Judge Orders Bakery to Serve Gay Couple

[DarkSentinel]

Not to get too theological here, but as a Christian this is the response I usually give to that:

"16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

Colossians 2:16-23

Emphasis mine.

Obviously there's room for interpretation there (which is the root of the problem), but the way I've always read it is "you are now free to ignore the old rules from Leviticus that tell you how to conduct your personal life." And I include homosexual sex in that estimation. I admit, that'a my partly my choice. But the way I see it, if something is vague enough that it's open for interpretation, we should go with the interpretation that allows for being nice to as many people as possible.

Never read it that way. Interesting. While it doesn't change my personal belief (emphasis mine ) it also doesn't change the fact that I hold everyone to equal standard in relation to myself, regardless of how they conduct themselves. Do right by me and you will receive the same in kind

Thanks for that, Question. More to ponder.

Last little crumb of insight from me before I take my leave of this thread. My youth pastor years ago once said to me "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion." I always add to that "both with God through Christ, and with others, be they believers or not." One of the essential (I would say most essential) factors of any kind of relationship is communication. If we can't communicate our thoughts and beliefs, and even debate them with others and with fellow believers, how in the hell can we grow as believers ourselves?

And with that, I take my leave.

 

[SentinelMind]

Like I have the time or energy to wade through your self-righteous tome.

JJJ, even we disagree, I don't hate you and really hope you have the best life possible...I know you don't believe me, but its the truth.

That being said, I have to challenge your arguments...you quoted me mid-sentence which is ...not a forthcoming, honest debating tactic.

I have never thrown any stones at anyone....just condemned the activity that is promoted in society. I really hope you see the distinction one day...you can root for someone to succeed but still disapprove the activity they are engaged in.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

JJJ, even we disagree, I don't hate you and really hope you have the best life possible...I know you don't believe me, but its the truth.

That being said, I have to challenge your arguments...you quoted me mid-sentence which is ...not a forthcoming, honest debating tactic.

I have never thrown any stones at anyone....just condemned the activity that is promoted in society. I really hope you see the distinction one day...you can root for someone to succeed but still disapprove the activity they are engaged in.

If not condemning, what exactly does "casting a stone" mean?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Can I just ask the bleeding obvious? Why the hell should we care what the Bible says?

Could there be anything more irrelevant to 21st century morality than a 2000 year old book written by people who thought killing was an appropriate punishment for homosexuality?

 

[Piper Maru]

Can I just ask the bleeding obvious? Why the hell should we care what the Bible says?

If you don't care what the Bible says, you'll be sentenced to an eternity of suffering.

 

[SentinelMind]

Calling it out for some sort of holistic punishment of entire person based on their history of acts. I want people to succeed, live, and be happy, ...but point out engaging in certain acts can lead to their downfall if they are not humble and careful.

 

[DarkSentinel]

Can I just ask the bleeding obvious? Why the hell should we care what the Bible says?

Could there be anything more irrelevant to 21st century morality than a 2000 year old book written by people who thought killing was an appropriate punishment for homosexuality?

I'm sensing atheism here. Sensing, not judging dude

The simplest answer I can come up with is faith. Plain and simple.

 

[Thundercrack85]

If you don't care what the Bible says, you'll be sentenced to an eternity of suffering.

I'll be sent to heaven with Sentinel and Human Torch?

 

[SentinelMind]

Can I just ask the bleeding obvious? Why the hell should we care what the Bible says?

Could there be anything more irrelevant to 21st century morality than a 2000 year old book written by people who thought killing was an appropriate punishment for homosexuality?

It's wisest book ever written and has predicted and explained lot of the problems we're experiencing today and will experience in the future. God had a plan for us explained in the Bible....there's nothing new under the sun...repackaging sin as 'civil rights' and 'new age thinking' doesn't mean you don't go down same road God warned you about in the Holy Bible.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I'm sensing atheism here. Sensing, not judging dude

The simplest answer I can come up with is faith. Plain and simple.

That works for you. But not everybody else.

 

[Piper Maru]

I'll be sent to heaven with Sentinel and Human Torch?

Er...ah...well....


I for one am looking forward to a burning lake of fire.

 

[Thundercrack85]

If this thread is any indication of who's going to heaven, send me straight to hell.

 

[DarkSentinel]

That works for you. But not everybody else.

