Kramer's A Racist!!!

[deemar325]

Jesse Jackson is a racist regardless of whether Kramer is.

Warped statement if there was one, Jesse may have harbored some ill feelings toward jews, but it wasn't without merit considering many jewish store owners did treat the blacks who where their costumers badly and charged unfair prices for basic essentials as bread and butter years ago.

Jesse was dead wrong for his words, but it's in no way the same as Michael Richards venom filled rant.

 

[Cаrter]

An equal amount of ridicule would have been calling them an ******* or insulting their mother by calling her a prostitute.

A racial slur is not an equal amount of ridicule in any circumstance unless you are a racist and that's how you roll!

Listen, obviously Kramer is more racist than most people.
But I don't care who you are, when you're angry at an individual you go for the jugular. This is how all people are. This isn't some fairy world where we all play nice.
Everybody is a little racist black, white, asian, muslim, w/e.
Just a smidge.

It just seems funny to me that some people here like to pretend like they've never even thought a racial epithet while angry at another individual.


And furthermore, if you use racism in a non vicious way, it's not harmful.
I'm black and I have a friend who's Jewish. And in high school we used to just fire the most offensive racial jokes you've ever heard down the hallway at each other. But it was still friendly.

I just saw him at Best Buy the other day and asked if he went to "camp" this past summer.

Now that's certainly not what happened here, but I'm just trying to make a point that theres a difference between what people say and what they think.
You included.

 

[Abaddon]

Too f****'n bad

Yeah, that's mature.

 

[deemar325]

Yeah some of these guys are embarrassing me.

 

[Fran]

Too f****'n bad

 

[Crowforge]

Yeah maybe it isn't 'mature' but considering what I'm talking about so what? When I jump onstage and scream racial slurs or go on about how I’m sick of feeling guilty about ‘something that happen years ago’ that’s really still happening and whose past resonates to this day you can wag the finger. And don’t bother feeling embarrassed, my actions are my own as a human being and don’t reflect on anyone else because of some silly social construct.

 

[Darthkush]

Listen, obviously Kramer is more racist than most people.
But I don't care who you are, when you're angry at an individual you go for the jugular. This is how all people are. This isn't some fairy world where we all play nice.
Everybody is a little racist black, white, asian, muslim, w/e.
Just a smidge.

It just seems funny to me that some people here like to pretend like they've never even thought a racial epithet while angry at another individual.


And furthermore, if you use racism in a non vicious way, it's not harmful.
I'm black and I have a friend who's Jewish. And in high school we used to just fire the most offensive racial jokes you've ever heard down the hallway at each other. But it was still friendly.

I just saw him at Best Buy the other day and asked if he went to "camp" this past summer.

Now that's certainly not what happened here, but I'm just trying to make a point that theres a difference between what people say and what they think.
You included.

I don't think Richards was "more racist" than most people because racism is something that is still ever prevalent. People act if just because the klan isn't burning crosses in peoples' yards on a regular basis that racism doesn't exist.

I think the biggest problem of the "n" word thing is that americans in particular have become so desensitized to it that it no longer bothers many of them to say it. It still hurts many blacks to hear it but others hear it in rap music and being uttered by blacks to such an extent that they truly don't believe there's any evil to the word. The problem is the biggest among youth, I think.

Just the fact that there are so many people in HERE that think cracker and n*gger are equivalent slurs speaks VOLUMES. It says that our society's understanding of racism is at an all time low.

See, here's the thing, it's not that americans have become less racist, they've just become more TOLERANT. I.E., a racist white guy has accepted the fact that black people aren't going anywhere and aren't gonna get out of the country so he might as well be polite as possible to them in PUBLIC. It doesn't mean he suddenly LIKES the black people.

 

[charl_huntress]

Listen, obviously Kramer is more racist than most people.
But I don't care who you are, when you're angry at an individual you go for the jugular. This is how all people are. This isn't some fairy world where we all play nice.
Everybody is a little racist black, white, asian, muslim, w/e.
Just a smidge.

I agree everyone has biases and preconceptions and some of those include racial profiling. I dispute that everyone is racist because what qualifies being a racist today doesn't make this true to me.

Yet, I can't get down with anger being an excuse for acting like an ass. Yes, he was angry, but no he shouldn't have said that. That's pretty much the point. Plus, this isn't the animal kingdom. If you get mad you don't go for the jugular. Endorsing that type of behavior is what enables people to continue on with it.

