Transformers Jetfire/Skyfire

[CFlash]

I dunno if this was discussed long ago... but doesn't anyone think Jetfire should be in this movie? ... that way-cool Robotech influenced defector. His toy was extrememely popular when I was kid. Probably as popular as the Dinobots toys.

I mean, if the Decepticons are going to have a car straight out the bag (BTW, a highly unfaithful adaptation of the original story in my opinion), why can't the Autobots have a jet? Might as well go for broke.


P.S.
He does have the distinction of being one of the first robots "born" (Creation Matrixed) on Earth (along with the Constructicons). [edit] in his comic book origin at least.

Maybe they can show him at the end as an egg about to crack and open like the end of Godzilla 98. (kidding... somewhat).

 

[WalkingDead]

I dunno if this was discussed long ago... but doesn't anyone think Jetfire should be in this movie? ... that way-cool Robotech influenced defector. His toy was extrememely popular when I was kid. Probably as popular as the Dinobots toys.

I mean, if the Decepticons are going to have a car straight out the bag (BTW, a highly unfaithful adaptation of the original story in my opinion), why can't the Autobots have a jet? Might as well go for broke.


P.S.
He does have the distinction of being one of the first robots "born" (Creation Matrixed) on Earth (along with the Constructicons). [edit] in his comic book origin at least.

Maybe they can show him at the end as an egg about to crack and open like the end of Godzilla 98. (kidding... somewhat).

I don't think Jetfire/Skyfire should be in this one, but if he was, it wouldn't really bother me either.

And Decepticon cars add to the "How can humans trust Autobots when other cars are being destructive and causing mayhem?" It makes great sense for the first movie to have a 'Con car for this purpose.

 

[CFlash]

I don't think Jetfire/Skyfire should be in this one, but if he was, it wouldn't really bother me either.

And Decepticon cars add to the "How can humans trust Autobots when other cars are being destructive and causing mayhem?" It makes great sense for the first movie to have a 'Con car for this purpose.

Great sense if they get to choose their forms straight-out-the-bag at will instead of having a netrual computer decide what they're best suited for. In which case I dunno why the Decepticons (or the Autobots for that matter) don't decide to make themselves a fleet of nuclear cruise missiles.

Or why the Autobots don't make themselves arial vehicles... seems they've put themselves at an extreme disadvantage.

 

[WalkingDead]

Great sense if they get to choose their forms straight-out-the-bag at will instead of having a netrual computer decide what they're best suited for. In which case I dunno why the Decepticons (or the Autobots for that matter) don't decide to make themselves a fleet of nuclear cruise missiles.

Or why the Autobots don't make themselves arial vehicles... seems they've put themselves at an extreme disadvantage.

Well the Autobots aren't warriors by choice. Most Autobots would never consider being too war-like. Particularly characters like Hound, Mirage, Bumblebee, Jazz, and Ratchet.

And why shouldn't they choose their forms straight out? And nuclear cruise missiles thing, even though a sarcastic joke, would not make sense. The Decepticons probably chose their forms based on what they were best suited for, or what fits their personalities the best...like the Autobots.

The 'Con Police Car might be a character whose function is similiar to high-speed land assault, or maybe he just likes to mock human authority as the cop car, making fun of their supposed law and order...sounds like a great idea for a Stunticon-based TF such as Dead End or Wildrider. Or BETTER YET...Runamuck (who I think the cop car will end up being).

 

[CFlash]

Well the Autobots aren't warriors by choice. Most Autobots would never consider being too war-like. Particularly characters like Hound, Mirage, Bumblebee, Jazz, and Ratchet.

And why shouldn't they choose their forms straight out? And nuclear cruise missiles thing, even though a sarcastic joke, would not make sense. The Decepticons probably chose their forms based on what they were best suited for, or what fits their personalities the best...like the Autobots.

The 'Con Police Car might be a character whose function is similiar to high-speed land assault, or maybe he just likes to mock human authority as the cop car, making fun of their supposed law and order...sounds like a great idea for a Stunticon-based TF such as Dead End or Wildrider. Or BETTER YET...Runamuck (which I think the cop car will end up being).

Man, but a news helicopter or a leerjet at least?! The Autobots reaction time to local Decepticon infractions, attacks, or disasters must be worse than the Bush administrations. How do they get around the globe in the movie? Star Trek style transporters? Or is the Ark in full working condition? I thought there was no Ark in the movie?

 

[sky51fire]

Skyfire has always been one of my most favorite Autobots in the cartoon. I did not like the toy as much because it looked nothing like the cartoon. It would be nice seeing Skyfire in the movie though.

