Sequels Lex Corp

[Jakomus]

Lex Corp would remove Luthor's ingenuity. It would just be used as a Deus Ex Machina for Lex.

 

[Kroc1138]

Corporate Lex is a far better villain than Superman, because he is truly Superman's opposite. Lex represents the worst of America: greed, arrogance and ruthlessness, while Superman represents the best of America: kindness, compansion and mercy. That's a far better dynamic than superman vs. a generic mad scienctist.

Correct but the general problem with this Lex is that he isn't proactive in himself to try to deal with Superman. He isn't (can't be) bold. Another aspect that makes him interesting is that he is so bold to try to challenge a Godlike being and he can sometimes succede.

Simplistically, Lex should be a Mental challenge to Superman. That's what the character should be about.

Plus Post crisis has a better motive, he is jealous of superman, angry about how he is no longer the most powerful man in Metropolis and he believes Superman is a threat, because Lex is corrupt, he believes Superman will become corrupt and will impose his will on the Earth,

The Jelousy angle os dead on but the latter part of your explanarion is embellished. Luthor for the most part has never really had any delusions as to what he really is. He may see himself in that light publically, but he knows he's not a nice guy.

Lex sees himself as Earth's defender who has a duty to stop an alien invader with the more power than any one being should have. That is far more interesting than being mad at Superman because he lost his hair.

While you are right that PreCrisis Lex's Motivation for hating Superman is truly absurd. I think you might be embellishing a bit on what Lex thinks of himself.(as a savior) Post Crisis Still portrayed him as a megalomaniac who was jelous of Superman. It's my opinion that Post Crisis Lex should be on Films b/c he in the end is just a brooding secondary Villain. Lex should be more, and I think that again combining both versions can work.

 

[Kroc1138]

Lex Corp would remove Luthor's ingenuity. It would just be used as a Deus Ex Machina for Lex.

It also Sets potentially bad Precident of Rehashing. Plus Luthor can't be a proactive Villain b/c he is a Public figure.

 

[Jakomus]

It also Sets potentially bad Precident of Rehashing. Plus Luthor can't be a proactive Villain b/c he is a Public figure.

Not to mention the evil corporate businessman angle got old in the 80's.

 

[The Overlord]

Correct but the general problem with this Lex is that he isn't proactive in himself to try to deal with Superman. He isn't (can't be) bold. Another aspect that makes him interesting is that he is so bold to try to challenge a Godlike being and he can sometimes succede.

Simplistically, Lex should be a Mental challenge to Superman. That's what the character should be about.

The Jelousy angle os dead on but the latter part of your explanarion is embellished. Luthor for the most part has never really had any delusions as to what he really is. He may see himself in that light publically, but he knows he's not a nice guy.

While you are right that PreCrisis Lex's Motivation for hating Superman is truly absurd. I think you might be embellishing a bit on what Lex thinks of himself.(as a savior) Post Crisis Still portrayed him as a megalomaniac who was jelous of Superman. It's my opinion that Post Crisis Lex should be on Films b/c he in the end is just a brooding secondary Villain. Lex should be more, and I think that again combining both versions can work.

In the pre crisis universe all Lex did when being a public villain is end up in jail. Now who seems more intelligent to you, the Lex who contolled a major corporate empire and had influence around the world or the Lex ended by sharing a cell with Bubbha the love sponge?

 

[The Overlord]

Not to mention the evil corporate businessman angle got old in the 80's.

The mad scientist angle got old in the 50s.

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Bryan Singer: Superman was in a comic book, get out!!!!

I did see a few homages to the comics in the film.

You know, none of that "Bryan Singer says" stuff is mildly amusing. It's pretty much ******ed.

 

[Spike_x1]

I've gotten a few laughs out of some of them.

 

[Jakomus]

The mad scientist angle got old in the 50s.

WOW. Very witty and clever.

Lex Luthor isn't a mad scientist in SR.

 

[Spike_x1]

WOW. Very witty and clever.

Lex Luthor isn't a mad scientist in SR.

Lex might've only worn business suits throughout the movie (except in the museum scene), but he was still the mad scientist of pre-crisis years. He stole Krytonian technology and tried to grow his own continent, for Pete's sakes. If that's not mad science at its prime, than I'd like to see what is.

The fact that he was going to capitalize on it doesn't change it from being mad science in the least. Lex's final intent might have been business oriented, but the means by which he went about it (and the whole plan in general) was pure science fiction, as well as being villainous; therefore, we have mad science.

 

[Jakomus]

I don't agree with that quote. By that logic, any time post-crisis Lex uses kryptonite on Superman he is a mad scientist.

 

[Spike_x1]

You're misinterpretted that to a very large degree. There's a big storytelling difference between using a small green rock and trying to grow your own continent out of alien technology.

