Action-Adventure Disney's Zorro and the New World Zorro

[Immortalfire]

I've always been a Zorro fan, and I loved watching it on the old Family Channel back in the day, great show!

 

[Breogan]

Not conclusive as you said, but it's still much more than I have read.
By the way, do you consider "Mysteryous Don Miguel" a novel or a short story?

LOL! I don’t know? Masters Edition describes Mysteryous Don Miguel (1935)as a “Novelette”, whatever that is? A short Novel . It’s several chapters published across two issues of Argosy, whose cover blurb introduced it as “Zorro returns in a Novel by McCulley…”
So you can choose what to call it.

The point I was trying to make, is that it's impossible to survive having your heart run through, so the only possibility is that Zorro was mistaken when he thought that he HAD ran Ramon through the heart. What I was wondering is how could Zorro make that wrong assumption if no blood came out of Ramon's body. But maybe it will be clear once I get a chance to read .

Yeah again you might be making some assumptions, how he survived to appear in Further Adventures, won’t be clear, or explained. Like I said you have to role with it, you can imagine what you want. Or be disappointed. Either way he survived! And he's got a wicked "Z" scar across his face between the eyes And he's out to kill Zorro!

It makes sense,
though I don't understand what you mean by "Others never believed to begin with".

From the start you seemed to be assuming “everyone” knows. Who this “everyone” is I don’t know?. Characters come and go.
Further your assumption appears to be that this “everyone” who knows, must also include any new characters who appears in any new story. These people (new characters) if they suspect at all would only know second hand, and would need proof. There are also those (some of the Dons, even Gonzalez) who protect his identity.
Since he's being hunted again, knowing who he is has become a liability for some.
Also not “everyone” was there at the reveal, some would never have a reason to believe he was Zorro, and new characters would certainly doubt it, adding further confusion as he maintains the façade.
Even those who were once convinced, he can trick them into having doubt!
As you read, you realize there is no across the board “everyone knew he was Zorro”, it’s more nuanced to each story , and character as they are introduced.

I was suggesting that Diego had to convince people that he was not Zorro which is the same thing that you wrote.

To be clear first he had to convince people he was not the fake Zorro, for that he must ride again as Zorro.
And inevitably he has to convince others he is not the real Zorro either. Is that clear? LOL I'm laughing at my own inept inability to describe this after several times, forgive me.

My assumptions were only a way to ask you some questions. Please relax a bit , I am not determined to be unsatisfied with these stories. Quite the opposite, I have enjoyed "The Curse of Capistrano", and I feel I would also enjoy the rest of McCulley's stories.

I think you will enjoy them too, but based on some of the questions, it seems you have some firm assumptions that things might have to go or be explained a certain way to be viable, that from what I’ve read, might disappoint you when you see how they are answered (or in some cases not answered) in the story.
I get it, allot of this "info", although it is fun to talk about for me and it seems for you as well, I was curious about several of the same things you asked, especially in establishing a bit of a chronology of what happened or was developed and where. I just fear having the info told, isn't particularly going to make the stories more fun to read.

Really useful info, thanks!

I can apparently talk about them endlessly. It's my pleasure.

Also, can you tell me if the duel between the real Zorro and the copycat Zorro happened in front of many people?

Which duel? There isn't just one.
They had many.
Another big spoiler I guess.
The impostor Zorro is Captain Rocha himself the Son of the previous Governor who Zorro ran out of town. In their first duel Zorro marks him determined to prove he is the impostor. Later he extracts a confession from him (when they are alone). Later he traps him with the help of the Cocapah who unmask him. And later he publicly exposes him as an impostor where they have their final duel.

I don't know how many other examples are there. I know "Zorro Saves A Friend" is the title of both a McCulley story and a Disney episode, but the plots are very different. However, the plot of McCulley's story reminds me of the episode "Death Stacks the Deck". I also know "Zorro Fights A Duel" is the title of both a McCulley story and a Disney episode, and although the plots have many differences, they both involve someone publicly challenging Zorro to a duel by calling him a coward. Of course, McCulley's Esteban Sanchez is a one-shot character who is a killer, while Disney recreated this episode as the third of Don Ricardo del Amo's 4-episode arc, and Ricardo is not a bad guy even though he challenges Zorro.

I’m sure there was some McCulley influence.
In skimming some of the stories again, to answer some of your questions. I’m finding more parallels, again it’s been a while since I watched the full Disney eps. But Zorro saves a friend(1932) does immediately reminded me of a Disney episode, where Zorro protects a friend who has been swindled by a gambler and is losing his land.
And Zorro Hunts a Jackal(1933) reminded me of an episode where Zorro haunts and terrifies the soldiers, making them believe the place is haunted. Another where the Capitan hires an expert swordsman to lure out Zorro seemed familiar, and where a young man accused of murder seeks refuge in the Mission, until Zorro can prove his innocence.
There seem to be several repeating themes.
I would guess they may have been mining both McCulley’s stories, and McCully himself for ideas.

So you think you can play this guy?
\

I love these staged publicity images with McCulley (pic edited, I think it was originally Power in the frame)

Also, I didn't suggest Bernardo was the most significant character in McCulley's stories. However, in one story I found the line "I have instructed Bernardo to have everything ready." and I wonder how Bernardo was instructed. And according to this summary of "Zorro Saves a Herd"...

This is a common description, he often gives Bernardo instructions, and it is often Bernardo who preps and brings him his horse and gear.
How he describes what he needs to someone who can't hear? I guess Diego makes himself understood, again this isn’t something you might find a definitive explanation for, could be him doing the sign language. LOL! Imagine what you want. I think there was also later a reference to a small writing board, but that requires even more explanation why it wasn't mentioned from the start, or if it's not always there.
In the end you know he made himself understood.

And you are right that most people are not aware of José and Bardoso, as I was one of the people who didn't learn about them until recently.
Thanks for the explanations about Barbados/Bardoso ("Zorro Rides Again" was published 9 years after "The Further Adventures of Zorro", so McCulley could have forgotten the name) and José.

I does look like after the first few stories/novels they were somewhat fazed out, but like I said haven’t read them all. I wish they had been represented in other media.
Another detail, José rides a spotted horse, also he considers Diego a blood Brother.
I do love both him and the Pirate Bardoso as characters, they were some of the better developed secondary characters and allies.
José, leader of his tribe, was not a servant but an ally, was much more noble and independent character with his own motives. And the constant presence of a pirate who hung out in the seedier sides, really set it in a more swashbuckler atmosphere. He wished Zorro had been a Pirate with him, and believes they would have ruled the seas together.

If I remember correctly at Disney Land going through the Pirates ride and area, you transition towards Frontier Land, where there is a Rancho del Zocalo which is pretty much the perfect transition time and place for Zorro! From ---> Pirates ---> to Cali. Western
...He'd have a foot in both those "lands".
If he would ever appear at Disney again.

As for Disney's Garcia, from what I have read I agree with you that he may be a fusion between Gonzales and McCulley's Garcia. I don't know when Garcia made his debut, but I know he appears in at least four stories: "Zorro Draws A Blade" (1944), "Zorro Opens A Cage" (1945), "Zorro Lays A Ghost" (1945), "Zorro Frees Some Slaves" (1946).