 

[Iceburgeruk]

Man, but a news helicopter or a leerjet at least?! The Autobots reaction time to local Decepticon infractions, attacks, or disasters must be worse than the Bush administrations. How do they get around the globe in the movie? Star Trek style transporters? Or is the Ark in full working condition? I thought there was no Ark in the movie?

I dunno whether the ark doesn`t exist in the movie. I think they simply shall not mention where the two factions homebases are. Thats prob to be left for a sequel.

 

[CFlash]

I dunno whether the ark doesn`t exist in the movie. I think they simply shall not mention where the two factions homebases are. Thats prob to be left for a sequel.

I dunno man. I always thought Teletran-1 was sorta the equivalent of Cerebro and should not be left out. But, that's just me and maybe my memory is foggy.

But, the question remains. How do they get around? Stuff like that was sorta passable in a cartoon (where they seemed to always fight in the same area).... but in a "realistic" movie how are the Autobots suppossed to deal with Decepticons creating havoc across the globe?

 

[CFlash]

Well the Autobots aren't warriors by choice. Most Autobots would never consider being too war-like. Particularly characters like Hound, Mirage, Bumblebee, Jazz, and Ratchet.

.

"Hound" ??? Wasn't he the military jeep with missile launchers and a machine gun? There goes that theory.

I still don't get why the Autobots don't "choose" at least one or two arial vehicles. They're purposely giving up the high ground... something that in a war makes no sense.

 

[WalkingDead]

"Hound" ??? Wasn't he the military jeep with missile launchers and a machine gun? There goes that theory.

Hound was a Military Jeep for it's mobility over deserts and rocky surfaces, he was a scout after all...And NO...his gun was a Hologram-Maker and his shoulder "cannon" was in fact a radar scanner that allowed him to survey his surroundings and form topographical maps.
So my theory is totally sound, sorry but you are wrong on this one.


And to elaborate on the others:

Mirage hated war, didn't want to be on Earth, didn't want to fight, but did so cause overall he knew the Autobots philosophy fit him. He wanted to stay and play rich-boy, hunting with his yuppie Cybertron friends.

Jazz had weaponry, and good weaponry, but he was not a violent robot by nature. He preferred sitting around listening to music, being fun-loving, and just generally staying out of trouble. But war forces him to be a high-ranking Autobot with skill and style.

Ratchet was a guy who liked to party, have good times, and perferred to not fight most of the time. But he was also forced into it and forced to be a combat medic. He just became the best tool-n-die man the Autobots had.

 

[WalkingDead]

How do they get around? Stuff like that was sorta passable in a cartoon (where they seemed to always fight in the same area).... but in a "realistic" movie how are the Autobots suppossed to deal with Decepticons creating havoc across the globe?

More than likely...
They'll make a set up that there are different Autobot groups all over the world. Prime is just running the best of the best squad in the USA.

We can't really say for sure though...because in reality, there are multiple ways to handle this. They might say only recently did the TF's start mobilizing to full-on war and it's starting in the USA, as of right now there is no global conflict yet. It just depends on how they do it.

 

[CFlash]

Hound was a Military Jeep for it's mobility over deserts and rocky surfaces, he was a scout after all...And NO...his gun was a Hologram-Maker and his shoulder "cannon" was in fact a radar scanner that allowed him to survey his surroundings and form topographical maps.
So my theory is totally sound, sorry but you are wrong on this one.

<snip>

I seem to remember his toy (one of my favorites) had one of those spring-loaded missile launchers. I could be wrong. I just checked my TF Univ #2 issue (wow mint condition! I never realized... I haven't looked at it in years) and it jives with what you say. But, it makes no mention of him being passifist. Just that he loves Earth. Same goes with Wiki.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think the whole "autobots not warriors" thing is overstated. IMO (actually, not my IMO, but the whole thrust of the original story), is that they're not "warriors" because they were't built to be warriors. ... not because they purposely (and idiotically as seems to be the case in this movie) choose to give up the higher grown to a group that would snuff them out in an instant.

 

[WalkingDead]

I seem to remember his toy (one of my favorites) had one of those spring-loaded missile launchers. I could be wrong. I just checked my TF Univ #2 issue (wow mint condition! I never realized... I haven't looked at it in years) and it jives with what you say. But, it makes no mention of him being passifist. Just that he loves Earth. Same goes with Wiki.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think the whole "autobots not warriors" thing is overstated. IMO (actually, not my IMO, but the whole thrust of the original story), is that they're not "warriors" because they were't built to be warriors. ... not because they purposely (and idiotically as seems to be the case in this movie) choose to give up the higher grown to a group that would snuff them out in an instant.

