Is Zorro a Superhero?

[Majik1387]

Him being an 1800's Californian wouldn't have anything to do with that, now would it.....?

Not really kno. A swordsman would not be able to take on Clayface; Maybe Poison Ivy if he got close enough.

 

[Warhammer]

Not really kno. A swordsman would not be able to take on Clayface; Maybe Poison Ivy if he got close enough.

In Today's world, his equipment would be updated.
He was very high tech for his time, so he'd be closer to a Bats in today's world.
I don't think that this is far for Zorro.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Not really kno. A swordsman would not be able to take on Clayface; Maybe Poison Ivy if he got close enough.

That's the thing though.....Zorro isn't just a swordsman. The reason that's his primary weapon is b/c that's everyones primary weapon.

Him being in 1800's Cali does matter, b/c if he were updated and in modern times.....do you think he'd still ride a horse? Or use a steel sword, when that's a weapon nobody uses. He's a superhero for his time. Not his fault that he doesn't have access to future technolgy.

 

[3dman27]

That's the thing though.....Zorro isn't just a swordsman. The reason that's his primary weapon is b/c that's everyones primary weapon.

Him being in 1800's Cali does matter, b/c if he were updated and in modern times.....do you think he'd still ride a horse? Or use a steel sword, when that's a weapon nobody uses. He's a superhero for his time. Not his fault that he doesn't have access to future technolgy.

yes thats the way i see it btw have you heard that BKN is prducing a show about a MODERN DAY ZORRO for this fall titled "zorro generation z"?

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah....sigh....I heard of that about a year ago. I've seen the character designs too......and, I dunno.

They seem to be taking the idea from THE PHANTOM, and making Zorro a mantle passed on from father-to-son. They also seemed to have taken a page from Batman (which is more than fair, I think) by having the old Zorro uniforms used by past Zorro's.

The motorcycle, instead of horse, seems to be a good idea. The lightsaber-like sword seems....dubious, to me. But, hey....I'll give it a chance.

I was actually surprised by how good the Telenovela is. Pretty damn good writing there. And, since it's a soap opera....it gets away with **** some of other Zorro's couldn't. Like, getting laid onscreen. Twice.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

bump

 

[Lloyd]

No. Great and heroic as he is, he lacks a costume of tights. I don't know if you've noticed it but all the undisputed superheroes have 1 thing in common: a costume of tights.
Superman: powers, no mask, costume of tights.
Batman: no powers, mask, costume of tights.
Fantastic 4: powers, no mask, identities known, costume of tights.
Zorro has a mask, a cape and black clothing.

 

[Majik1387]

Zorro is not a superhero.
Batman is a superhero.
James Bond is not a superhero.


Batman's rogue gallery is clearly full of super-powered villains, and only super heroes can take down super villains.

 

[dark_b]

a hero hehe

 

[Shikamaru]

The standard test which determines a superhero, IMO, is wearing a costume and having the ability to fight crime. If a character possesses those traits, he's a superhero. Zorro fits both of those aspects perfectly.

There are some exceptions to the rule. Guys like Hulk and Hellboy don't wear any distinct outfits but I still count as superheroes because they don't look human, and their inhuman appearance is kinda their "costume" in a way. But generally speaking, for human-looking characters those are the only two traits they require to be a superhero IMO.

 

[Majik1387]

Costumes are not an indicator of the 'super' moniker.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Yes

 

[Airwings]

No. Great and heroic as he is, he lacks a costume of tights. I don't know if you've noticed it but all the undisputed superheroes have 1 thing in common: a costume of tights.
Superman: powers, no mask, costume of tights.
Batman: no powers, mask, costume of tights.
Fantastic 4: powers, no mask, identities known, costume of tights.
Zorro has a mask, a cape and black clothing.

That makes The Phantom a superhero because of his costume.

What about Mandrake then? He wears regurlar clothes but has "powers".

 

[sueb1863]

I don't consider him a superhero, since they are generally highly skilled or endowed with supernatural abilities. I agree that he's more of a folk hero.

As far as origins go, he's more based on Baroness Orczy's 'The Scarlet Pimpernel' than anything else, I think. The main character there is Sir Percy Blakeney, a wealthy, foppish Englishman who goes undercover as The Scarlet PImpernel to rescue condemned men and women from the guillotine during the French Revolution. The story started first as a book in 1899, then became a play in 1903, and featured the first use of the idea of a secret identity in fiction.

