Let's Prove to Marvel that Cyclops is COOL

[PhotoJones]

Marvel seems to be putting serious effort into making Scott awesome again.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

If I don't quote it or respond, I agree with what you said...it's just a rather lengthly post, so I just thought I'd do that rather than highlight everything.

Fair enough, but certain characters in that list, specifically Hawkeye, Psylocke, Gambit and Cyclops, I would find it rediculous if they DIDN'T have some sort of martial arts skills, just based on their character and situation. Just because it's been overdone doesn't mean it shouldn't be done in certain cases.

I'm more pointing out the transition from western style fighting techniques which would involve basic boxing/kickboxing to standard ground grappling. That's what happened in the eighties. Frank Miller, who was a fan of eastern style fighting rewrote several street level types (Batman and DareDevil) to having this ninjuitsu training (actually the use of that term is misused) and all these very special skills they didn't have before. With Batman and DareDevil though, it made sense. They had training from childhood to know how to fight, had studied under various tudors (now turned into sensei's) and so the retcon of making them into eastern style fighters was easy.

However, later on it became semi-ridiculous. We all know Clint Barton was a trained brawler, but now he's sporting swords and ninja stars. It's not his specialty. He's a bowman first. It's like assuming I'd make a great basketball player because I played Rugby or boxed. Outside of the fact that, yes, most superheroics involve some instincts that make for good fighters doesn't mean all of the sudden you're going to be have all this knowledge about martial arts. It's kind of along the lines of Keanu Reeves favorite old line "I know Kung Fu", like Kung Fu is just some skill you can pull out your butt or learn in the very seldom amount of freetime your life allows you.

As for Psylocke...again, they had her exchange bodies with a trained assassine. Like they just needed some plot device to make her a ninja. Not saying I dislike ninja Psylocke, just saying it was just another incident of comics overdoing the ninja aspect made popular by Miller and others.

I understand that, but to me, it seems within Cyclops' character to practice blind fighting... enough to take on some street toughs. I don't know why Daredevil would practice blind fighting, he has no reason to anticipate losing his powers, nor is an OCD tactician.

DareDevil used to lose his powers a lot. It was a storyline done at least twice by Stan Lee, and I think Roy Thomas used it more than once as well. Plus, originally, when DareDevil got his powers he more or less was totally blind...even though his senses were accute, he couldn't make heads or tails of them.

I liked that scene as well, but I interpreted it as Cyclops being a practiced fighter, simply not a professional, which is why Ninjas can take him out and security guards can't touch him.

(Even though I said this at the top)...yeah, basically agree with everything here.

Well, it was my understanding that Cyclops cannot control the intensity of his blasts without his visor

No he can do it on his own. Case in point: when he first met Pryor to demonstrate his powers he took off his glasses and punched a hole through a nickel perfectly down the center.

It just struck me... would spatial awareness help a blind fighter? That would lend a great deal of credibility to the fight in question.

I thought of this too...but I don't know. I've never seen him use it without using his powers. It has more to do with geometry though than actually knowing where things are around him (i.e. DD or Sticks promixity sense), so I think he actually has to see what he is shooting in order for him to be spacially aware.

It's in essence like being able to "see" angles, like what a pool player does on a pool table I think.

As it should. But barring that line of logic... what else does Cyclops do all day...

Well, apparently he has a couple of hobbies. He is a fan of movies, particularly ones starring Jimmy Stewart. He is also a fan of the Three Stooges. I know he does a lot of reading on tactics and such...plus now he has a school to run, students to teach and a team to manage. Those three things alone are full time jobs.

how does he round out the weaknesses without resorting to getting some hand to hand fighting skill...

I've personally never bought that the training, outside of DR simulations, is very intense at the Xavier mansion. In Uncanny 175 Cyclops claims to be behind on his exercise (the issue he defeated the X-Men), then again in X-Factor, while weight lifting, Scott claims it had been a long while since he had done so. I'm sure he works hard, but the comics have always seemed to suggest that the X-Men kind of training themselves in what they saw fit. We know Wolverine and Asian Psylocke were martial artists by trade, that they did a lot of their own personal training, but outside of DR sessions which are power oriented, I've never seen Cyclops train in H2H (and I have all his appearances on this computer).

 

[Jplaya2023]

cyclops is overrated, he just blast people, no fighting style, no speed, no power, no special techniques, just optic blast.

no hate, but those are facts.

still no refuting this

 

[Phenomenal]

Jplaya you can't refute CANON! And you broke Cyclops down to a T.

