Judge Orders Bakery to Serve Gay Couple

[Destructus86]

OK, here's my opinion on this whole thing.

From a biblical standpoint...he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Baking a cake doesn't mean you support something against your beliefs...it's a service you are performing. It's like saying you refuse to polish a gay persons shoes because they are wearing them to a wedding. It's idiotic and isn't biblical. At all. (considering how many times first century Christians did good things for unbelievers)

2) From a business stand point the baker SHOULD NOT have been forced to do it. That goes against true freedom in this country. It's every businesses RIGHT to refuse service.

 

[Destructus86]

What does Jesus have to do anything with the article? Well, I'm agnostic. I feel that business shouldn't have a place for their religious belief, IMO.

I believe as a family owned company it is their religious right to refuse business.

Once we start removing rights from people...we start down a very bad road.

 

[The Question]

2) From a business stand point the baker SHOULD NOT have been forced to do it. That goes against true freedom in this country. It's every businesses RIGHT to refuse service.

Not based on discrimination, it isn't. That is actually against the law. Civil Rights Act.

 

[Pink Ranger]

If I go into their business and ask for 12 normal chocolate chip cookies that are right there in the display case, and they refuse my business because of my race or sexual orientation, that's out of line.

If I ask them to make me a Lady Gaga-themed multi-tiered red velvet cake celebrating the 15th anniversary of my monthly orgy club, then I think they should have the ability to say no.

 

[The Question]

If I go into their business and ask for 12 normal chocolate chip cookies that are right there in the display case, and they refuse my business because of my race or sexual orientation, that's out of line.

If I ask them to make me a Lady Gaga-themed multi-tiered red velvet cake celebrating the 15th anniversary of my monthly orgy club, then I think they should have the ability to say no.

Why?

 

[Pink Ranger]

Why?

Honestly, as a member of the LGBT community, I think there are some limits to the ability of a business to accomodate special requests. Can I sue a bakery for not making me a cheeseburger?

I actually felt sorry for the bakery that was picketted a few years ago for refusing to make rainbow cookies for a campus pride group. For one thing, as a hobby baker I know full well that the recipe itself would be a logistical nightmare; even I might turn down that job!

The problem is not with either the LGBT community or even the evangelical community; it's that these civil rights issues need to be prescribed in law, so everyone knows the limits of their rights and responsibilities and doesn't have to use the courts to fill in where legislatures fail. If the law is bad, then the LGBT community can sue the government, and not some local business, until the law gets fixed.

Unfortunately, to actually advance some legislation on this matter would be politically dangerous. It would require a political centrist, and I think there are maybe 11 of those left in America.

 

[The Question]

Honestly, as a member of the LGBT community, I think there are some limits to the ability of a business to accomodate special requests. Can I sue a bakery for not making me a cheeseburger?

I actually felt sorry for the bakery that was picketted a few years ago for refusing to make rainbow cookies for a campus pride group. For one thing, as a hobby baker I know full well that the recipe itself would be a logistical nightmare; even I might turn down that job!

The problem is not with either the LGBT community or even the evangelical community; it's that these civil rights issues need to be prescribed in law, so everyone knows the limits of their rights and responsibilities and doesn't have to use the courts to fill in where legislatures fail. If the law is bad, then the LGBT community can sue the government, and not some local business, until the law gets fixed.

Unfortunately, to actually advance some legislation on this matter would be politically dangerous. It would require a political centrist, and I think there are maybe 11 of those left in America.

But the law is very clear about this. You can'd deny services to someone based on race, sex, religion, or sexual orientation. That is against the law.

 

[DarkSentinel]

Why?

Because Lady Gaga is the reincarnation of Lilith, duh.

 

[The Question]

Because Lady Gaga is the reincarnation of Lilith, duh.

I knew it!

 

[Pink Ranger]

But the law is very clear about this. You can'd deny services to someone based on race, sex, religion, or sexual orientation. That is against the law.

True, but laws have certain distinctions. Not sure what the situation is in the USA, or the state in question, but there are also the legal principles of A) a service customarily made available to the public; and B) reasonable accomodation. Both of these provide potentially valid defences. Like I said, I believe there's a difference between me going into a florist and buying a bouquet that's sitting there in a bucket of water, and me asking the florist to custom design 25 table pieces for my (nevergonnahappen) same-sex wedding.

 

[Human Torch]

I think the issue is a rare one.If they felt that by making a wedding cake for a gay marriage was against their beliefs,and that by doing so they might be somehow condoning the action,then they should not be forced to do it.

But it's a rare thing.I mean,if a restaurant doesn't wan't to serve a gay person a cheeseburger,that's very wrong,and not good Christian behavior.

I'm not sure if I'd have done what the bakers in question did,to be honest.But I believe they were within their rights in this instance.