Here's an interesting article on the history of secret identities and whether characters like Sir Percy and Zorro are superheroes:

geekgirlcon.com/superheroes-began-with-a-woman-remembering-baroness-emma-orczy/

 

[Breogan]

Was Bob Kane/Bill Finger inspired by Zorro to create Batman? Or was that just from the comics that Batman was inspired by Zorro?

And yeah like others, I do consider Zorro as an old school Batman.

Both Kane and Finger cite Zorro and Fairbanks (who somewhat invented the action hero movie genre) , as one of the many influences on Bruce Wayne Batman. Amongst others: Holmes, the Shadow, The Bat, etc... )
Pretty much they took Zorro rich billionaire by day, masked hero by night, mansion above lair, sleek black ride, secret entrance, dressed in black mask and cape, with the small cunning nocturnal survival animal-totem theme as inspiration.
And dropped Zorro into the then contemporary setting urban city, mobsters, racketeering, story of the Shadow.

Both Shadow and Zorro are Pulp-Heroes or proto-Superheroes. In as much as the term Superhero wasn't quite in great popular use to describe this type yet. ...until after Superman.

Also those quantifying Superhero as needing to have Superpowers, are wrong, as Batman and other "non-Superpowered" are included in Superhero.
So in that context you can retroactively qualify Zorro, as he has all the qualifications Batman has, and as many pointed out, helped inspire him.

 

[Breogan]

Baroness Orczy's 'The Scarlet Pimpernel.... featured the first use of the idea of a secret identity in fiction.

Dumas' The Count of Monte Cristo, predates him, and is pretty much the original seen as hapless guy, to completely "reinvent" himself with a new secret identity as a hero, insane wealth and mansion, comes back in his new id to wreak vengeance on the society that wronged him.
Before the Pimpernell, before Zorro, and of course before Batman.

Big difference is, Pimpernel helped the rich aristocracy like himself, "Zorro was a servant of the people".
Although there's no denying the influence the biggest difference was, there wasn't an actual recognizable costumed Pimpernel ID, he'd just have disguises, dressed as an old man, a soldier, gypsy woman etc, and then left a card, but there wasn't an actual recognizable Pimpernel persona, a single recognizable masked caped "costume" identity you knew as the Pimpernel, this did not exist for the Pimpernel, the way it did for Zorro, and later iconic Superheroes.
It is this aspect (amongst others) that Zorro may have influenced the Superheroes.

 

[Parker Wayne]

If Batman is a superhero, then Zorro is one also.

 

[Breogan]

No. Great and heroic as he is, he lacks a costume of tights. I don't know if you've noticed it but all the undisputed superheroes have 1 thing in common: a costume of tights.

Love that "costume of tights" Banner slips into when he becomes Hulk, or the suit made of tights Iron-Man wears.
You need to rethink your criteria- Black Knight, Golden age Crimson Avenger, Sandman, Vigilante, and to many modern superheroes wearing street clothes and trench coats to name etc...

No......
Zorro has a mask, a cape and black clothing.

Just because you qualify what he wears as clothing, it's still a separate disguise/costume he uses only when he's Zorro. No he doesn't dress up as a giant fox, or have big fox ears, or a tail on his costume, but he does wear specific gear he only wears as Zorro, as opposed to his regular Diego DeLa Vega everyday clothes.

 

[Mightmitenot]

Costumed secret ID, state of the art martial artist (fencing and horse acrobatics) polyglot education.

Yep. A super a hero as a more or less law abiding Punisher.

 

[Breogan]

Not really kno. A swordsman would not be able to take on Clayface; Maybe Poison Ivy if he got close enough.

So what you're saying is you kno nothing about Zorro, if you think all he uses is a sword.

He's got a "utility-belt" and saddle full of gadgets.

As for taking out clay-face.
Daggers to they eyes - flaming kerosene soaked arrow to the heart and torches body, - blows his panicked brains out with pistol, - glycerine and black powder grenade splatter him to tiny bits, - bullwhip lassos water-tower, Tornado(horse) pulls it down, and ...flushes clay-man into the pacific.

