Is the USA a pseudo-fascist state? (Police constantly abusing people)

[Alex_Spider]

I can see your point, and I'm open to debate with people about this because I am not American and people who live there surely have a better idea about what it's like than I do. But about the bolded part...I have to ask: If that isn't the way to beat the terrorists, what is the way? Just curious.

Do you really think it is in the government's interest to beat once and for all "terrorism"? Do you have any idea how many industries the "war on terror" fuels and the income it generates as a result?
I wonder after the wars in Afghanistan, in Iraq, with Bin Laden dead, Sadam is also dead, why are we still worrying about those kind of things anymore? What was accomplished after all this mess? I am sorry but there is more to it, than just some crazed muslim teens planting bombs and yelling Allah. That's just how it is. The evidence is overwhelming by a great number of military insiders that are deep involved and choose to speak the truth.

 

[charl_huntress]

Are you sure this is the real reason they fight and die for?

You know I had the benefit of joining the military prior to 9/11. I can't say I joined to fight and die for other folks, but after that day the concept I might actually die for someone else became very real for me.

Well, there are plenty of military men and women like CH that have a different opinion about what's really happening with the wars. Just sayin'..

That's fine... This country allows that sort of freedom and people fight and die to protect that all the time.

And those people who have served have a right to their opinion and I wish them all well and would like MORE of the veterans of America's military involved in our politics from all over the spectrum.

But my point was a more a truly personal piece of advice. When it comes to her military service and CH's views, TREAD LIGHTLY. That not about politics, it's about wisdom young sir.

Namaste

I'm not that bad...am I?

The best part of America is the ability to improve itself. Unfortunately it can just as easily regress.

It's not idiotic to simply be critical of one's government.

Do people really think we live in a pseudo-fascist state? Do they really think the police are that out of control? tbh...I only read the OP. I couldn't bear to read anything else.

 

[Schlosser85]

Tread lightly. CH was in the military. Her viewpoint comes from someone who seems to take her oath as a veteran very seriously. Just saying.

I respect CH's service, as well as anyone else's, and this post isn't meant to be any kind of slight against her or anyone else...but someone being a veteran doesn't mean their views are above question.

 

[Schlosser85]

To respond to the OP...I wouldn't go so far as to say we're in a pseudo-Fascist police state....yet.

But the Patriot Act was certainly a big step in that direction. It was blatantly unconstitutional, yet a Republican President introduced it and a Democrat President not only allowed it to remain, but broadened and expanded it.

And people aren't up in arms about this, they're signing petitions to deport Justin Bieber to Canada, arguing about the guy from Duck Dynasty, or keeping up with the Kardashians.

The general public's sheer vapidity is the greatest weapon for opportunistic politicians who would like to see the USA as a pseudo-Fascist police state...and they do exist. And have become significantly bolder since 9/11.

 

[Alex_Spider]

To respond to the OP...I wouldn't go so far as to say we're in a pseudo-Fascist police state....yet.

But the Patriot Act was certainly a big step in that direction. It was blatantly unconstitutional, yet a Republican President introduced it and a Democrat President not only allowed it to remain, but broadened and expanded it.

And people aren't up in arms about this, they're signing petitions to deport Justin Bieber to Canada, arguing about the guy from Duck Dynasty, or keeping up with the Kardashians.

The general public's sheer vapidity is the greatest weapon for opportunistic politicians who would like to see the USA as a pseudo-Fascist police state...and they do exist. And have become significantly bolder since 9/11.

Agreed.

 

[Schlosser85]

Hundreds of years ago, Americans fought a revolution over taxation without representation, and nowadays we're apathetic about The Patriot Act.

The Founding Fathers would be rolling in their graves.

 

[Teelie]

There is still taxation with representation. It's just that the representation is corporate and the taxation is on the people (who aren't rich).

 

[Alex_Spider]

You know I had the benefit of joining the military prior to 9/11. I can't say I joined to fight and die for other folks, but after that day the concept I might actually die for someone else became very real for me.

That's fine... This country allows that sort of freedom and people fight and die to protect that all the time.