 

[Jakomus]

You're misinterpretted that to a very large degree. There's a big storytelling difference between using a small green rock and trying to grow your own continent out of alien technology.

That small green rock is also alien. In both cases, Luthor is using them to get rid of Superman.

 

[Spike_x1]

One is just science to get rid of Superman. The other is stolen alien technology used to get rid of Superman, sink the world's other landmasses, and would have eventually resulted in the extinction of the human race.

Big difference.

 

[Superman79]

the testimony/witnesses of Lois Lane[top level reporter],Richard white [newphew of Perry white], SUPERMAN[who can provide proof], Jason White, among many other things. so no the chances of Lex starting Luthor corp after trying to destroy America is 0 percent.

That would only work so far...that and what law did he break? There is no 100% sure way to like the quakes and tidal wave to New kryp. So really, he's not guilty of violating any laws by conducting an "experiment" which is what he could pawn it off as despite what Lois and Co. might say.

 

[GL1]

Lex might've only worn business suits throughout the movie (except in the museum scene), but he was still the mad scientist of pre-crisis years. He stole Krytonian technology and tried to grow his own continent, for Pete's sakes. If that's not mad science at its prime, than I'd like to see what is.

The fact that he was going to capitalize on it doesn't change it from being mad science in the least. Lex's final intent might have been business oriented, but the means by which he went about it (and the whole plan in general) was pure science fiction, as well as being villainous; therefore, we have mad science.

So all Sci-Fi villains are mad scientists? If so, what's so bad about that? Darth Vader, Q, heck... Sinestro and his Alien technology, all Mad Scientists. You make it sound as thought Lex can't be a mad scientist and a legitimage businessman at the same time. He's been doing it in the comics for years.

Also, notice that in every medium Lex appears in, he gradually moves towards the Mad Science angle. Why is that. Because the only way a human can attack Superman is with either magic or technology and, for a businessman like Lex, developing technology is so natural. The other option is for Lex to be a non-threat... a cameo. Either be a non-threat cameo with some good lines or join the ranks of the greatest villains of myth and defeat Gods. What would a businessman like Lex choose?

Also, this Mad Scientist thing is misinterpreted:

1) The only thing that SR and Pre-Crisis Lex had in common was technically both being "Mad Scientists." SR Lex was not crazy, neither anti-social nor stuck in a lab,

2) Mad Science doesn't mean you have to be crazy. Any eccentricity or unconventional thinking qualifies you to be a "mad" scientist.

3) No actual scientific work is actually required to be a Mad Scientist. If you use alien technology, (and are unconventional or villainous in it's use) you are a mad scientist. Press a button, you are a mad scientist by definition, whether you actually do anything scientific with it or not. That's why Darth Vader, using midiclorians and the force is a mad scientist, as well as Sinestro, using Qwardian tech, is also a mad scientist. No science is requred to be a "mad scientist" only fictional technology.

In short, while SR Lex Luthor was a mad scientist, and so was Pre-Crisis, Lex Luthor was neither Mad, nor much of a scientist. How this makes his character "like Pre-Crisis" or less engaging than a sedentary Businessman, I do not know. I do know that the movie showed that nothing Earthly can stand up to Superman... as it well should be.

 

[Katsuro]

Bryan Singer :

What the hell is Lexcorp? That wasn't in Richard Donner's film!

venom420 : My opinions are worthless and you should ignore me. I don't know what I'm talking about.

Look, I can falsely quote people too! Maybe I should put that in my sig...

 

[Jakomus]

One is just science to get rid of Superman. The other is stolen alien technology used to get rid of Superman, sink the world's other landmasses, and would have eventually resulted in the extinction of the human race.

Big difference.

I see your problem. You would rather have a mediocre businessman villain than a villain with an interesting plot. Why? Because you're ashamed of being a comic book fan. You want the general public to see a 'realistic' Superman film because you're scared they will make fun of a film with -gasp- strong fantasy elements!

It's a common problem with post-crisis Superman fans.

 

[The Overlord]

I see your problem. You would rather have a mediocre businessman villain than a villain with an interesting plot. Why? Because you're ashamed of being a comic book fan. You want the general public to see a 'realistic' Superman film because you're scared they will make fun of a film with -gasp- strong fantasy elements!

It's a common problem with post-crisis Superman fans.

Interesting plot? Lex's plot was total crap, a six year old could have come up with a better plot. If Lex had created alien tech weapons to conquer the world and battle superman, that would have been better than a bad real estate scam.

 

[GL1]

Interesting plot? Lex's plot was total crap, a six year old could have come up with a better plot. If Lex had created alien tech weapons to conquer the world and battle superman, that would have been better than a bad real estate scam.

