super rich "political investors"

 

[StorminNorman]

Growth in government is inevitable. A perpetually small government is only viable on paper.

Perhaps, but I don't think you can run one test and declare a law. We are now making absolutes based off of one attempt. Obviously I do not need to point out how incredibly illogical that seems.

Wasn't the founders intention for only white landowning males to be able to vote?

No.

Stuff that worked in the 1700s won't necessarily work in the 21st century.

Except that all of the flaws in our government were predicted by those same founding fathers. lolz

Then why is everyone is hellbent on repeating a doomed system that historically and empirically always failed and will continue to fail, a (de facto) Democracy?

Give me some alternatives. Personally I am not for giving up on the best form of government I have seen theorized and put into practice. The American Republic of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison is, in my opinion, the best system of government we could possibly have. We would have to learn the lessons from America's failures and destroy Hamilton's statism before it ever has a chance to strike. We must restrain the Federal Government with the bars that the Constitution was intended to provide.

How can you fault the Constitution when it was written to prevent the very criticisms you hold with government, Dox? It took a government that completely overturned the Constitution and took away the Senate as the voice of state government.

 

[bell110]

No.

Elaborate.

Except that all of the flaws in our government were predicted by those same founding fathers. lolz

lolz, if they predicted it, why didn't they do anything to prevent it? Or is this like Nostradamus type perdictions?

 

[StorminNorman]

Elaborate.

Well, for one, not all of the Founders were racist. Hamilton, Adams, Jay, etc. were extremely liberal on civil rights. The American system of government was not based on the foundation of "Whites Only" - it was based in the belief that you must keep a government small to prevent it from becoming tyrannical.

lolz, if they predicted it, why didn't they do anything to prevent it? Or is this like Nostradamus type perdictions?

They tried. They tried to limit the voice of Democracy in Federal Politics by having the Senate be elected by State Legislature. They tried to place a limit on the size of the Federal government with the Constitution. They tried to protect us against an Income Tax.

Future generations, however, decided the knew better.

 

[Paradoxium]

Perhaps, but I don't think you can run one test and declare a law. We are now making absolutes based off of one attempt. Obviously I do not need to point out how incredibly illogical that seems.

No.



Except that all of the flaws in our government were predicted by those same founding fathers. lolz



Give me some alternatives. Personally I am not for giving up on the best form of government I have seen theorized and put into practice. The American Republic of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison is, in my opinion, the best system of government we could possibly have. We would have to learn the lessons from America's failures and destroy Hamilton's statism before it ever has a chance to strike. We must restrain the Federal Government with the bars that the Constitution was intended to provide.

How can you fault the Constitution when it was written to prevent the very criticisms you hold with government, Dox? It took a government that completely overturned the Constitution and took away the Senate as the voice of state government.

Pseudo joint stock corporations that have regional monopolies. Each having different approaches or strategies. Focused on capital preservation, kind of like a synthesis of Liechtenstein and Hong Kong without the whole catholic monarch of the former. Taxation would be treated as rent.

The fundamental difference I suppose is, I see it as redirecting chaotic energies into something more useful and practical (capital preservation), compared to "socializing and domesticating" people into a certain way (i.e. the progressive way) and thus have some idealist utopia of rainbows and unicorn.

 

[The Overlord]

Intent and outcome are two different things. A Republic is good in theory but it has more or less devolved into a Democracy. That's right people I am anti-Democracy.

And how is getting rid of Democracy, not Social Engineering, which you have railed against in the past?

What if this reboot doesn't lead to the great, almost perfect system you have envisioned doesn't happened and is replaced with something far , far worse. Most governments I have seen collapse are not replaced with magical perfect societies, they are replaced with warlords who create their own private kingdoms. How do you know a "reboot" won't lead to that?

For someone who has criticzed progressivism for being too idealistic, it seems your ideas are very over idealized.

Seriously if you think modern western society is a bad place, then you have a had a very cushy life and don't know what true hardship and suffering is.

 

[Paradoxium]

You made that assumption, I didn't say it will automatically lead to a perfect society. But it won't make much of a differences if it is failing now, to a post-reboot fail alternative. At least you tried something different. This is what I meant by the insanity of repeating the same thing and hoping for a different result. This is why I point to the Patri Friedman model and letting several models flourish, even if many fails. It's effectively a trial and error proposition.