Like I said there was an Esteban Garcia first introduced in Rides Again(1931), although he was more analogous to the Captains. A new Gonzalez is introduced in Mysterious Don Miguel (1935) who is a bit more like Disney's Garcia. Then is somewhat re-imagined as a new Garcia who first shows up in Zorro Draws his Blade(1944), who seems more like the character that would become the Disney version. Although there are still differences, I'll se if I can find the first descriptions of him.

I guess it depends on our definition of "costume…

As long as people recognized him as Zorro and not a random bandit, and as long as people associated his clothes with his "activity", then I'd say we can call it a costume

I conceded I’m fine with the definition, MCulley himself referenced it as a costume.
For the record, there is a story where out of Los Angeles, Zorro shows up in a tavern, and those he confronts do mistake him for just “a random bandit. " It is only after he marks one with a Z do they realize that it is Zorro.
So they are familiar with him, although didn't recognize him as Zorro by what he wore, but only after he marks one.
So again not sure what you will make of that, if you seem to be looking for these definitive interpretations and lines drawn, you might not find them in the McCulley’s stories.

even though he didn't have fox ears or a Z on his chest. Incidentally, I dislike when Zorro carnival costumes have a Z on the clothes as much as I dislike when they are not all-black.

LOL I am so with you on that! It bugs me when they put a "Z" on the clothes, the chest, the belt, or on the hat too! You know why, because it makes it look like a “costume” ! t:

Do the stories also explain where he hides his black horse? Is the horse's hiding place in one of the underground secret passages like in the movies and tv series?

At least once they do take it with them into that cave of the old Indian sorceress, although I don't know if that's where he is kept.
In several cases it’s José, with who he earlier makes contact, and lets him know where and when he will need the Black (other times it’s Bernardo) . The implication is until then José keeps him hidden.
Where? In a hidden valley is described at least once or twice. In that cave? Doesn't always say.
Usually after designating a place and time to meet, he will secretly bring him there at the time , often hiding by a gulch or somewhere near, until he hears the secret call.
Also convenient, Zorro can return him their to José, who then proceeds to ride him off leading the soldiers astray. \

"Zorro sprang out of the saddle, and José of the Cocopahs sprang into it. The black started again, and again the ringing hoofs gave signal to those behind. Crouching in the brush, Zorro watched them ride furiously past chasing José, who had a way of losing them when he willed, and of caring for the black in a secret hiding place"

Other times, when at home, Bernardo has brought him from somewhere in the Vega estate.

You seem to be wondering if this was all ever consolidated into one single "lair" under the Hacienda, as per Fairbanks, and then Rides Again?
I don't know, maybe in later stories.
Another passage in Zorro Deals With Treason(1934), describes coming towards his Fathers Hacienda, going into a hut at the rear of the patio, then going through a tunnel that leads into the house.
So the set up is there, apears to be tunnels throughout, and acces to secret lairs, like a fox would have.

Ancestor? Did you mean "descendent",

Yes meant descendant, also in Rides Again serial the horse is the implied descendant of Zorro's original horse.

Trivia: in that 1937 serial, the picture of Don Diego is that of Douglas Fairbanks. It would be interesting to have a list of all the innovations to the Zorro mythos brought by Fairbanks.

I absolutely consider Fairbanks Zorro’s second father. The Argosy illustrator in the first and some later stories did not do the character justice, as McCulley was vague in some aspects, and allowed for interpretation, it is really Fairbanks that would come to define much of his look, then adapted by Power, and Disney.
As far as the mask specific, I’m fine with either the full mask or the half mask as being correct.
As some times when McCulley described it as a full mask, illustrators ignored it and used the Fairbanks style, other times when he left it vague, they used either the full mask or half.

By "vigilante" I mean someone who fights against bandits to ensure their capture because he thinks the authorities cannot catch them without his help.
By "freedom fighter" I mean someone who fight against the authorities because he believes they are oppressing the people.
Zorro is both a vigilante and a freedom fighter, but in "The Curse of Capistrano" he is only a freedom fighter (and a highwayman who steals from the rich to give to the poor, Robin Hood-style, something rarely kept in adaptations) and not a vigilante. That's why I was wondering which was the first McCulley story with Zorro as a vigilante.

Not sure if McCulley always or ever followed that firm distinction. And don’t particularly agree with the assessment that he is only a freedom fighter as you describe in Curse/Mask and not a vigilante too. My understanding is as I said he was both. Even in Curse/Mask, the implication is he has already been doing this for a while: Not just robbing the rich who have exploited the poor, but against anyone who has raised a hand against the Campesinos, Indians or the Freys.
I don't think there is one single place where he stops being one, then becomes the other, like the firm line you draw.
As far as stories, in Further Adventures he is up against Pirates, who sack, pillage the town, while at the same time trying to win back his kidnapped bride to be.
Is he Vigilante or Freedom Fighter there?
In Rides again, he his trying to clear his own name of atrocities falsley put on him, both secret and civilian identity.
Saves a Friend he is protecting a friend, who has been swindled by a notorious card shark.

So, you have answered all my questions except one: in which story do Diego and Lolita mary, and in which story (and of which cause) does Lolita die? I don't mind spoilers. Also, does Diego have other loves in subsequent stories?

I skipped it, cause I don't really know the answer.
In Mysterious Don Miguel(1935), a character called Carmelita arrives, and her father are guests at the Vega house, where it's whispered she is meant to be married to Diego if he takes a liking to her. And Diego seems fine with the prospect.
No mention is made of Lolita Pulido here, who have already been absent for several stories.
I believe I read all of the stories except one up till there, Zorro Hunts by Night(1940), so if her departure and death happened, it may have happened there ?
But I remember reading a summery of The Sign of Zorro(1941) (which comes right after), and they seem to have made mention of that there.
So yeah, I personally don't know where that was described. Never read it myself.
I would love to know as well.

^
Interesting to note, as far as cover image, at this point Argosy had from then on standardized their covers, and had a regular occurring image of Zorro on them (maybe based on Power), representation that used the half mask.

 

[Breogan]

Continued .....

A couple of random observations you might appreciate:
-Age: McCulley describes Diego as being about 25yo in Zorro Saves a Friend(1932)
-Father: Was about that age when he settled in California, made fortune off wine and ranching, cattle. Mysterious Don Miguel(1935)
-Voice: Diego changes his voice when he is Zorro (not surprising), described in MDM(1935)
-The Black's speed: Yes the horse is referred to as the black. Speed: Zorro will intentionally ride him "just beyond pistol range", to lure soldiers away keep them in pursuit, then easily breaks away when he wants to lose them. Draws His Blade(1944)
-Religion: He does not take killing lightly or without guilt, when he does seeks absolution from the Frey. ZDHB(1944)
-Pistol-Yes he uses one! And he's as good with it as he is with a sword. It's a regular part of his arsenal. A common reminder- "Remember señores, I have eyes in the back of my head, and I am as good with a pistol as I am with the blade"

Great video! Even though the 1919 novel is mistakenly called "The Curse of THE Capistrano".

I am a little skeptical about all these "revelations" that "Zorro is 100% based on this historical character", with the historical character changing every time depending on who is telling the story: Joaquin Murrieta, Salomon Pico, Manuel Rodríguez Erdoíza, Tiburcio Vasquez, William Lamport, Estanislao, etc. The Murrieta case is particularly annoying since I can't find any pre-1998 source that compared Zorro to him or vice versa, but after the 1998 movie showed Murrieta's fictional brother succeeding Don Diego as Zorro everybody acted like Zorro being based on Murrieta had been common knowledge for decades. I don't think McCulley ever publicly discussed the creation of Zorro, in which case every speculation should be presented as a speculation rather than a fact.