So it would have been better to make a big kryptonian warship, and learn how to fly it and shoot it and all that, than to just make a big kryptonite landmass.

No, the only thing Lex's plot missed was mindless action. Sounds good to me.

 

[Spike_x1]

So all Sci-Fi villains are mad scientists?

Where did I say that?

If so, what's so bad about that? Darth Vader, Q, heck... Sinestro and his Alien technology, all Mad Scientists. You make it sound as thought Lex can't be a mad scientist and a legitimage businessman at the same time. He's been doing it in the comics for years.

Also, notice that in every medium Lex appears in, he gradually moves towards the Mad Science angle. Why is that. Because the only way a human can attack Superman is with either magic or technology and, for a businessman like Lex, developing technology is so natural. The other option is for Lex to be a non-threat... a cameo. Either be a non-threat cameo with some good lines or join the ranks of the greatest villains of myth and defeat Gods. What would a businessman like Lex choose?

A businessman like Lex would have made the land of NK appealing for people to live on and would've planted it in a place where it wouldn't kill billions of people. He also would have used the Kryptonian technology to make money and actually start a business, hence the whole "businessman" title that he seems to have acquired, even though he did nothing business oriented in the actual movie.

Also, this Mad Scientist thing is misinterpreted:

1) The only thing that SR and Pre-Crisis Lex had in common was technically both being "Mad Scientists." SR Lex was not crazy, neither anti-social nor stuck in a lab,

2) Mad Science doesn't mean you have to be crazy. Any eccentricity or unconventional thinking qualifies you to be a "mad" scientist.

He seemed pretty crazy to me. He was going to kill a zillion people with his radioactive island, sink a good chunk of North America, he didn't create any weapons to defend his island with (NK's defence should've been Lex's first priority), and did he actually think that the rest of the world would've let him get away with his actions? Without weapons, it's not like he could've prevented a military force from kicking his ass.

Maybe he wasn't stark raving mad and waving his arms around, but yes, SR's Lex did seem pretty crazy, IMHO.

3) No actual scientific work is actually required to be a Mad Scientist. If you use alien technology, (and are unconventional or villainous in it's use) you are a mad scientist. Press a button, you are a mad scientist by definition, whether you actually do anything scientific with it or not. That's why Darth Vader, using midiclorians and the force is a mad scientist, as well as Sinestro, using Qwardian tech, is also a mad scientist. No science is requred to be a "mad scientist" only fictional technology.

I don't agree with that at all. Yes, fictional technology is often a large part of being a mad scientist, but actually being a scientist is also part of the job description.

In short, while SR Lex Luthor was a mad scientist, and so was Pre-Crisis, Lex Luthor was neither Mad, nor much of a scientist. How this makes his character "like Pre-Crisis" or less engaging than a sedentary Businessman, I do not know. I do know that the movie showed that nothing Earthly can stand up to Superman... as it well should be.

He was a scientist in SR. He learned all about the kryptonian technology and how to manipulate it at the Fortress. He came to understand the science of it all, and therefore, we have ourselves a scientist.

And as for Post-Crisis Lex, yes, he is a scientist as well, but he's not often depicted as a Mad scientist (at least he wasn't depicted that way before a couple years ago).

 

[Spike_x1]

I see your problem. You would rather have a mediocre businessman villain than a villain with an interesting plot. Why? Because you're ashamed of being a comic book fan. You want the general public to see a 'realistic' Superman film because you're scared they will make fun of a film with -gasp- strong fantasy elements!

It's a common problem with post-crisis Superman fans.

You're assuming waaay too much here and putting words in my mouth . At least GL1 can debate intelligently.

 

[GL1]

Where did I say that?

He stole Krytonian technology and tried to grow his own continent, for Pete's sakes. If that's not mad science at its prime, than I'd like to see what is.

The use of alien tech to kill people makes him a mad science... or if he was an alien using his own fictional tech, he wouldn't be a mad scientist?

A businessman like Lex would have made the land of NK appealing for people to live on and would've planted it in a place where it wouldn't kill billions of people. He also would have used the Kryptonian technology to make money and actually start a business, hence the whole "businessman" title that he seems to have acquired, even though he did nothing business oriented in the actual movie.He seemed pretty crazy to me. He was going to kill a zillion people with his radioactive island, sink a good chunk of North America, he didn't create any weapons to defend his island with (NK's defence should've been Lex's first priority), and did he actually think that the rest of the world would've let him get away with his actions? Without weapons, it's not like he could've prevented a military force from kicking his ass.

I think the movie was pretty clear that he was just putting his plan into action. There's no reason to think Lex wasn't going to make his land appealing and create/acquire weaponry before he went on the market.

