Superman Returns Just my opinion

[ktulu654]

I've been coming to this board for a while just never posted. In the past 24 hours i've sat down & watch superman, superman 2 the Richard Donner cut, & Superman Returns. Now i liked SR always did like it but after sitting sown & watching the first two, i have to say i like it even more. I know alot of people on this board dont like it & thats cool its just your opinion. But alot of people are saying reboot & this & that. I just dont agree. Superman does not need the batman begins treatment. Superman 1 is the best origins story you can get. I loved it, i've watched it when i was a kid but never actually WATCHED it till yesterday. yeah its pre crisis & all but its still superman. If you do a reboot you'll end up with kinda the same thing maybe not villian wise but everything else would be in my eyes be the same. & thats why superman just needed a returns story. & i really do hope that MOS gets made, I'de love to see a good 2 sequals & then do a JL movie. Im not trying to change anyones mind, just stating my opinion.

 

[Angeloz]

Nice thoughts I agree.

Angeloz

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I've been coming to this board for a while just never posted. In the past 24 hours i've sat down & watch superman, superman 2 the Richard Donner cut, & Superman Returns. Now i liked SR always did like it but after sitting sown & watching the first two, i have to say i like it even more. I know alot of people on this board dont like it & thats cool its just your opinion. But alot of people are saying reboot & this & that. I just dont agree. Superman does not need the batman begins treatment. Superman 1 is the best origins story you can get. I loved it, i've watched it when i was a kid but never actually WATCHED it till yesterday. yeah its pre crisis & all but its still superman. If you do a reboot you'll end up with kinda the same thing maybe not villian wise but everything else would be in my eyes be the same. & thats why superman just needed a returns story. & i really do hope that MOS gets made, I'de love to see a good 2 sequals & then do a JL movie. Im not trying to change anyones mind, just stating my opinion.

Completely agree on all points, SR was a great movie, and MOS will be better IMO.

 

[Super Kal]

even though I wholeheartedly disagree, you have every right to that opinion, and I respect that

 

[matthooper]

I've been coming to this board for a while just never posted. In the past 24 hours i've sat down & watch superman, superman 2 the Richard Donner cut, & Superman Returns. Now i liked SR always did like it but after sitting sown & watching the first two, i have to say i like it even more. I know alot of people on this board dont like it & thats cool its just your opinion. But alot of people are saying reboot & this & that. I just dont agree. Superman does not need the batman begins treatment. Superman 1 is the best origins story you can get. I loved it, i've watched it when i was a kid but never actually WATCHED it till yesterday. yeah its pre crisis & all but its still superman. If you do a reboot you'll end up with kinda the same thing maybe not villian wise but everything else would be in my eyes be the same. & thats why superman just needed a returns story. & i really do hope that MOS gets made, I'de love to see a good 2 sequals & then do a JL movie. Im not trying to change anyones mind, just stating my opinion.

A reboot is not going to happen, I think we all know that, even for those who don't want to admit it. It's a SR sequel or nothing.

For the people who didn't like it, all we can hope for is they learn from their many mistakes, the terrible color correction, a melodramatic tone, Lex's retread of a plan, only about 10 minutes of a useless Clark, A Superman that no real fan can identify with, no action, and all the rest.

The problem is some things can't be fixed. The kid, poor casting, a loose Donner continuity that remembers some things but forgets others.

All that said, I am certainly willing to give any possible SR sequel a shot. Singer knows mistakes were made. I assume the biggest complaint he gets is lack of action (that has even come from WB), and I'm sure that if a sequel is made, that will be the first thing he fixes. I don't fault him for making the film we got, I fault him for changing the film completely at the last minute and making a different film than we were promised.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Some of the casting can be fixed. Remember Katie Holmes in Batman?

They just need to recast Kate Bosworth's Lois Lane.

 

[matthooper]

Some of the casting can be fixed. Remember Katie Holmes in Batman?

They just need to recast Kate Bosworth's Lois Lane.

...and if they keep Spacey (who is a terrific actor) they need to change his terrible characterization. Everyone else, including Routh was actually ok.

By the way for the next defender who jumps all over my other post. I said, for those of us who didn’t like SR. I specifically gave some examples of things many people who didn’t like the film had problems with.

