Jedi Hierachy and all that jazz

[November Rain]

I was just wondering what the difference between a jedi knight and a jedi master was?

originally i thought as a padawan, you graduated to a jedi knight and then only the people on the council could be addressed as masters.

however after reading the clone war comics, it seems other knights call each other masters.

so are all knights masters and if so, how does one get on the jedi council?

I understand that padawans call their direct superior master but i thought that was more out of respect than anything.

after all this, is Luke a Jedi Knight or a Jedi Master or both????


also realistically what's the difference between a dark jedi and a sith become it just seems to be stature rather than anything else.

I mean i've read of dark jedi like asaaj ventress taking on serious oposition while maul, a sith lord gets taken out by a padawan (albeit an exceptional one).

so what gives? is this part of the whole master/knight debate but on the other side of the coin?

 

[Erzengel]

From what I understood, a Padawan graduates to become a Jedi after the trials. The next level of rank is a Jedi Master. You can be a Master and not be on the Council. I believe Qui Gon Jinn was a Master. It is from the Jedi Master ranks that the Jedi Council choose who should be on the council.

Luke Skywalker because he and Yoda were the last of the Jedi didn't have the opportunity to go through the same type of training. He sorta went through a revised form of training. His "trial" was facing his father after that he was a Jedi Knight.

In the expanded universe, he continued his training, maybe discovering more lessons or books etc on Jedi. It was this continuing education that he became a self made Master of sorts.

Also Asaaj Ventress wasn't a formally trained Sith Apprentice. And I believe Sidious and Vader was the only ones actually identified as Sith Lords. Maul was an apprentice. I'm not sure what Dooku was.

 

[November Rain]

so what about nights or do they go simply under what you would class as jedi.

as for sith training vader has shown no sith training is required to be a sith lord, there is no evidence that he developed any skills under the tutelage of sidious.

those skywalkers are a lazy bunch indeed, anakin never finished his official trials either.

There are implications that dooku may have learnt force lightening from sideous but nothing solid.

as for sith lords, there are always two, a master and an apprentice. In that case i think it has more to do with hierachy than anything else or at least it did during this period in time. so i think it's safe to say that maul was also a sith lord, along with dooku and vader.


also in the clone wars, i'm not sure if it is due to the fact that the jedi are spread thinly but there are some young jedi (younger than anakin) that lose their masters and are referred to as Master *insert name*. I don't know if the ranks are simply raised due to no other options or whether there is a stage between knight and master.

 

[Erzengel]

so what about nights or do they go simply under what you would class as jedi.

as for sith training vader has shown no sith training is required to be a sith lord, there is no evidence that he developed any skills under the tutelage of sidious.

those skywalkers are a lazy bunch indeed, anakin never finished his official trials either.

There are implications that dooku may have learnt force lightening from sideous but nothing solid.

as for sith lords, there are always two, a master and an apprentice. In that case i think it has more to do with hierachy than anything else or at least it did during this period in time. so i think it's safe to say that maul was also a sith lord, along with dooku and vader.

Well then you are getting into the light/dark side of the force discussion. I feel so geeky. But anyways, obviously when a Jedi uses the force for knowledge or defense, he is calm, passive.

A Sith uses emotion such as anger/rage. You would think Sidous would have trained Vader and Dooku in this new way of thinking.

Anakin finished the a "revised version" of the trials during the Clone Wars Cartoon. The final trial was a journey inward. In Clone Wars 2 he goes from Padawan to Jedi Knight.

The whole 1 Master, 1 Apprentice (because of the expanded universe) began because there were many Sith Master and Apprentices always fighting amongst themselves until the Jedi put an end to them all except one Darth Bane. It was Bane who realized that the Sith must work behind the scenes and hence the 1 Master and 1 Apprentice was born.

 

[3dman27]

this is interesting very interesting indeed

 

[Mentok]

Interesting. No wait, the other thing: tedious. -Bender

 

[November Rain]

Well then you are getting into the light/dark side of the force discussion. I feel so geeky. But anyways, obviously when a Jedi uses the force for knowledge or defense, he is calm, passive.

A Sith uses emotion such as anger/rage. You would think Sidous would have trained Vader and Dooku in this new way of thinking.

Anakin finished the a "revised version" of the trials during the Clone Wars Cartoon. The final trial was a journey inward. In Clone Wars 2 he goes from Padawan to Jedi Knight.

The whole 1 Master, 1 Apprentice (because of the expanded universe) began because there were many Sith Master and Apprentices always fighting amongst themselves until the Jedi put an end to them all except one Darth Bane. It was Bane who realized that the Sith must work behind the scenes and hence the 1 Master and 1 Apprentice was born.

the funny thing is that the sith seem far calmer than the jedi, especially in bouts (with anakin as exception).

i don't think i've ever seen, dooku, vader, maul or sideous fight with anger or hate, they all seem more grounded. the only sith outburts only came from anakin's fight against obi-wan in the third film.

dark jedi seem to be way way more emotional than sith are. Even some jedi do.

training wise, one can only assume, there are some duelling techniques that are said to be more aggressive than others, one being vapaad (sp?) that mace windu uses although he avoids the dark elements of it.