I'm not that bad...am I?

Do people really think we live in a pseudo-fascist state? Do they really think the police are that out of control? tbh...I only read the OP. I couldn't bear to read anything else.

You have to wonder though, who is the bigger threat to our freedom? An exotic land of religious fanatics, or our own sociopolitical structure? How much freedom do we really have in our every day lives and the choices we make? How much freedom do we have at work, when we go to school, about the quality of our food, our water etc.
And if you ask me, no one has to die for any idea, concept or a group of people. I oppose to that very concept.
Just because those in power put us in a position to fight each other, to preserve their assets and expand their recourses and wealth, that doesn't mean we should play their dirty games. Yes there are evil dictators in many countries, but our governments are not acting out of pure altruism and love for humanity.

 

[Schlosser85]

There are times when war, while it should be an absolute last resort, is unavoidable.

WWII, for example. Japan attacked us, and Germany and Italy declared war on us before we declared war on them. There wasn't going to be any avoiding that one, not long-term.

WWI was a significantly more gray area, mainly because there weren't as clear "bad guys" as in WWII. And Vietnam was just a disastrous quagmire.

I didn't have a problem with going to Afghanistan after 9/11. I had a problem with the way we half-heartedly looked for bin Laden for a little bit in Afghanistan, then veered off into Iraq on trumped-up "intelligence" that it had anything to do with 9/11.

We were justified going to Afghanistan, IMO. We shouldn't have gone to Iraq. Invading a sovereign nation without provocation was declared a war crime at the Nuremberg Trials. That wasn't meant to apply only to the Nazis, it was meant to set a precedent for the future.

But then, Nazis were also charged with torture for waterboarding prisoners, and nowadays we have US politicians openly defending waterboarding and saying with straight faces that it isn't torture. Historically, the USA has always been quite fond of double standards and setting itself above the rules it holds everyone else to.

 

[Alex_Spider]

There are times when war, while it should be an absolute last resort, is unavoidable.

WWII, for example. Japan attacked us, and Germany and Italy declared war on us before we declared war on them. There wasn't going to be any avoiding that one, not long-term.

WWI was a significantly more gray area, mainly because there weren't as clear "bad guys" as in WWII. And Vietnam was just a disastrous quagmire.

I didn't have a problem with going to Afghanistan after 9/11. I had a problem with the way we half-heartedly looked for bin Laden for a little bit in Afghanistan, then veered off into Iraq on trumped-up "intelligence" that it had anything to do with 9/11.

We were justified going to Afghanistan, IMO. We shouldn't have gone to Iraq. Invading a sovereign nation without provocation was declared a war crime at the Nuremberg Trials. That wasn't meant to apply only to the Nazis, it was meant to set a precedent for the future.

But then, Nazis were also charged with torture for waterboarding prisoners, and nowadays we have US politicians openly defending waterboarding and saying with straight faces that it isn't torture. Historically, the USA has always been quite fond of double standards and setting itself above the rules it holds everyone else to.

Well, fortunately the days of WW2 are gone. Today the world is coming together very fast thanks to the age of internet and the advanced technology. People are realising they don't have to hate a whole nation just because their government is acting in evil ways and brainwashes its population.
I blame the ruling class for the hatred between nations and fortunately the concept of their leadership is slowly becoming irrelevant and will be a thing of the past.

 

[moviedoors]

I keep seeing Justin Beiber being brought up, as though you guys think his existence and fanbase is indicative of something.

 

[Spider-X]

Do you really think it is in the government's interest to beat once and for all "terrorism?"

What a goofy notion. You cannot beat an abstract thought. So long as humans exist and have free though and will, no one cannot "once and for all beat terrorism." It can only be mitigated and managed.

 

[Teelie]

I keep seeing Justin Beiber being brought up, as though you guys think his existence and fanbase is indicative of something.

Some people seriously cite him and other pop stars as some kind of degradation of society although there has been the equivalent of pop stars for centuries if not millennia.