I did say "may" have inspired, never implied it was "100% based on him" , was posting it as a curiosity after the more fun Disney one. He definitely influenced the Spielberg/Amblin version of the character.
I agree with you completley, the vid and others, should be taken with caution as to what actually inspired McCulley, the wikipedia is also full of statements of historical and fictional characters, declared as "the" inspiration for Zorro.
Al of them should be taken with a grain of salt.

Actually, I'm from Italy,

I grew up reading some Emilio Salgari, particularly Sandokan & the Black Corsair two spectacular antecedents to Zorro.

Tornado, the best horse ever! That matte painting was a great visual effect;

other matte paintings created more substantial spaces, or made some places seem more dangerous, or made us believe that the de la Vega hacienda was an outside location while in fact it was built inside a soundstage:

This, when I realized it came as big surprise, but not surprisingly both inside and out in the courtyard and balconies is where a large part of the stories and set up occurred, so it makes since it would be in a sound-stage, great image above!

Trying to take out a candle flame !
https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/13423398_1043079429113718_125060530_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI3MTUxNzY4MDE5MzEyNTE3Mw==.2&se=6

Another great old Zorro site- modeled the entire Hacienda in 3D, full of visual references. - Hacienda 3D - Zorro
This is a true fan, I love it.

And an actual model, small soldier scale - Zorro

Even this gif you made from episode 2x20...

He uses the vintage Marx and Dulcop Zorro character figures to fill it up with action!

... is a special effect: that is the usual stock footage from the ending of episode 1, edited to add the rain and the lightning strikes.

LOL the animated rain and lightning! Similarly the lightning from the opening credits, which becomes a "Z" :

Speaking of lists: since you mentioned Batman, can you explain how the Zorro movie seen by young Bruce changes from one version to the other in various retellings? And do you know all the Zorro references present in the various Batman comics?

This will be fun. I've actually collected (by no means conclusive) several of the instances and images where Zorro is referenced in Batman comics and in Animation. Check back after a few edits, as I try and collect them chronologically here.
Starting with Miller who in both DKR and Year One, as far as I know was the first to directly reference Zorro as the film they saw that fateful night.
Although, a while ago someone made reference to an old 70s DC comics column called Ask the Answer Man", by Editor Bob Rozakis, where he would reply to readers random fun trivia questions.
One questions was apparently what was the movie the Wayne's saw?
And it's him who first suggested it was Zorro.
I e-mailed, asking if he remembered this and in what issues or dates it appeared, he said he very well could have, but hadn't archived the columns so couldn't tell me where.
So somewhere, might be the issue, where it's first referenced.

 

[Breogan]

For the record, they could, just as well do the same with the Phantom or The Shadow, just as significant IMHO.
Just that Zorro was an actual movie, so it worked for the movie they saw that night and as the in-story inspiration. Also this is a Zorro thread:

Putting them in spoilers so they don't overwhelm the Disney /New World Zorro specific TV theme of the thread.

Spoiler

A few quotes about the actual movie and actor that may have been an influence:

Bill Finger - "Batman was a combination of Douglas Fairbanks [who played Zorro] and Sherlock Holmes."

Bob Kane -"Zorros use of a mask to conceal his identity as Don Diego gave me the idea of giving Batman a secret identityBruce Wayne would be a man of means who put on a façade of being effete. Zorro rode a black horse called Tornado and would enter a cave and exit from a grandfather clock in the living room. The bat-cave was inspired by this cave in Zorro. I didn't want Batman to be a Superhero with superpowersSo I made Batman an ordinary human being; he is just an athlete who has the physical prowess of Douglas Fairbanks, Sr., who was my all-time favorite hero in the movies.

1986 Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Frank Miller (he went with Tyrone Power, which was probably more prevalent in his youth), and that for the most part is what has stuck.

1987 Batman Year One: issues #404407 Frank Miller / David Mazzuchelli

1991 Batman #459 Alan Grant / Norm Breyfogle

 

[C. Lee]

I've always been a Zorro fan, and I loved watching it on the old Family Channel back in the day, great show!

I have all of those plus the Douglas Fairbanks movies (THE MARK OF ZORRO and DON Q SON OF ZORRO), Alain Delon's, Frank Langella's, Guy Stockwell's movies, ZORRO'S BLACK WHIP, and ZORRO RIDES AGAIN.

 

[Breogan]

Continued ....

Spoiler

1990- World’s Finest (mini-series) Dave Gibbons / Steve Rude

1996 Batman Chronicles #5 John Ostrander / Brian Stelfreeze

2003- Batman Adventures: Vol.2 #1 Ty Templeton / Rick Burchett

2005- All Star Batman and Robin Frank Miller / Jim Lee

2011- Batman and Robin #20 Peter Tomasi / Patrick Gleason

2008- Batman #681 Grant Morrison Tony Daniel

2000- Batman Ego, Darwyn Cooke

2002- Batman #608 Jeph Loeb / Jim Lee

 

[Breogan]

Spoiler

Batman Year Zero Snyder and Capullo

2001 Batman #595 Ed Brubaker / Scott McDaniel

New 52

2015 Batman – Earth One Geoff Johns / Gary Frank

 

[Breogan]

Spoiler

19901993 Zorro Ep. The Wizard
Hypothetical ancestor of Wayne, actually shows up in Zorro.

(not exact dialogue)

2004- JLU S1 E2 For the Man Who Has Everything J.M. Dematteis Org Story: Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons

2010 Batman: The Brave and the Bold E37 "Chill of the Night! Michael Chang / Paul Dini

Batman Forever:

2016 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice,
Batman branding criminals. Marquis and poster.

I'll attempt to get these all labeled and edited in chronological order

Edit:

Spoiler

Batman: Curse of the White Knight

The premise is revisited and exploited in Jokers War Batman V3 #95 -100

Joker taking over Gotham, attempts to perpetuate a cycle of tragedies in the mold of Batman's origin, using a trigger command subliminally in his twisted remake of the Mark of Zorro he calls the "Gotham Cut".

Batman under the effects of toxins is triggered by the memory...

Returns to the Monarch unsure what is a hallucination or reality ....

 

[El Zorro]

Finally I have time to answer.

LOL! I don’t know? Masters Edition describes Mysteryous Don Miguel (1935)as a “Novelette”, whatever that is? A short Novel . It’s several chapters published acroanswess two issues of Argosy, whose cover blurb introduced it as “Zorro returns in a Novel by McCulley…”
So you can choose what to call it.

A novelette is a tale shorter than a novel but longer than a short story. However, there are no fxed rules that tells you if a tale is a novel, novelette, or sort story based on the word count. I'll assume it's a novel for simplicity's sake.

Yeah again you might be making some assumptions, how he survived to appear in Further Adventures, won’t be clear, or explained. Like I said you have to role with it, you can imagine what you want. Or be disappointed. Either way he survived! And he's got a wicked "Z" scar across his face between the eyes And he's out to kill Zorro!

I get it, it won't be explained, so I'll read the novel (when I find it) with that in mind and avoid being disappointed. This way I'll only concentrate about eh current plot.

To be clear first he had to convince people he was not the fake Zorro, for that he must ride again as Zorro.
And inevitably he has to convince others he is not the real Zorro either. Is that clear? LOL I'm laughing at my own inept inability to describe this after several times, forgive me.