As for Ivy, if he doesn't seduce her himself, Zorro spent part of his upbring among his shamen grandmother's tribe, probably knows about and has spent more time in and among nature, than Ivy ever did.
Part of his initiation as a kid was a vision quest to seek out his animal spirit guide, doped up on "herbs" and left alone in the wilderness to survive, the vision of a small cunning black fox guides him to survival (hence the name he takes), and inevitably the same cave, he connects to his hacienda. He is a expert in herbs and natural venoms, hallucinogens and poisons.

Batman's rogue gallery is clearly full of super-powered villains, and only super heroes can take down super villains.

Unlike Batman, Zorro sticks exclusively to fighting normal human beings. Bats likes to beat on aliens, demons and robots every alternate week-end. That's why Batman is a Super-Hero and Zorro is a very good but basic hero.

Check out WBs Adventures of Zorro.

He fights all kinds of supernatural and powered villains, form werebeast, to giant aztec serpent gods, to transforming windigo types, against villains with steampunk gadgetry and weapons, etc.. to the supernatural ghost like demonic Anti-Zorro above.
His grandmother is a native shamen (White-Owl) who gives him an amulet with which he can channel the "powers" and cunning of his animal-totem ..the fox!

Also as was pointed out by DarthRekal Batman's most iconic villains are non superpowered.

...Joker??? doesnt have super powers..hes just crazy... catwoman?? an overrated gymnast...penguin??? a highly intelligent little person.... riddler??? a maniacal prankster..... very normal stuff just deranged...

 

[Breogan]

Zorro also never really fought villains, just evil spanish governors and soldiers.

So what you are saying is you know one Zorro story?
Zorro fights: soldiers, pirates, hostile indians. rustlers, highwaymen, slave-runners, outlaw posses, bandidos, a black clad impersonator, an anti-Zorro the original Ghost-Rider type a guy & horse covered top to bottom with white fosforcense (inspired original ghost-rider, and the supernatural one above), a female counterpart, samurai, ninja, and to many more to name.

He also did have "recurring" villains, similar to Batman particularly his most iconic and original antagonist whose face is scarred for life, the Captain who blames Zorro for his disfigurement, and becomes crazy obsessed spending the rest of his life plotting and hunting him down. Only instead of his face scarred with a permanent grin. It's a horrible "Z" permanently scarred into his face, so all will know and shun him.

Another recurring villain is the pirate Bardosa, who becomes obsesed with Zorro who eventually he comes to respect and befriend.
Another goes by El Machete, whose severed sword arm, is replaced by a machete, yet can swap out amongst other things; swords, axe, hooks, metal-claws, to later reinvented with even steampunk gadgets.

What's funny is I don't even call him a Superhero, I prefer pulp-Hero or proto-Superhero since the term Superhero wasn't heavily coined yet., until after Superman. So if you want to argue semantics fine.
But some of the arguments here come from absolute ignorance of the character.

 

[jmc]

Semantics if you ask me.

 

[Shikamaru]

Costumes are not an indicator of the 'super' moniker.

I would argue they are. Otherwise any hero with any sort of special ability could be considered a superhero. Guys like Hitman and Neo from The Matrix would qualify as "superheroes". Almost every anime character would qualify as a superhero.

 

[John Locke]

Depends on who you ask. If you consider characters like the Punisher, Vigilante, or the Green Hornet superheroes then yes. If not then no.

 

[Breogan]

Zorro=Batman Minus the Money and Gadgets

Yet Zorro also has the money, and gadgets.
Access to the best of his time, and a few inventions of his own.

He's got a sprawling vineyard and rancho, huge hacienda atop a silver vein.
As for gadgets; Sword, main-gauche-dagger, throwing knives, pistol, bullwhip, bolas, black-powder explosives and glycerin (in glass pellet) bombs, smoke bombs, has used bow and arrow, flintlock rifle, crossbow, crossbow loaded grapple, herbs, poisons, hallucinogens, knock out pellets, etc...

For Vehicle, he's got the most versatile, on or off road, can outrun anything in the land, jump chasms, barricades, effortlessly maneuver through heavily wooded areas, safely through crowds, or stealth arriving unnoticed, and is "remote" controlled ie - at a distance answers and takes specific commands - to whistles = Tornado!