Kind of a comic newbie....

[chandlerbong]

Ever since I started following Batman Begins, back in, August 03', I started to lurk on the boards and see some of the discussions that bat-fans were having about the film. As I followed production, and started to pick up and learn some of the Batman Mythos, I felt a little in the dark, "comic book-wise." After finally building up the nerve to buy, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Haunted Knight, I came home and read TLH from cover to cover in about an hour, and couldn't believe how great of a read it was. I put the books away, and then forgot about them. After the press release of The Dark Knight I got pumped and amped and just reread TLH.

My questions are:
1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!
2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?
3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

In advance, theank you for all your help!

 

[Joker]

1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!

up to debate, I say it was Gilda Dent up until the coroner, where Falcone took over, but others say Harvey was in there, I dont think so though

2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?

I would agree, but Haunted Knight must take place during TLH, it just never crossed over with the main story from it.

3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

The Killing Joke is the definitive Joker story, with Man Who Laughs in a close second...I thought Hush was great, and if you liked TLH, HK, and DV you should definitly pick it up...alot of people love Dark Knight Returns, although I only liked the two-face story and the superman fight, the rest sucked imho...Year One is incredible

 

[CConn]

Batman and the Monster Men (which will be released in TPB later this month) is also quite fantastic, IMO.

 

[Mister J]

The first two questions were pretty much covered. In adding to the graphic novel mention, I'd underscore what The Joker said about The Killing Joke, The Man Who Laughs and Year One. I'd recommend Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth as well.

 

[Spare-Flair]

I like Hush more than the Killing Joke. I think the Killing Joke is overrated with a flimsy characterization of the Joker's plot (and pathetic ending with a crappy joke) only for the purpose of driving his origin vehicle.

With Hush, I got to see all my favorites and go through Detective twists and turns.

 

[Cobblepot]

The ending of TKJ was brillaint, Joker knows if he doesn't do anything about it. He'll be beat to a bloody pulp, thus he diffusses the situation with a Joke. A lot of people would do something simulair in a situation like this, he just takes it a little further. Plus the "smile" on batsys face was priceless...heh.

 

[Fear of god]

Batman: The Cult

it's like No Man's Land & Knightfall in one book and a little bit morbid.

 

[Joker]

the joke at the end of killing joke was the only way to end it. It showed that Joker did in fact know that if him and Batman dont stop the endless cycle of murder and revenge that they're on, one or both of them is going to end up dead. the problem is, he knows it's too late for him, and that there's no way to bring him back from his insanity at this point. The joke was a moment of clarity for him when he realized this, and perfectly summed up his and Batmans whole situation, both of them crazy, but on different sides of the chasm of the roof of the lunatic asylum.

 

[Punch]

^ it also demonstrated that even in a society where men dress up like bats, the Joker is still outside the conventions of that society.

 

[Spare-Flair]

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

 

[Goddamn_Batman]

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

Wow man. Did Moore beat you up at a convention or something?

 

[Archangel]

Wow man. Did Moore beat you up at a convention or something?

Probably not, but he totally should.

 

[hippie_hunter]

1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!

What I love so much about this book is that after years that it has come out, this is still up for debate. In my opinion Holiday was Gilda Dent, Harvey Dent, and Alberto Falcone (everyone agrees that Gilda and Alberto were both Holiday, like the Joker said, Harvey is up for debate)

2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?

The Long Halloween and then Dark Victory. Haunted Knight is not in continuity but it is still a good story.

3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

Batman Year One
The Man Who Laughed
Batman and the Monster Men

* As you can see these are stories that take place in Batman's early days before he became such a paranoid dickwad with a clusterf**k of villains, sidekicks, and gadgets. This is my favorite period of Batman stories.

Robin Year One
Batgirl Year One
Nightwing Year One

* I like the Year One stories, even though they feel nothing like Batman Year One.

The Killing Joke

* Alan Moore is awesome!

Batman: Under the Hood

* The resurection of Jason Todd is quite controversal, but I loved Winnick's run on Batman, asides from Superboy Primes Super-Emo-Crystal-Wall-Shattering-Continuity-F**king-Up-Punches. Too bad Jones f**ked it all up in his terrible run on Nightwing.

 

[Joker]

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

you are aware that Killing Joke was originally not in continuity, arent you? so it wasnt an excuse to change Barbara at all, because she wasnt actually supposed to have been changed by it. The response from the fans on the story was so positive, and it was such a great book, that they put it in continuity.

 

[Qoèlet]

(everyone agrees that Gilda and Alberto were both Holiday, like the Joker said, Harvey is up for debate).

Sadly, for certain folks around these boards, Gilda being Holiday is for some reason very much up for debate. I can't understand it myself, but I've seen the most longwinded, sense-defying explanations of how it's "unreasonable" to say Gilda was really the killer and how she instead has this bizzarre mental condition brought on by stress, thus convincing herself that she was really the killer.... because, you know, that's WAY more reasonable than the thought that she might actually do things that she says she did.

But yeah, if Harvey fit in or not, that's uncertain. That's sort of the point.

Overall, the best storyline, which should be read over and over again, has got to be Knightfall and Knightsend. On The Killing Joke issue... I thought it was good, but not fantastic.

 

[Revovler]

Harvey along with Gilda and Alberto is Holiday. At the end of the TLH when Gilda is burning the clothing she says Harvey had the same idea and shot Alberto. Also Two face says "you know there were two" not considering Alberto. Well that is my opinion. As for The Killing Joke I really believe you should get The Man Who Laughs along with it because it seems to me to be the climax.

 

[Joker]

No, Harvey knew that Alberto was Holiday, because he was caught and it was in all the papers. He also considered himself Holiday for killing The Roman at the end on a holiday, and never knew Gilda did anything. Gilda killed everyone up till Alberto, who faked his own death, and Gilda thought that Harvey had taken over after her example. But, I guess Harvey could have also done some of the earlier ones, in between where Gilda and Alberto switched, but I like to think he still had a handle on his sanity until he was scarred.

 

[hippie_hunter]

No, Harvey knew that Alberto was Holiday, because he was caught and it was in all the papers. He also considered himself Holiday for killing The Roman at the end on a holiday, and never knew Gilda did anything. Gilda killed everyone up till Alberto, who faked his own death, and Gilda thought that Harvey had taken over after her example. But, I guess Harvey could have also done some of the earlier ones, in between where Gilda and Alberto switched, but I like to think he still had a handle on his sanity until he was scarred.

I always assumed that Gilda was the killer from Halloween to Thanksgiving, Harvey was the killer from Christmas to St. Patrick's Day, Alberto from April Fools Day to Labor Day, and Two-Face on Halloween.

I think that Harvey tried to kill Alberto but failed to do so

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Batman and the Monster Men (which will be released in TPB later this month) is also quite fantastic, IMO.

I can't wait to read it...

 

[Two-Face]

I really believe you should get The Man Who Laughs.

Yeah if you can find it! whicch was hard to find anywhere til I looked at ebay.

 

[GNR]

This is coming from another Bat noob:

Dark Knight Returns
Year One
TLH
DV
Kingdom Come(Bats plays a big part)

 

[Kool-Aid]

Yeah if you can find it! whicch was hard to find anywhere til I looked at ebay.

Really? Its hard to find? I bought it a few months back and it was at the first coimc shop I looked for it.

 

[GNR]

I'm really in no hurry to read Hush.I don't know why.

 

[Kool-Aid]

Are you planning on getting The Man Who Laughs or The Killing Joke?

 

[Batty Belfry]

I think my next purchase is gonna be the Hush 3vol. set.