Also, killing people does not make it not business. Post Crisis lex kills people a plenty, but it doesn't make him not a businessman. Being a killer doesn't mean you're crazy either, that's why crazy people go to asylums and normal killers go to prison.

And again, even if the military had miraculously figured out that Lex Luthor was the creator of this mysterious island and mounted a full force attack, a flick of the wrist would have turned all of their weaponry off.

Maybe he wasn't stark raving mad and waving his arms around, but yes, SR's Lex did seem pretty crazy, IMHO.I don't agree with that at all. Yes, fictional technology is often a large part of being a mad scientist, but actually being a scientist is also part of the job description.He was a scientist in SR. He learned all about the kryptonian technology and how to manipulate it at the Fortress. He came to understand the science of it all, and therefore, we have ourselves a scientist.

I disagree. He learned how to operate technology. Every office worker is not a computer scientist. The only science he demonstrated was combining Kryptonite with the info crystals. We can say he knew some things about the kryptonian tech, but, having some knowledge you don't use or care about hardly makes you a scientist either. He may have been a scientist, and had information to do more science, but he wasn't actually doing anything I didn't learn in fourth grade.

And as for Post-Crisis Lex, yes, he is a scientist as well, but he's not often depicted as a Mad scientist (at least he wasn't depicted that way before a couple years ago).

Yes, Post Crisis Lex is less eccentric, and therefore "less mad" and definitely less useful in a storyline as a villain. It takes an eccentric genious like SR or Pre-Crisis or Post-Presidency lex to matter in a Superman story. Otherwise, Lex is just a supporting character, easily replaced by Justin Hammer, Wilson Fisk, Ted Kord or an angry Bruce Wayne.

 

[Spike_x1]

edit

 

[Spike_x1]

The use of alien tech to kill people makes him a mad science... or if he was an alien using his own fictional tech, he wouldn't be a mad scientist?

It would depend entirely on how the role is written and played out.

I think the movie was pretty clear that he was just putting his plan into action. There's no reason to think Lex wasn't going to make his land appealing and create/acquire weaponry before he went on the market.

There's no way people would've paid money to live on that island after it (hypothetically) killed billions of people. Living on New Krypton would be like living on the graves of all the people who died. No one would be so indecent as to live on that rock, no matter what shine Lex puts on it to try and attract customers.

And about the lack of defensive measures on NK, if Lex could create kryptonian weaponry, why wasn't that the first thing he did? One would think that defences would be a top priority and Lex would want to have them set up in advance. Thank God the military was mysteriously absent from the climax of SR. If Lex could defend himself, it's crazy that he decided not to.

Also, killing people does not make it not business. Post Crisis lex kills people a plenty, but it doesn't make him not a businessman. Being a killer doesn't mean you're crazy either, that's why crazy people go to asylums and normal killers go to prison.

Post-Crisis Lex doesn't kill on the scale that SR Lex was planning to do, and he doesn't make it public like SR's Lex was going to do, either.

And again, even if the military had miraculously figured out that Lex Luthor was the creator of this mysterious island and mounted a full force attack, a flick of the wrist would have turned all of their weaponry off.

Lex was going to open New Krypton for business, making it obvious that he was responsible for the sinking of the East Coast. If someone then decided to walk up to him with a hand gun and shoot him to avenge all of those lost, shutting off electronics wouldn't save Lex at all.

I disagree. He learned how to operate technology. Every office worker is not a computer scientist. The only science he demonstrated was combining Kryptonite with the info crystals. We can say he knew some things about the kryptonian tech, but, having some knowledge you don't use or care about hardly makes you a scientist either. He may have been a scientist, and had information to do more science, but he wasn't actually doing anything I didn't learn in fourth grade.

In the FOS, when he said "tell me everything" and Kitty later said that they spent weeks (I think it was weeks) at the Fortress while Lex studied, he had to have been learning something other than the fact that the tech grows in water and incorporates minerals into it. By asking Jor-el to tell him everything, it's implied that Lex learned everything.

Yes, Post Crisis Lex is less eccentric, and therefore "less mad" and definitely less useful in a storyline as a villain. It takes an eccentric genious like SR or Pre-Crisis or Post-Presidency lex to matter in a Superman story. Otherwise, Lex is just a supporting character, easily replaced by Justin Hammer, Wilson Fisk, Ted Kord or an angry Bruce Wayne.

This is your opinion and you're entitled to it. Personally, it's my opinion that DC Comics already has their fair share of evil scientists and they don't need another. Businessman Lex was something more. He was the guy who manipulated the mad scientists and turned their creations against them while using them to battle Superman, and then came out smelling like a rose in the public's eye. And Superman was helpless to stop him. With Pre-Crisis Lex, Superman could just punch him out and throw him in jail.