 

[charl_huntress]

You have to wonder though, who is the bigger threat to our freedom? An exotic land of religious fanatics, or our own sociopolitical structure? How much freedom do we really have in our every day lives and the choices we make? How much freedom do we have at work, when we go to school, about the quality of our food, our water etc.
And if you ask me, no one has to die for any idea, concept or a group of people. I oppose to that very concept.
Just because those in power put us in a position to fight each other, to preserve their assets and expand their recourses and wealth, that doesn't mean we should play their dirty games. Yes there are evil dictators in many countries, but our governments are not acting out of pure altruism and love for humanity.

People ask these questions with the idea of freedom in their minds... You can't even really ask these questions unless you are free.... I don't want to be rude, but you have a very infantile notion of freedom and what it means to be free. I mean.... I love hearing how oppressed we are when people can so freely speak their mind....

I respect CH's service, as well as anyone else's, and this post isn't meant to be any kind of slight against her or anyone else...but someone being a veteran doesn't mean their views are above question.

It shouldn't mean that either Schlosser.

 

[Alex_Spider]

People ask these questions with the idea of freedom in their minds... You can't even really ask these questions unless you are free.... I don't want to be rude, but you have a very infantile notion of freedom and what it means to be free. I mean.... I love hearing how oppressed we are when people can so freely speak their mind....

It shouldn't mean that either Schlosser.

I didn't say that only Americans are oppressed by their governments. That happens in every nation in the planet. How am I exactly having an infantile notion of freedom, when you and many others think that freedom is limited to the solely right of being able to say whatever we want without getting prosecuted? Oh, that and the right to consume in large shopping centres luxury goods that deplete Earth's recourses and contaminate the oceans and our environment.
Yeah, that is what freedom is all about.

 

[KevanG]

I'm not that bad...am I?

We fear your ire.

 

[Alex_Spider]

What a goofy notion. You cannot beat an abstract thought. So long as humans exist and have free though and will, no one cannot "once and for all beat terrorism." It can only be mitigated and managed.

Check again. It wasn't me who stated first that we can "once and for all beat terrorism". It was MrsKent.

 

[charl_huntress]

I didn't say that only Americans are oppressed by their governments. That happens in every nation in the planet. How am I exactly having an infantile notion of freedom, when you and many others think that freedom is limited to the solely right of being able to say whatever we want without getting prosecuted? Oh, that and the right to consume in large shopping centres luxury goods that deplete Earth's recourses and contaminate the oceans and our environment.
Yeah, that is what freedom is all about.

What do you think it's all about? Or better yet...what sort of freedoms are you willing to die for?

We fear your ire.

 

[Alex_Spider]

What do you think it's all about? Or better yet...what sort of freedoms are you willing to die for?

Really? You're asking me what more there is to freedom? In a truly free and sane world we would make love and partying 24/7 without the burden of paid slavery and the struggle to earn a living. We would be traveling across the globe in fast ecological vehicles and visit every corner of the Earth before we eventually die content and fully aware of the beauty of this planet.
But as long as we live in our small confined worlds, following orders from a minority of mobsters then yeah, those things may seem far fetched and ridiculous notions.

As to what sort of freedoms I am willing to die for? None. As I wrote a while before, there is absolutely no reason to die for an idea or a concept, especially in todays advanced societies. I just hope the world comes together more quickly and start working towards the things I mentioned above without anyone being killed in the process.

 

[charl_huntress]

As to what sort of freedoms I am willing to die for? None.

 

[KevanG]

Well it's like they say, "Give me liberty or... well that's about it really. It's not an either/or situation here."

 

[Schlosser85]

In a truly free and sane world we would make love and partying 24/7 without the burden of paid slavery and the struggle to earn a living.

That's complete la la land fantasy.

 

[KevanG]

Unless we had fully automated robot servants with all industry 100% automated then that might happen but even then people being people would still find some way to **** it up.

 

[Alex_Spider]

Yeah. I am not willing to die for anything, nor I want another person to die for me. What's so bad about it?

 

[Alex_Spider]

That's complete la la land fantasy.

As long as we keep perpetuating the same status quo, yeah it will be a fantasy. But eventually it will come into fruition.