I thought they promoted anakin purely because it was a desparate time and he was indeed the chosen one. During the second clone wars cartoon, they basically set him a mission that would be similar to what would have been his final trial.

the funny thing is that even as a knight, anakin still gets referred to as a master even though he is not.

I mean during a conversation of two non-padawan jedi, it is impossible to tell rank

 

[Erzengel]

The Emperor seems to fight using anger. The initial scene where he yells as he attacks Mace Windu and company.

During the Yoda vs. Emperor, it seemed Yoda was the calm one while the Emperor was full of hate and anger.

Also the Sith seem to use more of a psychological aspect to fighting, Dooku seemed to be coaxing Kenobi in Clones and Anakin in Sith.

And who referred to Anakin as a Master considering that was one of the things that upset him in Sith that the Council didn't grant him the rank?

 

[November Rain]

wait a second, i'm just reading a comic to find evidence but i feel i shall be greatly disappointed.

although not with me, i can guarantee that during the clone wars there were jedis ranked as masters that were younger than anakin (a padawan) at the time. This is what caused confusion but i guess during war time, desparate events caused for desperate promotions. given that, it was strange anakin never got one...

 

[November Rain]

alright this is where i may have gotten my wires tangled

a master needs to have done something great or raise a padawan to knighthood.

but a knight gets called a master by his padawan even though he is not.

I take it other padawns all call other jedis the term 'master' out of courtesy independant of their actual rank.

in the comic i'm trying to remember, anakin was a padawan at the time which is why he may have referred to this female Knight as a master. that's the only way out of this loophole i can think of...i'll have to double check and get back to you on that tomorrow

 

[Erzengel]

Yes the term Master can be used a show of respect between Apprentice and Teacher. I have to rewatch it but I think Kenobi was just a Jedi Knight in Clones but Anakin and Taun We called him Master.

 

[roach]

A padawan is the lowest rank of Jedi. Once they past the trials(or do something of greatness then he advances to the rank of Jedi Knight. Now the Knight either teaches a padawan or does something great and advances to the rank of Jedi Master. Masters or promenience are invited to join the Jedi council.
Now a dark Jedi is a Jedi who turns to the dark side of the force. The instant Anakin killed the Sand people village he became a Dark Jedi. What makes a Dark Jedi a Sith is when they begin training in the Sith techniques. The instant Sidious gave Anakin the Sith name Darth Vader he became a Sith Apprentice or a Sith Padawan sort of.

 

[November Rain]

Yes the term Master can be used a show of respect between Apprentice and Teacher. I have to rewatch it but I think Kenobi was just a Jedi Knight in Clones but Anakin and Taun We called him Master.

it makes sense since you don't become a master until you have finished training a padawan or under extreme circumstances...

i think taking out a sith lord pretty much whips you right up into council status...

heck, obi wan could probably pee on yoda and no one would say anything...

 

[November Rain]

A padawan is the lowest rank of Jedi. Once they past the trials(or do something of greatness then he advances to the rank of Jedi Knight. Now the Knight either teaches a padawan or does something great and advances to the rank of Jedi Master. Masters or promenience are invited to join the Jedi council.
Now a dark Jedi is a Jedi who turns to the dark side of the force. The instant Anakin killed the Sand people village he became a Dark Jedi. What makes a Dark Jedi a Sith is when they begin training in the Sith techniques. The instant Sidious gave Anakin the Sith name Darth Vader he became a Sith Apprentice or a Sith Padawan sort of.

but there is no evidence that anakin is aware of any sith techniques, he's been displaying his choking powers in the literature from when he was a padawan.

albeit after he killed those responsible for his mother's death.

 

[roach]

but there is no evidence that anakin is aware of any sith techniques, he's been displaying his choking powers in the literature from when he was a padawan.

albeit after he killed those responsible for his mother's death.

and he didnt get any sith training until he got burned up. However he went thru the Sith naming ceremony...it would be the same when Qui-gon tried to take Anakin as his Padawan. Had the council allowed it Anakin would have been a Padawan at that moment

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Obi Wan was always referred to as a knight in the original trilogy, but he is identified as Master Jedi in the later parts of the prequel trilogy.

 

[roach]

Obi Wan was always referred to as a knight in the original trilogy, but he is identified as Master Jedi in the later parts of the prequel trilogy.

I think he just refered to himself as a Jedi and never said Knight or Master

 

[Erzengel]

BEN: Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father.

Of course this could be construed as I use to be a Jedi Knight.

 

[블라스]

 

[roach]

BEN: Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father.

Of course this could be construed as I use to be a Jedi Knight.

"....from a certain point of view"

 

[November Rain]

BEN: Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father.

Of course this could be construed as I use to be a Jedi Knight.

well since anakin was never a master, i suppose this could literally be accurate....

 

[3dman27]

LOL thanks i needed that laugh

 

[Lantern Venom]

My new wallpaper! Thanks, Gammy.

 

[Mee]

Do we have an official Star Wars thread? I think we need one.

Anyway, Master > Knight > Padawan > Jar Jar

 

[November Rain]

right i have a clones war graphic novel with me that shows obi-wan addressing someone else 'younger' than anakin as a master.



oh and anakin was a padawan at the time...