 

[GL1]

still no refuting this

What thread have you been reading? All that got shot down a long time ago, typically with pictures?

And who has rated Cyclops so highly that he hasn't measured up to, or do you not actually know what "overrated" means?

If I don't quote it or respond, I agree with what you said...it's just a rather lengthly post, so I just thought I'd do that rather than highlight everything.

I'm more pointing out the transition from western style fighting techniques which would involve basic boxing/kickboxing to standard ground grappling. That's what happened in the eighties. Frank Miller, who was a fan of eastern style fighting rewrote several street level types (Batman and DareDevil) to having this ninjuitsu training (actually the use of that term is misused) and all these very special skills they didn't have before. With Batman and DareDevil though, it made sense. They had training from childhood to know how to fight, had studied under various tudors (now turned into sensei's) and so the retcon of making them into eastern style fighters was easy.

However, later on it became semi-ridiculous. We all know Clint Barton was a trained brawler, but now he's sporting swords and ninja stars. It's not his specialty. He's a bowman first. It's like assuming I'd make a great basketball player because I played Rugby or boxed. Outside of the fact that, yes, most superheroics involve some instincts that make for good fighters doesn't mean all of the sudden you're going to be have all this knowledge about martial arts. It's kind of along the lines of Keanu Reeves favorite old line "I know Kung Fu", like Kung Fu is just some skill you can pull out your butt or learn in the very seldom amount of freetime your life allows you.

As for Psylocke...again, they had her exchange bodies with a trained assassine. Like they just needed some plot device to make her a ninja. Not saying I dislike ninja Psylocke, just saying it was just another incident of comics overdoing the ninja aspect made popular by Miller and others.

DareDevil used to lose his powers a lot. It was a storyline done at least twice by Stan Lee, and I think Roy Thomas used it more than once as well. Plus, originally, when DareDevil got his powers he more or less was totally blind...even though his senses were accute, he couldn't make heads or tails of them.

(Even though I said this at the top)...yeah, basically agree with everything here.

No he can do it on his own. Case in point: when he first met Pryor to demonstrate his powers he took off his glasses and punched a hole through a nickel perfectly down the center.

I thought of this too...but I don't know. I've never seen him use it without using his powers. It has more to do with geometry though than actually knowing where things are around him (i.e. DD or Sticks promixity sense), so I think he actually has to see what he is shooting in order for him to be spacially aware.

It's in essence like being able to "see" angles, like what a pool player does on a pool table I think.

Well, apparently he has a couple of hobbies. He is a fan of movies, particularly ones starring Jimmy Stewart. He is also a fan of the Three Stooges. I know he does a lot of reading on tactics and such...plus now he has a school to run, students to teach and a team to manage. Those three things alone are full time jobs.

I've personally never bought that the training, outside of DR simulations, is very intense at the Xavier mansion. In Uncanny 175 Cyclops claims to be behind on his exercise (the issue he defeated the X-Men), then again in X-Factor, while weight lifting, Scott claims it had been a long while since he had done so. I'm sure he works hard, but the comics have always seemed to suggest that the X-Men kind of training themselves in what they saw fit. We know Wolverine and Asian Psylocke were martial artists by trade, that they did a lot of their own personal training, but outside of DR sessions which are power oriented, I've never seen Cyclops train in H2H (and I have all his appearances on this computer).

Well, I gotta admit, it sounds like you're right.

I still have a couple nitpicks... Cyclops should not be able to control the intensity of his blasts without his visor (your example doesn't show that he can, only the size), otherwise his angst (and visor) would be pointless... he could just walk down the street emitting negligible force like he's shining a big red flashlight on people... and Daredevil, despite the frequency of the stories wouldn't anticipate losing his powers the same way that Cyclops would anticipate losing his goggles.

And while I agree that the training at Xavier's isn't intense on it's own, I feel that Cyclops sees fit to train a little harder than many of his compatriots... just cuz he's so anal.

 

[CBG]

cyclops is overrated, he just blast people, no fighting style, no speed, no power, no special techniques, just optic blast.

no hate, but those are facts.

Wrong again, Jplaya2023.

He is actually trained in martial arts. His optic blasts are quite powerful, and he has the potential to do more like Havoc if Scott wanted to.

Plus, he's a telepathic pimp.

still no refuting this

Says you, which is hardly any weight.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I still have a couple nitpicks... Cyclops should not be able to control the intensity of his blasts without his visor (your example doesn't show that he can, only the size), otherwise his angst (and visor) would be pointless... he could just walk down the street emitting negligible force like he's shining a big red flashlight on people...