 

[Human Torch]

What in the blue hell does the sexual preference of the researcher got to do with the result. The man provided you with a number of sources to his claim, but because it didn't fit in with your sad demented warped world view you dismissed it as worth nothing, so why should we not do the same with what you claim, ohh I forgot everything you say is gospel truth, ohh bugger off.

You'd get more intelligent and active debate out of a stuffed corgi.

It could be considered a bias.Many Christian researchers get shot down for that claim,it works both ways.

Reading the article,it does seem to be on shaky foundations.It's based on a painting of two guys,and supposed documents that even the researcher admits could be simple business transactions of shared property,not unlike today.

But just playing devil's advocate,and saying it's true as the day is long.It means nothing.There are supposed Christian churches that will marry gay couples today.Getting only a fragment of those documents 500 years from now, researchers could make the same false assumption about Christianity today.

The Bible clearly teaches it is a sin,whether some ministers condoned it then or now. That doesn't change things.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

I think the issue is a rare one.If they felt that by making a wedding cake for a gay marriage was against their beliefs,and that by doing so they might be somehow condoning the action,then they should not be forced to do it.

But it's a rare thing.I mean,if a restaurant doesn't wan't to serve a gay person a cheeseburger,that's very wrong,and not good Christian behavior.

I'm not sure if I'd have done what the bakers in question did,to be honest.But I believe they were within their rights in this instance.

He's not making a cake for a gay wedding. He's making a cake for one of his customers.

THE END

It doesn't matter if the cake was for a satanic ritual killing. That is none of the cake maker's business. He makes cakes. That is his business.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

You must be new around here...the cake agenda is causing moral decay in our society, dontcha know

 

[DarkSentinel]

That's why we eat pie t:

 

[Hal_Jordan]

You must be new around here...the cake agenda is causing moral decay in our society, dontcha know

My mistake, I had no idea. I only knew about the tooth decay it caused in our society.

 

[Human Torch]

He's not making a cake for a gay wedding. He's making a cake for one of his customers.

THE END

It doesn't matter if the cake was for a satanic ritual killing. That is none of the cake maker's business. He makes cakes. That is his business.

Nah,the guy has got a right to refuse to do something against his conscience.If he was asked to make a cake for the grand opening of a new strip joint he should have the right to refuse.It's really a larger matter than the fact that it was for a gay wedding this time.

 

[Snow Queen]

Nah,the guy has gut a right to refuse to do something against his conscience.If he was asked to make a cake for the grand opening of a new strip joint he should have the right to refuse.It's really a larger matter than the fact that it was for a gay wedding this time.

Is it acceptable then if they won't make a cake because the happy couple are different races? Or just won't make them one if they aren't white?

 

[Human Torch]

Is it acceptable then if they won't make a cake because the happy couple are different races? Or just won't make them one if they aren't white?

There's not really a justifiable reason not to serve people of differing races.The Bible teaches God created all races and all are equal.So I don't see how his conscience could bother him about such a thing.If it did,he would be wrong for feeling that way.(scripturely speaking)

 

[Hal_Jordan]

There's not really a justifiable reason not to serve people of differing races.The Bible teaches God created all races and all are equal.So I don't see how his conscience could bother him about such a thing.If it did,he would be wrong for feeling that way.(scripturely speaking)

Fixed it for ya.

 

[The Question]

There's not really a justifiable reason not to serve people of differing races.The Bible teaches God created all races and all are equal.So I don't see how his conscience could bother him about such a thing.If it did,he would be wrong for feeling that way.(scripturely speaking)

Wether or not he's right or wrong scripturally speaking has nothing to do with the fact that denying services on the grounds of sexual orientation is illegal thanks to the Civil Rights Act. He does not, in fact, have the right to deny service to homosexuals.

 

[The Question]

Also, it should be pointed out that at no point does the Bible say that there's anything wrong with gay marriage.

 

[Black Narcissus]

From a business stand point the baker will make more money.

Why the hell is he complaining?! Sam Jackson is disappointed.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Thank goodness you're here, Sam Jackson. We need some motherf***ing sense in this motherf***ing thread.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

As someone who is a full supporter of the "gay agenda", I feel like I agree with what everyone has said.

The baker shouldn't have discriminated in the first place, but probably shouldn't have been forced by a judge to serve the customer. I do believe in right of refusal, and while I in full support of homosexuals and their rights, I also am in full support of protection of religious beliefs, even if I disagree.

I believe that gays should have full protection under the law to get married. I also believe that a specific church that does not approve should not be forced to do the ceremony.

I do believe that a gay married couple should be able to get a baker to supply their cake. I also believe that a company should not be forced to go against its own values.

Morally, I side with the gay couple. Legally, its very gray due to the discrimination angle but I think I agree with the baker.