There are rules, and insulting someone using their race is wrong. I agree we have probably thought some things we shouldn't have, or said it in the privacy of our own home or amongst friends and family, but you don't get to toss out common deceny in public because you are pissed off. If you advocate that then anyone who acts out in anger is excused because "they were going for the jugular".

C'mon on dude...

It just seems funny to me that some people here like to pretend like they've never even thought a racial epithet while angry at another individual.

Again, the difference is in thinking it verse acting on it. You can think some really nasty things. Movie producers, writers, and a whole lot of other people have disgusting minds. Yet, the line is crossed when they go out in public and start acting on it. That is usually when the call in the men with the white coats.

And furthermore, if you use racism in a non vicious way, it's not harmful.
I'm black and I have a friend who's Jewish. And in high school we used to just fire the most offensive racial jokes you've ever heard down the hallway at each other. But it was still friendly.

I just saw him at Best Buy the other day and asked if he went to "camp" this past summer.

Now that's certainly not what happened here, but I'm just trying to make a point that theres a difference between what people say and what they think.
You included.

I've already said that I don't think he's a KKK card carrying racist. Yet, he crossed the line and that has to be answered. Simply to let others know and Richards himself know that behavior is not allowed. Period!

Anyway, I do sort of agree on the destigmatizing certain words by using them in jest or in some other friendly manner.

 

[deemar325]

Weiser losing your cool and ranting is a waste of your time and some people aren't worth the effort.

It looks bad on ya man, it's ok to be furious but it's better to have a little dignity. Doctor King had it and Malcolm had it a certain even keeled and focused anger and outrage.

Swearing and insulting a few knuckleheaded posters is beneath you guy, be better than that.

 

[War Lord]

Warped statement if there was one, Jesse may have harbored some ill feelings toward jews, but it wasn't without merit considering many jewish store owners did treat the blacks who where their costumers badly and charged unfair prices for basic essentials as bread and butter years ago.

Jesse was dead wrong for his words, but it's in no way the same as Michael Richards venom filled rant.

With all due respect, but if racial comments cannot be excused from Richards, than Jackson shouldn't be excused for harboring racial comments either.

Doesn't really matter the reason.

 

[charl_huntress]

To my knowledge, Jackson has apologized for his statements...some of them at least.

I agree that any sort of derogatory racial insult is intolerable. I have no problem with it being used in a friendly way or whatever, but when you say something like hymie town and things like that in public you need to be checked.

 

[deemar325]

No argument there.

I just don't see Jesse Jackson as racist.

 

[charl_huntress]

I don't either, but he has also said some inappropriate things. I remember one distinctly that I was like...now that's going too far.

He apologized for that one.

 

[War Lord]

And I happen to think that virtually all the black leaders who blame the black condition on whites as racist.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Yes, but every other loan officer and form does. You can have decent credit, same as a white person, and get denied for a home loan. They may not say it's because you are black, but...

.

I don't believe that happens on any kind of large scale that is having any effect that would show up in any scales or statistics. It's probably very rare. people would be going to prison and it would show up in rejection statistics.

Not to mention there are groups and social programs specifically to help minorities get them. It's actually easier for a black person or a hispanic to get one than a white person.

 

[charl_huntress]

I don't believe that happens on any kind of large scale that is having any effect that would show up in any scales or statistics. It's probably very rare. people would be going to prison and it would show up in rejection statistics.

Not to mention there are groups and social programs specifically to help minorities get them. It's actually easier for a black person or a hispanic to get one than a white person.

Yes, actually it's quite common and it has been documented. There have been plenty of exposes and the like. If you Google it you will find a lot of articles about it.

That is your perception, but the actual reality is that a lot of black folks are denied home loans, small business loans and other loans on luxury items at a far higher rate than whites with the same vital statistics.

To make this matter worse, those that are approved are generally charged higher interest rates. And in a lot of cases many whites with low fica scores are approved while blacks with higher ones are denied.

This is a part of what many on this board identify when they talk about institutional racism. Fewer blacks than whites become homeowners and never advance economically because there is a system (unacknowledged obviously) which keeps them in poverty.

 

[deemar325]

I don't believe that happens on any kind of large scale that is having any effect that would show up in any scales or statistics. It's probably very rare. people would be going to prison and it would show up in rejection statistics.

Not to mention there are groups and social programs specifically to help minorities get them. It's actually easier for a black person or a hispanic to get one than a white person.

