Endgame Let’s talk the T word (SPOILER DISCUSSION)

If thats the case, why ould he even return to the main MCU timeline if he had livevd 70 or so years elsewhere? That universe with whatever kids he and Peggy had were now his home. The relationships he formed and experiences he had were now his life
To officially say good-bye to Sam and Bucky and to pass the mantle to Sam. He knew the original timeline needed a Captain America, so, he made sure it had one.
 
But why specifically leave out Peggy's husband in her pictures and never mention his name? It seems like it was building up to the end of Endgame where we finally know who her husband was.
 
Because who cares about Peggy’s husband? You’re supposed to mourn the relationship that never was and what could’ve been. That’s harder to do when you personify “the other man,” who was ostensibly a good one who treated Peggy very well.
 
Yeah, I mentioned DoFP as an example of psychics, but I meant that is a different method than Quantum physics, so the rules can be different


This is VERY interesting. Yeah, Quantum Realm is like wormholes, which coud mean that when you travel from time a to time b, you are entering a point in time-space and then it branches, OR you are entering a point in time-space that already exists as a branch. Quantum physics would say yes, anything that can happen, happens in differnt universes, and the Quantum realm would be the nexus. SO, that means that, coincidentally or most likely, our heroes travel to other braches, BUT if you are careful/smart enough, theoretically, you could enter a point in time-space of your own branch, instead of a different one.

I think when Tony was inventing time travel, he had that holographic model of a Moebius Strip. I think the significance of that was to suggest that if you entered the wormhole, you'd travel still to a point on the same timeline rather than an alternate timeline.


Yes, Quantum leap was like that, it was always the "actual" bodies, in the same timeline, and future events changed (from the perspective of Sam and the hologram guy I can't remember the name)

It was Al.

Also, if the MCU continues with these rules of time travel, what does that mean for characters like Cable? How does he operate?

And what about if Fox never did Days of Future Past, but it were done for the first time at Marvel? Wouldn't they have to use the Back to the Future/ Quantum Leap rules of time travel instead of the Endgame rules? DOFP could never work under the Endgame rules.

On a related matter, what if the X-Men are from an alternate timeline where mutants exist?

And isn't the whole concept of "What If" based on alternate timelines?
 
Because who cares about Peggy’s husband? You’re supposed to mourn the relationship that never was and what could’ve been. That’s harder to do when you personify “the other man,” who was ostensibly a good one who treated Peggy very well.
I forgot she even had a husband but now that its mentioned, then yeah its kinda selfish what Steve did. Whatever happened to Sharon? He just left her in the dust
 
But why specifically leave out Peggy's husband in her pictures and never mention his name? It seems like it was building up to the end of Endgame where we finally know who her husband was.

Because who cares about Peggy’s husband? You’re supposed to mourn the relationship that never was and what could’ve been. That’s harder to do when you personify “the other man,” who was ostensibly a good one who treated Peggy very well.

Peggy's husband was probably scoundrel. Maybe he was a pirate named Peg Leggy.
 
I forgot she even had a husband but now that its mentioned, then yeah its kinda selfish what Steve did. Whatever happened to Sharon? He just left her in the dust

Quite literally, especially if she was dusted at the end of Infinity War.

I thought we'd see her at Stark's funeral. They forgot about her.
 
I forgot she even had a husband but now that its mentioned, then yeah its kinda selfish what Steve did. Whatever happened to Sharon? He just left her in the dust

But Steve wouldn't do that. He must have figured out when he went back in time that he was always Peggy's husband. A guy like Cap wouldn't "erase" her husband and kids in order for him to have the life that he wants.
 
Quite literally, especially if she was dusted at the end of Infinity War.

I thought we'd see her at Stark's funeral. They forgot about her.
She's definitely someone that treated somewhat poorly in the MCU. I now sort of see (not multiple 40+ page threads worth) how some people thought her character got wasted because the Russo Bros didn't really know how to use her. And it's not like they couldn't have got Emily VanCamp down to Atlanta where they were filming since she currently films her tv show The Resident down there.
 
She's definitely someone that treated somewhat poorly in the MCU. I now sort of see (not multiple 40+ page threads worth) how some people thought her character got wasted because the Russo Bros didn't really know how to use her. And it's not like they couldn't have got Emily VanCamp down to Atlanta where they were filming since she currently films her tv show The Resident down there.