 

[Mister J]

I hope the decision is made for a sequel that incorporates some tweaking, in regards to characterization, level of action and tone. I enjoyed SR, but some inclusions bothered me and I'd like to see something that comes off as more 'Supeman' than melodrama.

I don't fault him for making the film we got, I fault him for changing the film completely at the last minute and making a different film than we were promised.

I've seen this mentioned a few times recently and I didn't really keep up with the production phases of the film. Can you (or anyone who knows) go into that a little more? Does it have to do with whole 'Superman has to find his place in a world that has learned to live without him' deal that was tossed around in the earlier synopses that never manifested in the film?

 

[hippie_hunter]

...and if they keep Spacey (who is a terrific actor) they need to change his terrible characterization. Everyone else, including Routh was actually ok.

By the way for the next defender who jumps all over my other post. I said, for those of us who didn’t like SR. I specifically gave some examples of things many people who didn’t like the film had problems with.

Spacey did a great job with Lex. He made the character darker than the previous incarnations. But the problem is that he played Hackman's Lex and well, Hackman's Lex is an incredibly campy character and even though Spacey's Lex was much darker, he still played a campy character.

I'm really hoping that they will fix that and make Lex even darker.

But still, get rid of Bosworth. She's too young to play a Lois Lane that should be in her early 30's.

 

[Matt]

Is this thread really necessary? Especially in this forum? Shouldn't it be in the SR forum?

 

[matthooper]

I hope the decision is made for a sequel that incorporates some tweaking, in regards to characterization, level of action and tone. I enjoyed SR, but some inclusions bothered me and I'd like to see something that comes off as more 'Supeman' than melodrama.

I've seen this mentioned a few times recently and I didn't really keep up with the production phases of the film. Can you (or anyone who knows) go into that a little more? Does it have to do with whole 'Superman has to find his place in a world that has learned to live without him' deal that was tossed around in the earlier synopses that never manifested in the film?

It would take way too much time to explain all the changes and deletions made to the final product. The original had a Journey to Krypton that cost 10million to make, an actual reasonable explantion as to why he left earth (tied to Lex), real consequences to his leaving, an inclusion of Zod, Smallville flashbacks that make sense and a bunch of other things that would have made the film make sense, and maybe much better.

This is why so many things don't make sense like the rediculous Smallville flashback, Martha's boyfriend, leaving earth even though Jor-El made it perfectly clear that Krypton is gone, no consequences to his leaving whatsoever, and a complete lack of action.

 

[zerohour films]

It would take way too much time to explain all the changes and deletions made to the final product. The original had a Journey to Krypton that cost 10million to make, an actual reasonable explantion as to why he left earth (tied to Lex), real consequences to his leaving, an inclusion of Zod, Smallville flashbacks that make sense and a bunch of other things that would have made the film make sense, and maybe much better.

This is why so many things don't make sense like the rediculous Smallville flashback, Martha's boyfriend, leaving earth even though Jor-El made it perfectly clear that Krypton is gone, no consequences to his leaving whatsoever, and a complete lack of action.

Yes, if you read the novelization and prequel comics you get a better understanding of where the characters are in their lives.

I personally liked the movie even with it's flaws (just that big of a Supes fan I guess), but have always been upset with the editing of it. I feel too much was left up to the audience to figure out and not explained well enough.

One example being---in the Smallville flashback why was Clark wearing glasses? Did he used to have bad eyesight and then when his powers developed they got better, ala Spider-Man? This unfortunately wasn't explained in the book that I recall.

And like mentioned before, the fact that they included some stuff from Donner continuity and not others doesn't help.

 

[Mister J]

It would take way too much time to explain all the changes and deletions made to the final product. The original had a Journey to Krypton that cost 10million to make, an actual reasonable explantion as to why he left earth (tied to Lex), real consequences to his leaving, an inclusion of Zod, Smallville flashbacks that make sense and a bunch of other things that would have made the film make sense, and maybe much better.

This is why so many things don't make sense like the rediculous Smallville flashback, Martha's boyfriend, leaving earth even though Jor-El made it perfectly clear that Krypton is gone, no consequences to his leaving whatsoever, and a complete lack of action.

OK, thanks. I was actually aware of more of that than I thought. That would have helped to flesh the film out, particularly the Krypton sequence, Smallville stuff and Lex being responsible for the false Krypton readings.

 

[matthooper]

Yes, if you read the novelization and prequel comics you get a better understanding of where the characters are in their lives.