Don't worry, you explained it pretty clearly, and I understood what you said. The missing piece of the puzzle was the presence of multiple fights, and now I also get that.

I think you will enjoy them too, but based on some of the questions, it seems you have some firm assumptions that things might have to go or be explained a certain way to be viable, that from what I’ve read, might disappoint you when you see how they are answered (or in some cases not answered) in the story.
I get it, allot of this "info", although it is fun to talk about for me and it seems for you as well, I was curious about several of the same things you asked, especially in establishing a bit of a chronology of what happened or was developed and where. I just fear having the info told, isn't particularly going to make the stories more fun to read.

So the best way is to ignore these missing explanations, and hopefully one can fully enjoy the stories this way.

I can apparently talk about them endlessly. It's my pleasure.

It's good to have someone with whom discuss these things.

In skimming some of the stories again, to answer some of your questions. I’m finding more parallels, again it’s been a while since I watched the full Disney eps. But Zorro saves a friend(1932) does immediately reminded me of a Disney episode, where Zorro protects a friend who has been swindled by a gambler and is losing his land.

As I said, the Disney episode is "Death Stacks the Deck"

And Zorro Hunts a Jackal(1933) reminded me of an episode where Zorro haunts and terrifies the soldiers, making them believe the place is haunted.

Are you referring to "The Ghost of the Mission"?

Another where the Capitan hires an expert swordsman to lure out Zorro seemed familiar, and where a young man accused of murder seeks refuge in the Mission, until Zorro can prove his innocence.

This reminds me of the Don Nacho Torres storyline at the beginning of the series.

So you think you can play this guy?

I love these staged publicity images with McCulley (pic edited, I think it was originally Power in the frame)

This is an the same image I found online, but with the picture of Power:

I am not sure which image is the real one. And here is a similar image, again with Power in the picture:

Speaking of pictures, here is the uncut version of a photo you previously posted here:

I don't know who is the man on the right.

TO BE CONTINUED

 

[El Zorro]

IT CONTINUES FROM MY LAST MESSAGE; SORRY FOR THE LONG DELAY.

This is a common description, he often gives Bernardo instructions, and it is often Bernardo who preps and brings him his horse and gear.
How he describes what he needs to someone who can't hear? I guess Diego makes himself understood, again this isn’t something you might find a definitive explanation for, could be him doing the sign language. LOL! Imagine what you want. I think there was also later a reference to a small writing board, but that requires even more explanation why it wasn't mentioned from the start, or if it's not always there.
In the end you know he made himself understood.

Good to see that Bernardo has a bigger role in later works than in "The Curse of Capistrano". And while this seems to contradict the original claim that Bernardo cannot understand sign language, I think the change is for the better.

Like I said there was an Esteban Garcia first introduced in Rides Again(1931), although he was more analogous to the Captains. A new Gonzalez is introduced in Mysterious Don Miguel (1935) who is a bit more like Disney's Garcia. Then is somewhat re-imagined as a new Garcia who first shows up in Zorro Draws his Blade(1944), who seems more like the character that would become the Disney version. Although there are still differences, I'll se if I can find the first descriptions of him.

This confirms my idea about the origin of Disney's Garcia.

I conceded I’m fine with the definition, MCulley himself referenced it as a costume.
For the record, there is a story where out of Los Angeles, Zorro shows up in a tavern, and those he confronts do mistake him for just “a random bandit. " It is only after he marks one with a Z do they realize that it is Zorro.
So they are familiar with him, although didn't recognize him as Zorro by what he wore, but only after he marks one.
So again not sure what you will make of that, if you seem to be looking for these definitive interpretations and lines drawn, you might not find them in the McCulley’s stories.

Well, you said the scene in question takes place OUTSIDE Los Angeles, so maybe that's the reason why they thought he was a random bandit. I think people from Los Angeles do recognize him as Zorro, isn't it true?

LOL I am so with you on that! It bugs me when they put a "Z" on the clothes, the chest, the belt, or on the hat too! You know why, because it makes it look like a “costume” ! t:

I agree with you, not because it makes it look like a costume but because it doesn't match any of the offical portrayals of how the character dresses. Indeed, the Zorro costume I wore as a kid for Carnival was all-black and had no Z, and that's because I wanted it that way. Everyone else had some Z on the clothes and/or part of the clothes were of another color.

At least once they do take it with them into that cave of the old Indian sorceress, although I don't know if that's where he is kept.
In several cases it’s José, with who he earlier makes contact, and lets him know where and when he will need the Black (other times it’s Bernardo) . The implication is until then José keeps him hidden.
Where? In a hidden valley is described at least once or twice. In that cave? Doesn't always say.
Usually after designating a place and time to meet, he will secretly bring him there at the time , often hiding by a gulch or somewhere near, until he hears the secret call.
Also convenient, Zorro can return him their to José, who then proceeds to ride him off leading the soldiers astray. \

"Zorro sprang out of the saddle, and José of the Cocopahs sprang into it. The black started again, and again the ringing hoofs gave signal to those behind. Crouching in the brush, Zorro watched them ride furiously past chasing José, who had a way of losing them when he willed, and of caring for the black in a secret hiding place"

Other times, when at home, Bernardo has brought him from somewhere in the Vega estate.

You seem to be wondering if this was all ever consolidated into one single "lair" under the Hacienda, as per Fairbanks, and then Rides Again?
I don't know, maybe in later stories.
Another passage in Zorro Deals With Treason(1934), describes coming towards his Fathers Hacienda, going into a hut at the rear of the patio, then going through a tunnel that leads into the house.
So the set up is there, apears to be tunnels throughout, and acces to secret lairs, like a fox would have.

Good to see that the original stories also used secret passages. Hopefully I will learn more details about this.

I absolutely consider Fairbanks Zorro’s second father.

Innovations to the Zorro mythos introduced by Fairbanks are, hoping there are few or no mistakes in the following list:
*the distinctive costume;
*the moustaches, even if they are fake here;
the fact that Zorro is sometimes called that instead of always being Señor Zorro;
*popularization of the Z motif, though unlike what some sources say it wasn't invented for the film but was already present in the first novel. Plus, in the film he also uses it on objects and people's clothes, not just people's faces;
*Zorro being an acrobat, a parkour artist we could say;
*Zorro outwitting/defeating countless soldiers at the same time;
*Zorro learning swordsmanship in Spain, though him being summoned home from Spain didn't originate until Power;
*secret pssage/hidden hideout for the horse;
*horse being black;
*Bernardo not being deaf;
*Bernardo knowing Zorro's secret identity
*Diego living with his father;
*Zorro disguising himself as a priest;
*Zorro laughing while fighting.

As some times when McCulley described it as a full mask, illustrators ignored it and used the Fairbanks style, other times when he left it vague, they used either the full mask or half.

So, there's no proof of McCulley ever describing a half-face mask in his text, right?

Not sure if McCulley always or ever followed that firm distinction. And don’t particularly agree with the assessment that he is only a freedom fighter as you describe in Curse/Mask and not a vigilante too. My understanding is as I said he was both. Even in Curse/Mask, the implication is he has already been doing this for a while: Not just robbing the rich who have exploited the poor, but against anyone who has raised a hand against the Campesinos, Indians or the Freys.
I don't think there is one single place where he stops being one, then becomes the other, like the firm line you draw.
As far as stories, in Further Adventures he is up against Pirates, who sack, pillage the town, while at the same time trying to win back his kidnapped bride to be.
Is he Vigilante or Freedom Fighter there?
In Rides again, he his trying to clear his own name of atrocities falsley put on him, both secret and civilian identity.
Saves a Friend he is protecting a friend, who has been swindled by a notorious card shark.