And I don't expect it to.

 

[Feenix]

Calling it out for some sort of holistic punishment of entire person based on their history of acts. I want people to succeed, live, and be happy, ...but point out engaging in certain acts can lead to their downfall if they are not humble and careful.

I hate how you people always hide behind the "I judge because I care" bull crap. You're not converting anyone, you're just putting yourself on a pedestal as someone who has a right to judge. You don't. I repeat: you do not have a right to judge. Stop.

 

[DarkSentinel]

I hate how you people always hide behind the "I judge because I care" bull crap. You're not converting anyone, you're just putting yourself on a pedestal as someone who has a right to judge. You don't. I repeat: you do not have a right to judge. Stop.

This. None of us do. And for those of us who do do that, Pinchy, I apologize. Not all of us Christians are like that, I promise you.

Now let's everyone ease up and go enjoy some pie t:

 

[Piper Maru]

Or Cake, if that's your thing.

 

[Feenix]

This entire thread is proof that yes, some of you do.

 

[Superman 1265]

This. None of us do. And for those of us who do do that, Pinchy, I apologize. Not all of us Christians are like that, I promise you.

Now let's everyone ease up and go enjoy some cake t:

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[DarkSentinel]

Pinchy, I edited my post to clarify my first point.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

JJJ, even we disagree, I don't hate you and really hope you have the best life possible...I know you don't believe me, but its the truth.

That being said, I have to challenge your arguments...you quoted me mid-sentence which is ...not a forthcoming, honest debating tactic.

I have never thrown any stones at anyone....just condemned the activity that is promoted in society. I really hope you see the distinction one day...you can root for someone to succeed but still disapprove the activity they are engaged in.

This activity that you "disapprove" of is a personal act between consenting individuals that has absolutely zero effect on you.

It's quite frankly none of your business.

The fact that you "disapprove" is pretty disgusting in it's own right because who are you to even put yourself in a position to disapprove of something that has no impact on you, or anyone else?

 

[SentinelMind]

I hate how you people always hide behind the "I judge because I care" bull crap. You're not converting anyone, you're just putting yourself on a pedestal as someone who has a right to judge. You don't. I repeat: you do not have a right to judge. Stop.

Do you have kids or can you see yourself having kids in the future? Do you believe admonishing kids for doing wrong means you don't love them? Does loving your kids mean let them do anything they want?

 

[Spider-Who?]

Yeah, that'd be humorous if that were in fact what was happening in this thread. What I DO see is one incredibly patient person expressing his beliefs, while others relentlessly attack his character. These reactions would be one thing if the guy was spewing vitriol as well, but that isn't what's happening.

For the record, I'm not against gay marriage, just the hypocritical angst and feigned sense of higher morality in this thread. As for the topic itself, I'm fairly iffy on the idea of a judge forcing a business to make the cake, as well as the couple's desire to fight this in the first place. Should the owner have said yes in the first place? Yeah, I think so, and I don't believe that the couple is in the wrong for being upset, but I question the validity of their course of action. They could have easily gone somewhere else and not wasted time and drama and who knows how much money on the lawsuit...it honestly makes me think their reasons are disingenuous...IMO, if you want people to accept you, suing mom and pop shops isn't the way to do that. There's a sea of difference between honest acceptance and submission out of fear of legal action. That's not to say that legal action is never the right call - in many cases it is - but choosing the appropriate reaction to win the fight for acceptance is very important; otherwise the acceptance you win it is nothing more than silent animosity.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

SM, you still haven't answered my question about the difference between "casting a stone" and condemning?

 

[Feenix]

Do you have kids or can you see yourself having kids in the future? Do you believe admonishing kids for doing wrong means you don't love them? Does loving your kids mean let them do anything they want?

We're not your kids. No one here is a child for you to judge. You can do what you want to your own kids, but others and adults are not your responsibility or your right.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Yeah, that'd be humorous if that were in fact what was happening in this thread. What I DO see is one incredibly patient person expressing his beliefs, while others relentlessly attack his character. These reactions would be one thing if the guy was spewing vitriol as well, but that isn't what's happening.

Nah, comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, nothing vitriolic there. And going endlessly on about how they're destroying society. Nope. Not offensive at all, to all the gay members here. Nothing there that warrants a rebuke.

He is patient though, I'll give you that.