I personally liked the movie even with it's flaws (just that big of a Supes fan I guess), but have always been upset with the editing of it. I feel too much was left up to the audience to figure out and not explained well enough.

One example being---in the Smallville flashback why was Clark wearing glasses? Did he used to have bad eyesight and then when his powers developed they got better, ala Spider-Man? This unfortunately wasn't explained in the book that I recall.

And like mentioned before, the fact that they included some stuff from Donner continuity and not others doesn't help.

I didn't have a problem with any of SR in theory. To me it was just executed so poorly, and yes editing was a major problem. It often felt like it was edited by someone who didn't know what they were doing. The Smallville flashback being just one a a few puzzlers.

I had thought I read that it was explained about the glasses somewhere, maybe in the original script, but never shown in the final cut.

The flaws were just too much for me to overcome. You have to understand that I was as hyped for this than anything but SM1, 2 and 3. We won't speak of SM3. Once Lex explained his "plan" I was lost for good. It was just such a letdown. So many misses, like NK simply being a big rock with kryptonite. How about if we saw New Krypton as Krypton really was, with Kryptonian beasts and Kryptonian weapons. Getting beat down by Kal Penn didn't exactly stir up any emotion for me. Now seeing the original colors for the suit and the film before Singervision and knowing how SR was originally intended to be told, it just seems to me like such a missed opportunity. Here's to hoping a sequel is much better!

 

[ck51100]

The problem is some things can't be fixed. The kid, poor casting, a loose Donner continuity that remembers some things but forgets others.

Ugh....I can't express how much the loose continuity bothers me. I know, I have issues.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The words vague history and Superman make me cry everytime.

 

[TheBat812]

even though I wholeheartedly disagree, you have every right to that opinion, and I respect that

you dont think STM was a fantastic origin movie? And that to redo the origin would simply be redundant?

 

[DarkMajin]

you dont think STM was a fantastic origin movie? And that to redo the origin would simply be redundant?

I think Superman I and II had a story to tell and they told it. And I'd say it probably was better off left as it was...that is, with the story ended.
If you really wanted to continue on with the story from there, then you really should follow it. SR did not.

In a revamp, at least how I would do it...I wouldn't recount the origin in quite the typical way (you know, taking up a chunk of the beginning of the film)...so it wouldn't be redundant.

 

[FaT_tONle]

But still, get rid of Bosworth. She's too young to play a Lois Lane that should be in her early 30's.

I would ditch her in a heart beat... she was terrible in the role... heck I'd even put Katie Holmes in that slot over her... but yeah she needs to go... get someone more mature... not early thirties though... but late twenties... can't have her looking older than Routh.

 

[hammy]

I don't get all the comments about how young Bosworth and Routh looked. Neither looked particularly young, to me. Routh looked exactly right. If Bosworth had been any good, she probably could have carried it off.

I've been coming to this board for a while just never posted. In the past 24 hours i've sat down & watch superman, superman 2 the Richard Donner cut, & Superman Returns. Now i liked SR always did like it but after sitting sown & watching the first two, i have to say i like it even more. I know alot of people on this board dont like it & thats cool its just your opinion. But alot of people are saying reboot & this & that. I just dont agree. Superman does not need the batman begins treatment. Superman 1 is the best origins story you can get. I loved it, i've watched it when i was a kid but never actually WATCHED it till yesterday. yeah its pre crisis & all but its still superman. If you do a reboot you'll end up with kinda the same thing maybe not villian wise but everything else would be in my eyes be the same. & thats why superman just needed a returns story. & i really do hope that MOS gets made, I'de love to see a good 2 sequals & then do a JL movie. Im not trying to change anyones mind, just stating my opinion.

I'm glad you liked it. I would have liked something that did a bit of a better job describing his origins, but didn't spend half the movie, doing it. Not because I didn't like STM, but because it's just so old now and it would be nice to have an updated version for this generation, especially with the effects that are available, today. But meh ... I don't expect a reboot. I just don't think they see a need for one. Despite a lot of complaints from fans, it was still relatively popular with the general audience.

 

[KaptainKrypton]

One example being---in the Smallville flashback why was Clark wearing glasses? Did he used to have bad eyesight and then when his powers developed they got better, ala Spider-Man? This unfortunately wasn't explained in the book that I recall.