You have a good point about the distinction between vigilante and freedom fighter is not always that evident, and the lines often blur.

A couple of random observations you might appreciate:
-Age: McCulley describes Diego as being about 25yo in Zorro Saves a Friend(1932)

This matches "The Curse of Capistrano", in which Diego is described as "a fair youth of excellent blood and twenty-four years".

-Voice: Diego changes his voice when he is Zorro (not surprising), described in MDM(1935)

Once again, this matches "The Curse of Capistrano".

I did say "may" have inspired, never implied it was "100% based on him" , was posting it as a curiosity after the more fun Disney one. He definitely influenced the Spielberg/Amblin version of the character.
I agree with you completley, the vid and others, should be taken with caution as to what actually inspired McCulley, the wikipedia is also full of statements of historical and fictional characters, declared as "the" inspiration for Zorro.
Al of them should be taken with a grain of salt.

True, you did say that, in fact my comment was directed to other people who avoid saying "may" and treat it as a proven fact. By the way, I have to rectify something. I previously said "I can't find any pre-1998 source that compared Zorro to him [Murrieta] or vice versa". Now I have found at least one example: the 1991 book "The Legend of Zorro" by Bill Yenne wrote "McCulley may have drawn inspiration from a number of California legends, including contemporaries of the infamous bandito Joaquin Murieta (1830-1853)". Of course it's only speculation, but it's a pre-1998 speculation, and that's why I thought I had to rectify my previous text. Incidentally, I like how the author used "may".

I grew up reading some Emilio Salgari, particularly Sandokan & the Black Corsair two spectacular antecedents to Zorro.

I am glad you like Italian works. By the way, Disney's Zorro is still ofter reaired on Italian TV. At the moment it's aired every Sunday morning on Rai 3, one of the main channels. Four days ago they aired episode 1x14, after a hiatus of few weeks due to holidays. Occasionally the series airs on late afternoon, or on evening, before diner time, or pre-prime time. I think it's probbly the only show that old that is still reaired on mainstream channels. How about the USA? Is the series still reaired sometimes?

This, when I realized it came as big surprise, but not surprisingly both inside and out in the courtyard and balconies is where a large part of the stories and set up occurred, so it makes since it would be in a sound-stage, great image above!

Trivia: the de la Vega hacienda set was often redressed to appear as other people's hacienda, or as other buildings. On the other hand, the cuartel, tavern, church, etc. weere not soundstages but permanent exteriors on the Disney back lot. Sadly, they were later destroyed.
The Zorro locations, both in the soundstage and in the back lot, also appeared in other Disney productions.

Another great old Zorro site- modeled the entire Hacienda in 3D, full of visual references. - Hacienda 3D - Zorro
This is a true fan, I love it.

And an actual model, small soldier scale - Zorro

I knew about these, interesting websites! Of course, they had to make guesses, since in real life they didn't build a full house inside the soundstage. Note how other buildings occasionally stood in for the hacienda: for example, the back of the tavern often doubled for the back of the hacienda.


Thanks for all the info about the Zorro-Batman connection. I'll examine it when I have more time.

1990–1993 Zorro Ep. The Wizard
Hypothetical ancestor of Wayne, actually shows up in Zorro.

(not exact dialogue)

For the record, Zorro says "My apologies. But the location of this place must remain a secret", and then removes the blindfold. Dr. Wayne's reply is indeed "Incredible! A secret cave! How splendid!"

 

[El Zorro]

I have to update an old message of mine, and this includes two basic corrections.

We then cut to the entrance covered by greenery, with a stick to prevent Tornado from escaping. This location seems very similar to the East entrance seen from the inside, as shown in the YouTube video above, but I was told by an Iverson expert that the actual cave is not that large, meaning the location was recreated in the studio.

After another in-depth discussion with the same Iverson expert about three months ago, we came to the opposite conclusion: the two scenes set at the cave's back entrance seen from inside, like in the following shot...

were filmed in the actual cave rather than in a soundstage or another exterior location. Here is a recent image of the back entrance seen from inside:

I added a couple of circles to show the proof that they are the same place:

I wonder why did they bother to make it so similar to the real entrance which wouldn't even be shown in any scene, but a strong clue that this is indeed a studio location is Diego's ribbon, which is tidy again. This doesn't necessarily mean the scene was shown together with the scene in which he comes out of the tunnel, since Diego's ribbon is tidy most of the time. On the other hand, the scene with the messy ribbon is the only one which was shot at the actual cave, while the scene before it and the one after it were not.

That was one misleading clue. It's true that Diego's ribbon is untidy when he is on one end of the cave (not shown below), then tidy in both scenes where he is on the other end , then untidy again when he returns to the original position:

However, this doesn't prove that these two scenes were fimed in two different places. It only means the scenes were not shot in sequence, and the ribbon changed its position between the filming of one scene and that of the next one.

Diego and Bernardo then walk through the greenery and emerge outside:

I can't say for sure if the greenery shots from the inside and from the outside were shot at the same location, but it may be. The Iverson expert doesn't think the outside lcation is the actual East entrance of Zorro's Cave, and I think he is right because I noticed that there wouldn't be the space for all the greenery wall, which is longer in the video than in the two pictures above, and we don't even see where it ends.

Look at this video from film historian Bill Sasser, who died recently:



From 6:14 to 6:46 we see Zorro's Cave, and the still image that starts at 6:41 shows that there is no room for the greenery wall to continue at the left of the entrance, especially if you use the following two pictures to get an idea of the measures of the place compared to a human being:

We were also wrong about this. The following shots...

... were also filmed at the actual Zorro's Cave. For proof, see the following picture, which is the back of Zorro's Cave as it appears in 2014:

All three pictures have a yellow circle pointing to the same hole in the rock. There are some optical illusions at work here, since it looks bigger in the first image compared to the second, and it looks closer to the entrance in the first two pictures compared to the third. But the hole is definitely the same.
A distinctive vine has been outlined in light blue in the first two images to better compare them. Of course, the vine is fake like all the foliage covering the entrance.

So, if the greenery scenes above weren't filmed at the actual cave, where were they filmed? Maybe they were filmed at the Disney studio, and indeed this link...

The Mark of Zorro Johnston McCulley Forge Books @ Books and knowledge

... contains the following message from a certail Jamail:

"One of the highlights of my life was an employee tour of the Walt Disney Studio when I got to walk up to a bushy outgrowth on the perimeter of the studio property, which turned out to be the area where Zorro was filmed “emerging” from the cave on Toronado."

I tried contacting her for more details, but so far I have been unable to do so. Maybe someone else will know something about these employee tours.

I already explained wat's wrong with the question above.
The employee tour thing is still a mystery, though: how could a bushy outgrowth on the perimeter of the Disney studio property have been used as Zorro's Cave, since we know that they used a real cave at Iverson for episode 2 and a soundstage in episode 8? Unless in the latter they only used a soundstage for the inside, and a different location for the outside, but there's not definite proof for this. Of course, it's possible that the whole employee tour thing is a hoax.

JULY 2019 UPDATE: I HAVE SUCCEEDED IN CONTACTING HER. HERE IS HER ANSWER.