Buddy in Georgia the news investigated how banks and realtors would low ball blacks or not allow high credit/income blacks loans to buy a house it's still going on.

 

[deemar325]

And I happen to think that virtually all the black leaders who blame the black condition on whites as racist.

Then you'd be wrong.

There are things we need to be held accountable for as blacks in our own problems yes, but theres alot of things that are done intentionally to harm blacks whether it be drug laws passed to put harsher punishment on blacks such as crack as opposed to cocaine, re-zoning of districts to keep the poor urban blacks out of white neighborhoods and schools, slow action during hurricane Katrina, labling of blacks as 'looters' and whites as 'survivors searching for food'.

It's not as clean and simple as "hey black guy stop calling me out."

 

[Cаrter]

Theres so much I want to say here about society and race.
But I am so lazy.

I figure it doesn't matter anyway because I half want to ring Kramer's neck and I half want to just forgive the guy.

 

[charl_huntress]

Theres so much I want to say here about society and race.
But I am so lazy.

I figure it doesn't matter anyway because I half want to ring Kramer's neck and I half want to just forgive the guy.

You feel the way I feel...I'm just so surprised (not really) to see all the defense of him. On CNN and all the major channels that's all your hear. Then the next story they show is the black scam artist. Like white folk don't scam...Enron anyone. Anyway it infuriated me so I'm venting here...lol.

I did feel bad for the guy on Lettermen. And then those stupids in the audience were laughing and making it worse. I feel for him because anyone can act ass, but that doesn't entitle you to do so. There are consequences and he's paying them.

 

[Spider-Bite]

to carl huntress and deemar, you are onto something, and it does need to be adressed by our government. harsh fines and prison sentences where people think their business will be shut down, and they will go to prison for years. and our federal government should make it be known "undercover applicants are coming, so you better stop"

I also believe that blacks who feel they have been discriminated against, should file lawsuits. A lawsuit about race would usually result in a settlement because nobody wants to be on the news for being racist.

I also have to say that in the south it's different from the north. In the big cities I have seen it's signifigantly different from just ten years ago. You see lots of blacks in middle class neighborhoods, and the ghettos are more diverse as well. Just ten years ago it was not like that. You only saw whites in nice neighborhoods and you only saw blacks in ghettos.

I completely support helping blacks get into good high paying jobs, and specifically targeting them for help with programs like Affirmative Action. but as for the reprimands and free money argument I'm adamanently opposed to it. And I disagree with Blind Fury on resegregating our schools to balance it out. I'm kind of angrily in disagreement about that proposal.

 

[Darthkush]

labling of blacks as 'looters' and whites as 'survivors searching for food'.

that one REALLY pissed me off. Example number 2,228,942. Racism is NOT over and there's no end in sight it seems.

 

[Spider-Bite]

And I happen to think that virtually all the black leaders who blame the black condition on whites as racist.

the current situation is the result of atrocities committed by white people. NOt all white people, but white people none the less.

I'm 100% in support of shrinking the gap and mixing up the neighborhoods and financial class. I support doing it, but I have been offended in the last week by several black and a few white posters for saying all whites owe all black people, because it's a racist claim. Blind Fury has made especially disturbing demands.

I support helping blacks, but I don't like being told I owe it or am in debt. I'm not. I choose to support it, because I believe it's in the best interest of America and the world. I'm only obligated out of intelligence, and not out of debt or guilt for crimes committed by other white people whom I never even met.

 

[Dan33977]

Deleted.

 

[logansoldcigar]

that one REALLY pissed me off. Example number 2,228,942. Racism is NOT over and there's no end in sight it seems.

your right. you bang on.the media has way to big an influence on how people think, and dont use it in the right way.


we become a product of the world we grow up in. the key to improve racial relation is for all of use to educate our children, all the time. My grandfather was a proper racist. My father is. Im not (and i aint. I took a reaction test designed by an american university to test peoples reactions to other races, using word and image association, combined with reaction times. it came out saying im not racially prejudiced. afterwards, i found out that the test is loaded to make people come at as racist)

I dont believe in AA. I believe it breeds resentment. any thread on the subject round here proves that. i believe its an inherently racist idea (I once asked if someone who is of white south african descent, and therefore an african american, would qualify, and was told no). The only way to achieve racial and sexual equality is to work on it from a foundation of racial and sexual equality, and in my opionion, any policy designed to fast track that, however well intentioned, work against the eventual aim.

yeah, we have a long way to go yet. but we have come an awful long way in an awful short time.