They tipped the hat to it later in the film. Jason started panicking with an ashtma attack until his body responded to the stress by allowing him to throw a piano at a guy. Clark at one time did need glasses, but as he approached puberty and he initiated his first flight in the barn, his body responded by allowing his vision to improve, along with his ability to defy gravity. It's the same deal that the X-men mutants have. A situation of stress during puberty is what typically brings out some of the powers that lay dormant. It's likely that because Jason is partially human that he was even more of a late bloomer than his father (as Clark lifted the rear end of Jonathan's truck in the first film when he was still a toddler). In SR they even talk about how Jason got a "D" in gym. He'd likely never showed any signs of even his initial burst of powers until that moment. He'll probably end up weaker than his dad in the end due to diluted genetics. And on a side note, I need to get a life.

 

[matthooper]

I don't get all the comments about how young Bosworth and Routh looked. Neither looked particularly young, to me. Routh looked exactly right. If Bosworth had been any good, she probably could have carried it off.

Bosworth's age wasn't the only problem, the real problem was simply Bosworth. However, I always felt Lois was older than Clark. She was a seasoned reporter even before Clark joined the Planet. Lois Lane needs to command the screen, Bosworth did not. Bosworth is not a good actress, she's just a cute one. Routh I thought, looked fine for the part.

Also, If this takes place 5 plus years after Superman 2, wasn't Clark like 28 or so in Superman 1 and 2? Shouldn't he and Lois be much older? Bosworth looked like she was 19. If this is the same continuity from the Donnerverse, the ages are all wrong. Lois would be in her 40's. Not that I wanted a Lois in her 40's, but Bosworth was all wrong. They needed someone in their 30's who looked younger. Someone who had a maturity beyond her years. Singer simply chose to keep some things from the Donner continuity when it suited him, and forget others when it didn't.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I would ditch her in a heart beat... she was terrible in the role... heck I'd even put Katie Holmes in that slot over her... but yeah she needs to go... get someone more mature... not early thirties though... but late twenties... can't have her looking older than Routh.

It's not that she acted the part horribly, it's that she lacked the maturity of the role.

Singer chose a continuity of Superman that has Superman in his mid-thirties and Lois at least in her early thirties.

While Routh looked young, he act least had played the role with enough maturity that I could see him as a 35 year old man. A 35 year old man who's aged very well.

Bosworth completely lacked that maturity. I not only blame her looks and acting talent, but also the script.

 

[mego joe]

you dont think STM was a fantastic origin movie? And that to redo the origin would simply be redundant?

When you consider how many versions there have been of the origin in the comics, no. They all maintain the same essential elements, but the different details provide different storytelling avenues. If you're completely uncreative and really don't understand the character, then I can see why you might not want to do an origin story.

STM does a really good job with the origin. Personally, Jor-El is too prominent in being Superman's raison d'etre. It should be about Clark deciding to use his powers for good because of the morals and values instilled in him by the Kents, not him being led by the hand by his ghostly long dead father. Since STM is the only origin story that uses Jor-El as such, it is clear it was a decision based on the fact that they had Brando in the role and wanted to expand it beyond a 5 minute sequence on him putting baby Kal-El in the rocket.

If you have a filmmaker start at the beginning and that filmmaker knows what he or she is doing, then you don't have to worry about pigeonholing them by using ANY continuity from previous Superman films. It really is where SR made it's first and most significant mistake- having any direct connection to the previous films.

So no, it's not fantastic. But it is really good.

 

[mego joe]

Bosworth's age wasn't the only problem, the real problem was simply Bosworth. However, I always felt Lois was older than Clark. She was a seasoned reporter even before Clark joined the Planet. Lois Lane needs to command the screen, Bosworth did not. Bosworth is not a good actress, she's just a cute one. Routh I thought, looked fine for the part.

Also, If this takes place 5 plus years after Superman 2, wasn't Clark like 28 or so in Superman 1 and 2? Shouldn't he and Lois be much older? Bosworth looked like she was 19. If this is the same continuity from the Donnerverse, the ages are all wrong. Lois would be in her 40's. Not that I wanted a Lois in her 40's, but Bosworth was all wrong. They needed someone in their 30's who looked younger. Someone who had a maturity beyond her years. Singer simply chose to keep some things from the Donner continuity when it suited him, and forget others when it didn't.

For the record, Superman came to Metropolis at age 30 in STM.