Back to Diego and Bernardo: after another camera cut/set switch, they leave the Sphinx/Harum Scarum Cluster/Old Yeller Tree area and are again in front of the greenery, which was probably at the Disney studio. They come back "inside", which is a studio shot, then the camera cuts to the West entrance, and Diego's ribbon is messy again, despite the fact that it was still tidy while he was at the fake entrance witht he greenery: another proof of the set switch.

As per what I said above: the changing ribbon doesn't prove anything, and we know now that there wasn't any set switch here.

 

[El Zorro]

I once discussed with Mondragon about whether or not McCulley worked on the Disney series; it all started with this message:

He was consultant on the Disney series, while there is some that I remember being similar, I don't know that any were direct remakes, but I have not read all the McCulley stories. And it's been a while since I re-watched all the Disney.

Here he is with two of his proud character creations!

I won't copy here all the subsequent messages by both of us, however yesterday I found an answer to this question.

On page 147 of Gerry Dooley's 2005 book "The Zorro Television Companion: A Critical Appreciation" there is a "Behind The Scenes" of episode 46, and we can read the following:

"Two days after this episode aired, Zorro creator Johnston McCulley died at age 75. Although McCulley did not contribute directly to the Disney series, he was a frequent visitor to the Disney lot. He was very impressed with the Zorro set and enjoyed sitting there for long periods of time reminiscing about past Zorro productions. McCulley and Guy Williams became fast friends, often discussing Zorro and the Disney treatment of it between takes. The author admired the fact that Williams handled his own fencing and overall seemed very impressed with the series."

 

[El Zorro]

Anyway, I also don't think the Eagle storyline comes from McCulley's stories, and I think I remember reading it was an idea by Walt Disney.

Errata corrige: I will now copy here a quote from Lowell Hawley, one of the show's writers, taken from page 85 of Dooley's book.

"Originally I was called in to write a couple of the first 13. Walt liked the ones I had written so at the end of those he wanted an outline of where the series was going and he put me and director Bob Stevenson in charge of working out a program. For the next 13 episodes I did a lot of research and found that California was far removed from Spain so we decided to have an idea with somebody else trying to take over the government. We brought in a character called the Eagle. I conceived the Eagle as a 'Little Mussolini'. He would be capable, shrewd and entirely unscrupulous; a man whose natural leadership ability had somehow been twisted to a truly villainous purpose. As I was telling Walt about it, he wasn't buying it, so I began to explain everything visually. And all of a sudden Walt's eyes sparkled and he said, 'Yeah, you could take a feather and cut it and hold up in front of a candle or a lantern and have a shadow on the wall.' When he thought about it visually, he liked the idea of the Eagle."

 

[Breogan]

Meant to post September 15
1933
Happy Birthday to Enrique (Henry) Tomás Delgado Jiménez (Darrow)
Who has a long history with Zorro on TV

Between the Disney Zorro, and New World Zorro (where he played an Alejandro de la Vega) , there was another great Zorro on TV, (no not Zorro and Son where he played an older Diego De la Vega, the less said about that one the better)
It was Filmation's New Adventures of Zorro.



And although Armando Catalano (interesting how many of these guys had to change their names to get work) was Latin by way ancestrally his name indicating someone Catalan(Spanish) to Italian.
Delgado Jiménez Darrow was actually the first Latino to play Zorro in an American production.

In fact the Filmation Zorro had almost an entirely Latino cast, which was pretty unique at the time, for a TV show.

Delgado Jiménez Darrow, lent his voice to this terrific cartoon.
Part of the Tarzan - Lone Ranger - Zorro Adventure Hour.
Zorro fans should check it out.

 

[Breogan]

I once discussed with Mondragon about whether or not McCulley worked on the Disney series; it all started with this message:

I won't copy here all the subsequent messages by both of us, however yesterday I found an answer to this question.

On page 147 of Gerry Dooley's 2005 book "The Zorro Television Companion: A Critical Appreciation" there is a "Behind The Scenes" of episode 46, and we can read the following:

"Two days after this episode aired, Zorro creator Johnston McCulley died at age 75. Although McCulley did not contribute directly to the Disney series, he was a frequent visitor to the Disney lot. He was very impressed with the Zorro set and enjoyed sitting there for long periods of time reminiscing about past Zorro productions. McCulley and Guy Williams became fast friends, often discussing Zorro and the Disney treatment of it between takes. The author admired the fact that Williams handled his own fencing and overall seemed very impressed with the series."

I do hope he got to see that first broadcast.
At least he had the pleasure of seeing it in production, and by Disney no less, must have been a great joy.
And seeing the wonderful cast take on the characters he created, and helped inspire.

Again I love this image of him with the cast. I guess he was 75 there,.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I thought we were getting a futuristic Zorro movie?

 

[Breogan]

I thought we were getting a futuristic Zorro movie?

I believe this thread is more for the TV versions.

There is a thread for Zorro movies in the Misc. Films forum - https://forums.superherohype.com/threads/zorro-reboot.368369/page-32

Keep in mind that thread "Zorro Reboot" if you go to the beginning did start about another film at one point in production, based on the Allende novel, which would have told the story of Zorro (Diego de la Vega's) Year-One type origin.
That reboot film, seems to have lapsed in production,
The thread has since become more about the futuristic legacy Zorro you ask about.
Although both reboot and the futuristic Zorro films are discussed there.

 

[Breogan]

"...we decided to have an idea with somebody else trying to take over the government. We brought in a character called the Eagle. I conceived the Eagle as a 'Little Mussolini'. He would be capable, shrewd and entirely unscrupulous; a man whose natural leadership ability had somehow been twisted to a truly villainous purpose. As I was telling Walt about it, he wasn't buying it, so I began to explain everything visually. And all of a sudden Walt's eyes sparkled and he said, 'Yeah, you could take a feather and cut it and hold up in front of a candle or a lantern and have a shadow on the wall.' When he thought about it visually, he liked the idea of the Eagle."

I loved the long running Eagle story line and build up to revealing the character, who was ruthless in his quest for power.
And yes the eagles feather was a great visual, tying things together as the story built to the climax.

Also unlike Monastario, (who was great by the way) The Eagle in the climax wore all white, to contrast Zorro's all in black, which lent to another great visual.
My only regret is of all the villains, Zorro never marks him, Although he does meet with a pretty well deserved end.

Spoiler

I have to wonder if besides Miller making the movie reference to Zorro as inspiration, the classic lightning strike silhouette, the Gotham reduced to the past and Batman needing to go out riding a black horse like his childhood hero, if Joker's all white suit wasn't yet another little homage.

And thanks fro the quotes form "Gerry Dooley's 2005 book "The Zorro Television Companion: A Critical Appreciation"
I wasn't familiar with it. Sounds like a great read and reference. Might pick it up.

 

[Breogan]

LOL! Look at all the little Zorros at Disneyland.

1957 - 1960 Vintage footage of Zorro Days at Disneyland:

Jump to 0:50

Lots more footage and POVs here particularly after 3:24
- id=Vccs_qOID6Y;t=204

Posted those ^1950's Zorro Days at Disneyland a while back
I guess these were the equivalent of what evolved into today's Star Wars days at Disney or the Indiana Jones stunt spectacular today or what was the Six-Flags Batman Stunt-Show

A more recent upload, a few different shots and much clearer footage,
It's got no sound, but you can launch this in another tab. "Theme from Zorro" performed by The Disneyland Band (August 22, 2015)


From the description -

" this film contains rare behind-the-scenes footage of the show’s characters in color. The film was shot by George Wilbern, who worked as a film editor ...