He's actually just angsty about openning his eyes in general, because the fact is he controls his blasts even with his visor/sunglasses on. He has he has to, or else the blast would be so strong it would rip the visor/glasses right off his face. Even worse, Cyclops has once commented that if he didn't control it he would not "be sure it would just come out his eyes"...and there have been past indications he may be right about this.

So while I think the visor controls the blast intensity to an extent, I think it's more on his face for practical purposes.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

still no refuting this

 

[ShadowBoxing]

And while I agree that the training at Xavier's isn't intense on it's own, I feel that Cyclops sees fit to train a little harder than many of his compatriots... just cuz he's so anal.

With comics, the only thing I know is what I read or see. In Banshee, Captain America and Wolverine's case I know, from previous issues, they run 20 mile distance runs a few times a week (in the mornings). In Batman's case I see him train in his personal caves with weights and heavy bags, using martial arts moves on dummies and sparring partners at least one or two times in a years worth of issues. With DareDevil, his trips down to his rented out gym were frequent. Wolverine is shown often wearing his little ninja outfit, training on the grounds.

Cyclops...nada...as far as I know his training predominently includes trips to the danger room on OMEGA setting, using the old lethal equipment (instead of holograms). I've seen him weight train, albeit not much. I've seen him play pool with his eyes. I've even seen him practicing trick shots. The rest, I haven't seen. So, that's what I go by. That's why it bugs me to pull skills out of his ass. You need some basis so when I see him do it I go "yeah, he trains in that".

 

[CBG]

I always wondered. . . who'd win in a geometry-angle-shot contest between Cyclops and Revolver Ocelot?

 

[Jplaya2023]

x-over's as absurd as this one is considered non canon

it holds no weight

 

[Phenomenal]

Please don't post crossovers...Unless you guys want me to post Venom pwning Superman's ass in all access.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Please don't post crossovers...Unless you guys want me to post Venom pwning Superman's ass in all access.

post it dawg

 

[CBG]

x-over's as absurd as this one is considered non canon

it holds no weight

And the same goes for the Batman and Daredevil you like to throw about. Hypocritical much?

 

[Jplaya2023]

And the same goes for the Batman and Daredevil you like to throw about. Hypocritical much?

that's canon

 

[CBG]

that's canon

In the same vein as the comic scan ShadowBoxing. You're being a hypocrite now.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

that's canon

No it isn't. At least no moreso than All Access. DareDevil and Batman don't even live in the same Universe. DareDevil, like Cyclops, is a Marvel...not a DC.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

x-over's as absurd as this one is considered non canon

it holds no weight

Okay, JPlaya2023. What is canon? What exactly is the canonical DC and Marvel Universes then? What are their names?..they have names.

 

[hippie_hunter]

that's canon

x-over's as absurd as this one is considered non canon

it holds no weight

I swear to god you're the biggest idiot on these forums

No DC/Marvel crossover is in canon. Superman never fought Venom. Batman never got blasted by Cyclops' eye beam or whatever you call it.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

cyclops withemma is a great relationship, the dyanmic between the two is really intersting. whedon makes the relationship works.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

cyclops withemma is a great relationship, the dyanmic between the two is really intersting. whedon makes the relationship works.

He really does. Cyclops has been pretty much back to true form since AXM #1. I think the ninties with Scott and Jean was good, but rereading them it seems Jean's only true purpose to the story was as "Scott's wife". Her story was told with UXM #137, and everything since then is pointless rehashing of her character. I think Emma brings something new to the table because between the too they both have something to lose. Emma is independent, she isn't Scott's "one true love", and she has a questionable past. There is a lot of ground to be covered there.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I swear to god you're the biggest idiot on these forums

No DC/Marvel crossover is in canon. Superman never fought Venom. Batman never got blasted by Cyclops' eye beam or whatever you call it.

JLA/Avengers is canon for the DC universe, actually. It was referenced in a JLA arc by Busiek.

 

[PhotoJones]

How was it referenced, exactly?

 

[CBG]

How was it referenced, exactly?

JLA and the Crime Syndicate of Amerika fought over the Cosmic Egg, if I remember right.

JLA were also checking up on said egg earlier. Metron made a appearance, I think.

 

[hippie_hunter]

JLA/Avengers is canon for the DC universe, actually. It was referenced in a JLA arc by Busiek.

I like to think that it's no longer in canon for New Earth

Seriously, DC/Marvel crossovers should never be in canon. EVER! All it'll do is spur more stupid Hulk/Spider-Man/Batman fanboys like jplaya.