Hound's Tech Specs state his gun was a Hologram Gun and his "Launcher" was a radar scanner. Also in the cartoon, he used his gun to scan stuff for hologram projections and his "cannon" was used to survey.


Autobots both choose to be less militaristic (for the most part, as a whole) and they weren't originally designed for war. It's not that they can't fight, it's that most of the time they would prefer not to as a whole.

 

[CFlash]

Hound's Tech Specs state his gun was a Hologram Gun and his "Launcher" was a radar scanner. Also in the cartoon, he used his gun to scan stuff for hologram projections and his "cannon" was used to survey.


Autobots both choose to be less militaristic (for the most part, as a whole) and they weren't originally designed for war. It's not that they can't fight, it's that most of the time they would prefer not to as a whole.

His toy box tech spec said this? (I'm not doubting... I'm just curious)
So, why did it shoot a missile in the toy?

As for fighting when you don't have to... Well, every ninja knows that! It doesn't mean they don't arm themselves to the teeth. Man, the Autobots really were panseys. Maybe that's why Cybertron fell.

Nah, I reject your defense of this movie's storyline. The Autobots aren't more militaristic and advanced weaponry because they choose to be.... it's that they don't posses the technology. They weren't built for it. It's why ALL the Decepticons could fly (and no Autobot could) and a select few Decepticons could change size (while no Autobot could... until later years when the likes of Blaster made an appearance).

 

[WalkingDead]

His toy box tech spec said this? (I'm not doubting... I'm just curious)
So, why did it shoot a missile in the toy?

As for fighting when you don't have to... Well, every ninja knows that! It doesn't mean they don't arm themselves to the teeth. Man, the Autobots really were panseys. Maybe that's why Cybertron fell.

Nah, I reject your defense of this movie's storyline. The Autobots aren't more militaristic and advanced weaponry because they choose to be.... it's that they don't posses the technology. They weren't built for it. It's why ALL the Decepticons could fly (and no Autobot could) and a select few Decepticons could change size (while no Autobot could... until later years when the likes of Blaster made an appearance).

YES...Hound's Tech Spec said this.
The toy of Hound shot a missile cause the original Diaclone Jeep Robot Hound was painted from shot a missile. But Story-wise, Hound NEVER did.



Reject it all you want to...I wasn't defending the movie...I was stated how Autobots were in general, nothing to do with the movie. All I was saying was that Autobots by nature as a whole aren't war-machines. They've had to build themselves up as war-machines, but that doesn't mean they go against their nature of being less militaristic. On a whole, Autobots don't believe in war, and most are pacifist or have been forced to not be pacifist.

Prime didn't believe in war, he just believed in defending sentient life and stopping the 'Cons. Bluestreak, Mirage, Ratchet, and others hated the war almost completely. Bluestreak even was so devastated by it, he never got over the 'Cons initial assaults.

There are Autobots who enjoyed fighting...Cliffjumper, Sideswipe & Sunstreaker, and others. But they are in the minority and they even don't really like the war so much as the war as shaped them up to be warriors.



As far as Technologically Set-up:
The Autobots flew just like the Decepticons in the first 3 episodes of Transformers cartoon, then in episode 4 they suddenly didn't any more. It was NEVER explained why in the cartoon.

Story-wise, Autobots had Mass-Shifting characters for a LONG, LONG Time. It was never stated who had the technology first, but in reality that doesn't matter much.

Decepticons were built for war originally, so of course initially they are better equipped to dish out war and pain. And of course the Autobots have to defend themselves or be enslaved/destroyed. Oh and IF I remember correctly the Autobots came up with transforming first, long before the Decepticons did.

 

[CFlash]

Calm down WalkingDead you're 100% correct. I know. I was talking about the choose-your-own-alt notion in this particular movie (which you seemed to be defending... but to me makes no sense- prima facie).

The question remains (around this movie... a "realistic" depiction) why the Autobots choose to give up the high ground to the Decepticons (a fatal disadvantage in any war)? A helicopter... a leerjet... a Boeing 747, anything. It doesn't make sense to me.

Also, the Autobots did (seem) to fly in the original miniseries but couldn't fly out of water in the same!!! So, I prefer to think that they could just jump really high (like the original Superman in the 30's or The Hulk)... and since in water they have no leverage to cast off they were stuck. Makes sense no?

 

[WalkingDead]

The question remains (around this movie... a "realistic" depiction) why the Autobots choose to give up the high ground to the Decepticons (a fatal disadvantage in any war)? A helicopter... a leerjet... a Boeing 747, anything. It doesn't make sense to me.