...To advertise “Zorro,” the cast made many public appearances at Disneyland. The performance in the home movie features key cast members, including Zorro (Guy Williams), Sergeant Garcia (Henry Calvin), Bernardo (Gene Sheldon) and Anna María Verdugo (Jolene Brand),

...It documents one of the cast’s last appearances at the park, which took place over Thanksgiving weekend in 1958. These live events were representative of Disney’s elaborate cross-promotional strategy at the time, which sought to drive television audiences to visit Disneyland and park attendees to watch the “Zorro” show. "

Not sure what's going on with licensing rights here?
As Disney no longer holds the rights to Zorro (although I wish they would get them back
I guess Mickey can dress as Zorro for Halloween at Disney?

So witch hat would you have chosen?

Merchandising..! cropped there is a kid also holding Zorro's gun.

Guy admiring the Disney merchandise...

Disney Archive building (middle left two windows full of Zorro memorabilia )

---------------
If there is any intrepid model builders?

Disney Fan Club Archives: article on the building of the Zorro set on the Burbank Walt Disney Studios backlot. The FIRST ever standing set at Disney Studios.
Scroll down - Everything You Need to Know About Movies Anywhere - Page 48 of 215 - D23

Scale model layout of the set.

An original blueprint sketch for Set

An original blueprint sketch showing design plans for the exterior Hacienda Plaza

blueprint sketch showing detailed plans for a stone fireplace (with secret compartment)

Tons more here

 

[Breogan]

Tornado and the other horses....

Great article on Diamond Decorator, and the other horses who played Tornado (who had his own doubles):
Midnight,
Rex,
and Ribbon.
Each trained for their own stunts.
- Flashback: The Horses of Zorro - Western Horseman

As well as King the white horse used extensively in the series as Monastario's noble white horse,
Don't know if he was ever given a character name on the series, but Rey would have been appropriate.

King would later play Zorro's other horse Phantom during the Monterey story-line.
Anyone curios about Zorro on a white horse?: Diego while traveling visits Monterey a coastal city of Alta California, a soldier charged with protecting a girl is killed, before he dies he bequeaths his fast white horse (and a call to avenge his death) to Diego, who then must become Zorro (yet Tornado is not available in Monterey),,, so he uses the white horse Phantom for the rest of the Monterey story arc.

He also had another horse he often rode into town on as Diego, a light haired, white footed palomino(?)
Anyone remember or know if this horse had a character name?

Filamtion and GabrielToys gave a similar horse with coloring to Amigo's horse Picaro

Spoiler

I guess he's the equivalent of Bruce Wayne's other car?

 

[El Zorro]

Meant to post September 15
1933
Happy Birthday to Enrique (Henry) Tomás Delgado Jiménez (Darrow)
Who has a long history with Zorro on TV

I'm a bit late, but... happy birthday to him! 85 years is an important age.

I found this intersting image online, with Duncan Regher, Henry Darrow and Guy Williams Jr. together, all holding a sword:

I think the image may come from the Memphis Film Festival of June 13-15, 2013.

Between the Disney Zorro, and New World Zorro (where he played an Alejandro de la Vega) , there was another great Zorro on TV, (no not Zorro and Son where he played an older Diego De la Vega, the less said about that one the better)

True, Darrow played Don Alejandro in the 1990 series, but only in seasons 2-3-4. In season 1, Don Alejandro was played by Efrem Zimbalist Jr.
And I agree that "Zorro and Son" was bad, though it is interesting from an historical point of view for being produced by Disney who also produced the 1957 series, for the fact that Guy Williams was asked to reprise his role, for the reuse of sets, costumes, and props, for the (adapted) opening theme, for the fact that it is the second of Darrow's three Zorro series, and for the involvement of Kevin Corcoran who as a child helped Walt introduce the 1957 series.

It was Filmation's New Adventures of Zorro.

I see that this series uses Tempest as the name of Zorro's black horse. In that case, we can say that the French animated series "Zorro: The Chronicles" (2015) paid homage to it, as I see that in addition to Tornado there is another black horse name Tempest in Zorro's secret cave, belonging to Diego's twin sister Ines.

I do hope he got to see that first broadcast.

Seeing that he was a fan of the series, I think he did. By the way, the whole first season plus the first 7 episodes of the second season aired while he was still alive.

I thought we were getting a futuristic Zorro movie?

There were some updates last February:
Casting roundup: The End of the World As We Know It and a Futuristic Zorro add actresses

For this location, I have found a behind the scenes picture:



I wonder if it's the same set as the underground of the de la Vega hacienda where the long tunnel starts. The archway is definitely similar:

And thanks fro the quotes form "Gerry Dooley's 2005 book "The Zorro Television Companion: A Critical Appreciation"
I wasn't familiar with it. Sounds like a great read and reference. Might pick it up.

To tell it all, I don't have the book, but I managed to trick Google into showing me so many snippets that I practically have most of it. Please let me know if you can find the book.

If there is any intrepid model builders?

Well, someone did build a model of the cuartel:

Disney Fan Club Archives: article on the building of the Zorro set on the Burbank Walt Disney Studios backlot. The FIRST ever standing set at Disney Studios.
Scroll down - Everything You Need to Know About Movies Anywhere - Page 48 of 215 - D23

I guess it wasn't always easy to film in the Zorro set without showing the huge water tank in the background:

The image above was taken during the production of the Monterey arc, in which the Los Angeles cuartel was redressed to be the Monterey market square.

Scale model layout of the set.

It's good, but also incomplete. For example, look at the buildings that I have called A, B, C and D in the composite picture below:

In the scale model I can see buildings A and B, but not C and D:

blueprint sketch showing detailed plans for a stone fireplace (with secret compartment)

Tons more here

I'm still trying to figure out how the secret passages work, since there are so many inconsistencies. For example, in the image below...

... we are supposed to believe that Diego's bedroom is upstairs, the tunnel leading to the cave is downstairs, and the cabinet entrance to the sala is to the right:



However, in the second season the cabinet entrance to the sala is one floor below:

There are other puzzling inconsistencies in the passages, but this one is the more obvious one.

The secret passages also appear in an episode of Disney's "The Swamp Fox":






The most interesting blueprint is probably the following one, showing an overview of the Zorro back lot:

Here is 50-second long clip of Walt Disney moving around the Zorro back lot, from the 1963 documentary "Hollywood Without Make-Up":



Hollywood Without Make-Up - Wikipedia

It's weird to see a car instead of horses in that place.

Tornado and the other horses....

I guess this comes from the promo for episode 2, with shows reversed footage compared to the episode. Also, we see high-tension poles, one of the biggest bloopers of the series. The matte painting used to simulate the canyon is great, though.

Tornado and the other horses....

Great article on Diamond Decorator, and the other horses who played Tornado (who had his own doubles):
Midnight,
Rex,
and Ribbon.
Each trained for their own stunts.
- Flashback: The Horses of Zorro - Western Horseman

As well as King the white horse used extensively in the series as Monastario's noble white horse,
Don't know if he was ever given a character name on the series, but Rey would have been appropriate.

Why Rey? Maybe because it means "king" in Spanish?