I think they didn't want to use her in the first place. But then why even introduce her?

They could've put her in Agents of SHIELD. She wouldn't have been too big a name for that show at all.
 
She's definitely someone that treated somewhat poorly in the MCU. I now sort of see (not multiple 40+ page threads worth) how some people thought her character got wasted because the Russo Bros didn't really know how to use her. And it's not like they couldn't have got Emily VanCamp down to Atlanta where they were filming since she currently films her tv show The Resident down there.
Quite literally, especially if she was dusted at the end of Infinity War.

I thought we'd see her at Stark's funeral. They forgot about her.
Very curious about her character. I feel like it's one of those things where they were like: "Well she's in the comics. So..." as a reason to include her.
I still think she was meant to be the female lead in TWS when you look at the short list of actresses for the role (actresses like Anna Kendrick, Emilia Clarke, Mary Elizabeth Winstead) but then they decided to use Scarlett Johannson since otherwise she doesn't do anything in Phase 2 and I'm sure there were some salary negotiations. Apparently Johannson almost wasn't in Avengers because of salary disputes.

Anyway, I also think she's one of those things that might work in the comics but then it's kinda weird when you think about it or when you see it in live action.

They could've made Sharon and just not made her Peggy's niece or something. It just was really weird what they did with her. One second she's set up for something big, then she's supposed to be a major part in Civil War, then nothing

I mean I don't care one way or another about the character. I just didn't want my boy Cap to die a virgin

I do feel kinda bad for Emily Van Camp. I'm sure she thought this was her ticket to the big time. No more mediocre forgettable ABC dramas.
 
Yeah breaking down the time rules here will make your head spin, especially since Nebula literally killed a past version of herself. You could argue that this is possible because present day Nebula is from a different timeline. And a past version of Thanos dies, which would undo the previous films. But I’m pretty sure they were insinuating that Steve always went back in time in the main timeline and he was Peggy’s secret husband all along (I don’t think we ever actually saw what her beau looked like so I’m guessing this is the reason). So yeah... when you pick it all apart, it really doesn’t make sense but I think I’ll let them slide here because the movie works as a big emotional payoff. And I honestly can’t think of any time travel movie where they cover all the bases; there’s usually something in there that doesn’t quite add up.

I think I kinda figured it out. Hear me out, this will be long but hopefully explains the main stuff! The main things confusing people are Cap going back, Gamora and Loki.

The main timeline is what we live through and see the whole way through, at no point do we see an alternate timeline. All the events play out like we have watched for the past 10 or so years, it gets to End game, they go back, and although they are in the past we are still in the main timeline. Any changes made in the past does not affect the future, this is why they can’t go back and kill baby Thanos. What they can do though is bring the stones from the past and bring everyone back.

Now Loki’s bit. When they go back they mess up and Loki gets the tesseract, this now creates a different reality, but this does not affect anything for our timeline. Cap and Stark go back further to get an early version of the tesseract. When Cap goes back at the end of the film and replaces the stones, he goes back to the point him and Tony got the tesseract from in 1970 or whatever. If you start again from this point everything plays out like the films we watched previously. When it gets to 2012 in New York, Loki still loses, he does not get the tesseract. It still needs to get to Endgames point for them to go back and that’s when Loki gets the tesseract. I think people are making the mistake of thinking Loki always got the tesseract or gets the tesseract from the first battle in New York. That’s not the case.

Gamora, this is easy, she dies in infinity war, avengers go back through time, Thanos figures out what they are doing, goes to the future with Gamora. The fact that past Thanos goes to the future does not mean that infinity war didn’t happen and could not have happened, it had to happen for them to get where they are now. Gamoras past self now exists in the future not knowing the guardians of the galaxy and probably just wanders off in the end.

Captain America. He goes back, drops off the stones but instead decides to stay in the past to live a life with Peggy. We are still in the same timeline/reality. Peggy met the original captain, he got muscles, did his bit, got frozen, the future captain probably comes back around this point and explains everything to her and lives with her whilst the other captain is frozen. There will be a point where captain America unfreezes and the future captain is now old and they both exist at the same time but this doesn’t stop the young captain doing everything he already did in the other films he knows no different. This is still the one timeline/reality. This is why old captain America is just there at the end, no machine to get back, he was already there.