Who says they have? They've only announced Prime and Bumblebee...with Jazz, Ratchet, and Ironhide as rumors. And we've only seen what appears to be Bumblebee's alt. mode.

Do I really know why'd they give up the aerial advantage? No I don't. But who's to say that one of the Autobots isn't a copter, jet, or something. Hell they are using the A-10 Warthog in this movie, that could be Powerglide for all we know.

More than likely the reasoning behind no Autobot Jets is simply to state that only recently has the war started. Autobots have just assumed forms that fit their personalities and needs. Decepticons probably have chosen forms that suit their individual desires...such as the Police Car being a mockery of Law and Order and Human Authority...which IMO, is a great idea for the first movie.

 

[Iceburgeruk]

Who says they have? They've only announced Prime and Bumblebee...with Jazz, Ratchet, and Ironhide as rumors. And we've only seen what appears to be Bumblebee's alt. mode.

Do I really know why'd they give up the aerial advantage? No I don't. But who's to say that one of the Autobots isn't a copter, jet, or something. Hell they are using the A-10 Warthog in this movie, that could be Powerglide for all we know.

More than likely the reasoning behind no Autobot Jets is simply to state that only recently has the war started. Autobots have just assumed forms that fit their personalities and needs. Decepticons probably have chosen forms that suit their individual desires...such as the Police Car being a mockery of Law and Order and Human Authority...which IMO, is a great idea for the first movie.

True and additionally they have not yet told us whether we actually get to see the autobots homebase. Perhaps there are several aerial autobots but that the quick succession of events meant there was no time to call for such reinforcements.

 

[In2Minds]

They weren't built for it. It's why ALL the Decepticons could fly (and no Autobot could) and a select few Decepticons could change size (while no Autobot could... until later years when the likes of Blaster made an appearance).

the Auto bots could fly in G1 only the decepticons were too fast for them in the air and if you watch the first few episodes you'll see that ineed ALL the autobots can fly.. so im sorry but i think your sources are wrong

 

[CFlash]

the Auto bots could fly in G1 only the decepticons were too fast for them in the air and if you watch the first few episodes you'll see that ineed ALL the autobots can fly.. so im sorry but i think your sources are wrong

I did say in a subsequent post that they "seemed" to fly in the first miniseries episodes. But then couldn't fly out of water inexplicably in the same episode. So, it might be fair to say that they could just jump really high like The Hulk or 1930's Superman.

In any case, they never flew after that (Optimus' jetpack notwithstanding).

 

[ragdus]

it's possible they couldn't fly out of the water because they were waterlogged or something.

Submarine based missiles don't actually come in contact with any water. They are encased in air air cocoon that propels them above water when they hit the surface, and when they begin to descend the engines are triggered and they take off. Given that you'd assume the transformers have some similar (jet) propulsion, they'd need to keep from being totally submerged in water for their systems to work.

Mere speculation.

 

[CFlash]

it's possible they couldn't fly out of the water because they were waterlogged or something.

Submarine based missiles don't actually come in contact with any water. They are encased in air air cocoon that propels them above water when they hit the surface, and when they begin to descend the engines are triggered and they take off. Given that you'd assume the transformers have some similar (jet) propulsion, they'd need to keep from being totally submerged in water for their systems to work.

Mere speculation.

Maybe. I find it hard to conceive that the Decepticons had the same problem. Their flying abilities seem to be based on antigrav.

 

[Ironman24]

I don't think Jetfire should be in this film, maybe in the future if there's a sequel. I think if there are jets, it should stay with the Decepticons, Starscream, Thundercracker and Skywarp.

 

[CFlash]

I don't think Jetfire should be in this film, maybe in the future if there's a sequel. I think if there are jets, it should stay with the Decepticons, Starscream, Thundercracker and Skywarp.

The trio... The team! I loved those guys. Unfortunately, only Starscream seems to be in the movie. It's a shame.

I agree only Decepts should be jets (along with tanks or whatever)... but then again I also think the only "cars" should be The Autobots (unfaithful, logical arguments made by some notwitstanding).

One of two things should happen at the end of this movie (IMO), the Creation Matrix is found... or the Space Bridge is constructed. Either leads to the introduction of other characters like Jetfire..... and what I call "second generation" characters (like the 2nd jet trio Ramjet, Thrust, Dirge, and the Stunticons, etc).

 

[Kryptonite]

I liked JetFire as a character but the only reason he was ever created was Hasbro wanted to sell more toys by simply repainting a toy from another line

However it would be really cool if that transformer buried in ice was in fact JetFire! It would also be true to the original stories and maybe JetFire is the difference maker in the battles in the first movie, and he only awakens near the end to save the day