King would later play Zorro's other horse Phantom during the Monterey story-line.
Anyone curios about Zorro on a white horse?: Diego while traveling visits Monterey a coastal city of Alta California, a soldier charged with protecting a girl is killed, before he dies he bequeaths his fast white horse (and a call to avenge his death) to Diego, who then must become Zorro (yet Tornado is not available in Monterey),,, so he uses the white horse Phantom for the rest of the Monterey story arc.

He also had another horse he often rode into town on as Diego, a light haired, white footed palomino(?)
Anyone remember or know if this horse had a character name?

I don't think he has a name in the series, though a children's Zorro novel that I have read many years ago, not written by McCulley but loosely based on the Disney series, calle the horse Raton.

By the way, two of the pictures you posted above illustrate well how the back lot was redressed in the Monterey episodes to look a little bit different from the Los Angeles episodes.

The archway between the tavern and the building used for the Magistrado's house is the biggest difference in these shots.


I'll close with a funny image. We once had a discussion about McCulley's Zorro originally wearing a sombrero... and now we take a look at Guy Williams dressed as Zorro but with a sombrero, in a behind the scenes of the Annette Funicello episodes filmed at Vasquez Rocks:

 

[Breogan]

Diego's twin sister Ines.

Diego has a twin sister on that show?
Ok, that's a new twist.

I think he did. By the way, the whole first season plus the first 7 episodes of the second season aired while he was still alive.

That's good to know, didn't catch that part.

"Behind The Scenes" of episode 46, and we can read the following:

"Two days after this episode aired, Zorro creator Johnston McCulley died at age 75.. He was very impressed with the Zorro set and enjoyed sitting there for long periods of time reminiscing about past Zorro productions. McCulley and Guy Williams became fast friends, often discussing Zorro and the Disney treatment of it between takes. The author admired the fact that Williams handled his own fencing and overall seemed very impressed with the series."

Again good to hear. He really got to enjoy and share in Disney's take on his creation.

There were some updates last February:
Casting roundup: The End of the World As We Know It and a Futuristic Zorro add actresses

I think that was posted-
Zorro Reboot
Zorro Reboot

Well, someone did build a model of the cuartel:

That's some great work!
I believe the creator is Argentine, where Disney's Zorro keeps a strong following, seem to remember a youtube interview clip featuring him and his project..

I'm still trying to figure out how the secret passages work, since there are so many inconsistencies. For example, in the image below...

... we are supposed to believe that Diego's bedroom is upstairs, the tunnel leading to the cave is downstairs, and the cabinet entrance to the sala is to the right:

I never scrutinized it that much.
I guess it would be useful if you were building a diorama, or playset.
Let us know if you figure it out.
Or if on the next floor down there is a personal nuclear-reactor.

The De La Vega Hacienda site posted earlier -
De la Vega's Hacienda - Zorro
Seems to try to break it down by floor. -
Secret Passage 1 - Zorro

Great site full of possible layouts, and image refrance -
Secret Passage 1 - Zorro

shows reversed footage compared to the episode. Also, we see high-tension poles, one of the biggest bloopers of the series.

You sure those are high-tension poles, and not just a line of trees, the last two entangled.

As well as King the white horse used extensively in the series as Monastario's noble white horse,
Don't know if he was ever given a character name on the series, but Rey would have been appropriate.

Why Rey? Maybe because it means "king" in Spanish?

Yes exactly, why I suggested Rey, Spanish for King.
Capitán Monastario's white horse's real name was King.
Also seems like something the proud Comandante would call his nobel horse. (again just a suggestion, don't know if the Comandante's horse actually had a name on the show, that's just something I suggested)

FYI terrific custom Capitán Monastario figure. I'd post a link to the creator, but honestly don't know how to navigate printerest?

 

[El Zorro]

Diego has a twin sister on that show?
Ok, that's a new twist.

Yes, he does have a twin sister on that show. I haven't watched a full episode of the series yet, though, only small bits here and there while channel surfing on some minor RAI channels. Still, descriptions of the characters are easily found on many websites, as well as the full episodes themselves, in many languages.

I never scrutinized it that much.
I guess it would be useful if you were building a diorama, or playset.
Let us know if you figure it out.
Or if on the next floor down there is a personal nuclear-reactor.

I'll let you know if I figure something out, but I'm far from that. If this were a comic book or an animated series, the inconsistencies would be due to the hacienda not being a real place, but since this is a live-action series filmed with real actors moving in a physical location... I don't know what to say.

Note how the two pictures above were clearly taken in the same place. The cabinet entrance to the sala is to the right, and the two spiral staircases going up and down are in the background, though in the second picture we see only the one going down. Another strange thing is that in episode 2 the cabinet entrance seems to be closer to the spiral staircases, while later in the season, like in the clip above with Diego and Bernardo, it is a bit farther from there.

Anyway, in the second season the cabinet entrance to the sala has misteriously moved one floor down, with the tunnel's new placement unknown:

How is this possible? Maybe the soundstage location of the hacienda and the soundstage location of the secret passages are different, which would explain why some things may change between episodes, but I have several clues that these scenes were all filmed in the same place, so... I'm very confused. Some editing mistakes in the Governor vs Rebatos arc, however, are simply explained as just that: editing mistakes that only involve character being in wrong places, but don't affect the places themselves.

The specials, or "season 3", complicate things further, as the background near the cabinet entrance is different from both season 1 and 2, though now it's not on the floor below. Still, sometimes we see characters coming from the right, which seems to be an editing trick, and other times they come from the left even though the provenience should be the same.

By the way, it's a testament to the series' popularity that, less than a week ago, I heard a mention of Zorro's secret cabinet entrance in a casual discussion that wasn't related to Zorro at all.

The De La Vega Hacienda site posted earlier -
De la Vega's Hacienda - Zorro
Seems to try to break it down by floor. -
Secret Passage 1 - Zorro

It's an interesting piece of work that I already knew, but there seems to be a lot of guesswork not based on actual evidence. It also seems to work in-universe, showing rooms like bathrooms that would be there if this were a real house, but that I doubt that were actually built since this was just a soundstage building. Also, some of the scenes that in-universe take place in some parts of the hacienda were filmed in other buildings, like the rear of the tavern. Interestingly, in the Goveror vs Rebatos arc the front of the hacineda was redressed in some scenes to look like the rear of the hacienda, which was ususally replaced by the rear of the tavern.

You sure those are high-tension poles, and not just a line of trees, the last two entangled.

I think we also see one at the end of the first episode, in a clip often reused as stock footage.

The gif above is one you took from episode 2x20, which is actually stock footage from episode 1x01, just with added rain and thunder.

 

[Breogan]

... we see high-tension poles, one of the biggest bloopers of the series.

Again; You sure those are "high-tension poles"? And not just a line of trees, with the last two entangled?

.

I think we also see one at the end of the first episode, in a clip often reused as stock footage.

The gif above is one you took from episode 2x20, which is actually stock footage from episode 1x01, just with added rain and thunder.

Yeah again, you sure those aren't just trees?

Also random, nice panning shot across the main plaza set:

colorized;

...

 

[El Zorro]

Again; You sure those are "high-tension poles"? And not just a line of trees, with the last two entangled?

.

Yeah again, you sure those aren't just trees?

Sorry, I didn't notice your suggestion that those may be trees. I read that line quickly and thought you had written something like "sure, those are high-tension poles, the last two entangled".

What can I say? They don't look like trees to me, and Dooley's book also says they are high-tension poles, but I can't be 100% sure since I don't know the exact place where this scene was shot, only that it probably was filmed at Iverson Movie Ranch.