We are watching the first go through. This means that when we watched the films originally Captain America was the only one, Peggy married someone else etc. It gets to Endgame, and they do the mission put everything back, the only changes is Cap decided to stay (not affecting events in any way) and Loki got a new reality created for him, we don’t see because we stick with our timeline. Hopefully this makes sense.
 
I could be wrong, but the way I interpreted it was that while Cap went back to return the stones, he returned to his past where his original self likely still made the ultimate sacrifice.

By that I mean while he got to love his life with Peggy, the other Cap was still buried in ice. Thus allowing him to be discovered and having the events of The Avengers onward still happening as they were meant to, like nothing happened.

Time travel is difficult at times though lol

That’s exactly right! Time travel in this film is different to other films, they explain that. Killing a past self does not affect a future self. The very first go through (The films we watched previously) have one Cap America, and Peggy married someone else. It gets to Endgames point Cap goes back decides to live with Peggy. I reckon he let her meet original Captain, waited till he got frozen and then went to see her to explain it all. Then they lived together. Nothing else changed. All the events still led to frozen Captain America doing everything else we watched previously.
 
I suppose the version of me that appreciates your fan theories is in the made-up third X-men timeline

Yeah, the Apocalypse/Dark Phoenix one. Glad to see you there, buddy. Terrific movies.
 
Not at all the same thing.

Ancient one referred to the stones as a weapon not a stabilizer.Weapons are for battle.Stabilizer is to maintain Balance

We have seen no evidence of an unstable Timeline that has no stones.Remember Thanos destroyed them in the Main universe.If no stones cause unstable timeline then why is MCU timeline not unstable?

And the Timeline was not fixed because it was never damaged.Alternate Timelines were simply created.

We have an Alternate Gamora as proof.

Exactly. You nailed it.
 
Nebula was from a split timeline created when the power stone was taken from 2014. So was Thanos and his army.

There ARE alternate timelines, but only when an infinity stone is removed from its proper time. Once it's put back in its proper time, the alternate timeline stops existing.



It prevents those things by erasing those timelines. None of those things happen because those timelines don't exist anymore.

Not at all. The mere presence of the time travelers altering the past, stealing and then putting back at their places the STONES, well, the mere presence creates the "branched" reality.


Another thing for the Steve was married to Peggy this whole time idea: We more or less follow the timeline as we experience each character in their present. Steve went back and returned the stones and thus prevented the parallel universes the Ancient One referenced, which restored the flow of time. But if he was just living a normal life in the background and under an assumed name or whatever, then perhaps we were experiencing the corrected timeline this whole time and just didn't know it. After all, we were following Cap in his present basically until Endgame, so if "Future Cap" was already out there in the MCU, how would we really know if he is keeping himself quiet?
It's something to think about.
Not a casual loop, but it could be possible anyway.
 
Not at all. The mere presence of the time travelers altering the past, stealing and then putting back at their places the STONES, well, the mere presence creates the "branched" reality.



Not a casual loop, but it could be possible anyway.

Bruce said to the Ancient One if they return the stones the exact second they are taken, the branches are clipped.
 
Bruce said to the Ancient One if they return the stones the exact second they are taken, the branches are clipped.

"Exact second" means:

1- There will be a time traveling Avenger returning the specific stone. His presence alters the past anyway.
2- It cannot be the "exact second", because there's already a time traveling Avenger stealing the stone to save the MCU timeline.
 
Bruce said to the Ancient One if they return the stones the exact second they are taken, the branches are clipped.
You can't do that, you would have to occupy the same space time with your former self, as the infinity stone. Unless you are not returning it the exact same second but a few seconds later, but that doesn't make sense: How much time can you take a stone out of the time stream without branching? a second? two? a minute? Why would any amount of time would be tolerated before branching?
 
It's kinda bittersweet to know that in the timeline created after 2014 Thanos went to and was killed in the main timeline, those Avengers (namely Tony & Natasha) must have had a happy ending.
 
Bruce said to the Ancient One if they return the stones the exact second they are taken, the branches are clipped.
But Bruce admitted he didn't know much at all about time travel. He wasn't the most knowledgeable and was really just trying to get the stone.
 

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