Amazon's Rings of Power - General Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[Marvolo]

so will they be casting some POC in any roles or would that just warrant the launching of a million internet trolls?

Depends. They shouldnt be casting POC for any characters that dont come from Rhûn or have ancestors from Rhûn. Middle Earth is modeled on Anglo-Saxon Britain and is predominantly white just like the British isles were in the first millennium AD. So the cast should be either entirely or mostly white. And there definitely shouldnt be any dark skinned elves. There shouldnt be any Asian actors playing elves either unless they are going to cast Asian actors in all the elvish roles. Elves should be a much more homogeneous race/species than humans.

But this is Amazon and they'll want to act woke so I expect them to copy what's being done with Witcher and cast POC actors in roles even when it makes no good ****ing sense.

 

[Marvolo]

Not if that's easy to defeat and it often gets ignored.

Being able to claim it isnt the same as it being a cake walk. Also I think youre ignoring some of what the ring could do which is unite and bend the will of the infernal races and creatures and totally corrupt the wearer. Also there is what it represents. It's a symbol of total power and a malevolent power at that.

 

[THORin]

Depends. They shouldnt be casting POC for any characters that dont come from Rhûn or have ancestors from Rhûn. Middle Earth is modeled on Anglo-Saxon Britain and is predominantly white just like the British isles were in the first millennium AD. So the cast should be either entirely or mostly white. And there definitely shouldnt be any dark skinned elves. There shouldnt be any Asian actors playing elves either unless they are going to cast Asian actors in all the elvish roles. Elves should be a much more homogeneous race/species than humans.

But this is Amazon and they'll want to act woke so I expect them to copy what's being done with Witcher and cast POC actors in roles even when it makes no good ****ing sense.

Uh, well, aside from the Druedain or the Haradrim, as well: also, Harfoot hobbits are described as having brown skin, as were most men of Gondor.

 

[THORin]

I mean, didn't Luthien basically beat Sauron in a fight? Wasn't exactly a Zack Snyder kung fu battle, but she did beat him, didn't she?

Yes, but she lived in the First Age.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yes, but she lived in the First Age.

She still beat Morgoth's top lieutenant.

 

[THORin]

She still beat Morgoth's top lieutenant.

But are you using this as an example of diversity or of someone being stronger than Sauron? If it’s the first, then yeah, she’s an incredible and empowering character. If the latter, well, then (a) she was the daughter of a demigoddess no less powerful than Sauron himself, (b) inherited magical powers from her mother and (c) Sauron was much less powerful in those days.

 

[TheVileOne]

But are you using this as an example of diversity or of someone being stronger than Sauron? If it’s the first, then yeah, she’s an incredible and empowering character. If the latter, well, then (a) she was the daughter of a demigoddess no less powerful than Sauron himself, (b) inherited magical powers from her mother and (c) Sauron was much less powerful in those days.

I'm using this as an example of strong female heroines existing within the Legendarium who are not fan fiction Mary Sues like Tauriel.

 

[THORin]

I'm using this as an example of strong female heroines existing within the Legendarium who are not fan fiction Mary Sues like Tauriel.

Oh! Then yeah, I completely agree. Couldn’t agree more. Lúthien is incredible.

 

[Abudefduf]

It was Huan the dog who defeated Sauron, not Luthien

 

[THORin]

It was Huan the dog who defeated Sauron, not Luthien

I’d argue otherwise: it was her magic that finally stopped him and broke Tol in-Gaurhoth.

 

[Abudefduf]

But it was Huan who physically fought and defeated Sauron. If not for him Luthien would've died... IIRC when Sauron attacked her she passed out.

 

[THORin]

But it was Huan who physically fought and defeated Sauron. If not for him Luthien would've died... IIRC when Sauron attacked her she passed out.

Well, I’ve got the Silmarillion right here, and here’s what it says:
“So great was the horror of his [Sauron’s] approach that Huan leaped aside. Then Sauron sprang upon Lúthien; and she swooned before the menace of his foul eyes and the foul vapor of his breath. But even as he came, falling she cast a fold of her dark cloak before his eyes; and he stumbled, for a fleeting drowsiness came upon him. Then Huan sprang. There befell the battle of Huan and Wolf-Sauron...
Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form: but he could not elude the grip of Huan without forsaking his body utterly. Lúthien came to him and said that he should be stripped of his raiment of flesh, and his ghost be sent quaking back to Morgoth. Then Sauron yielded himself, and Lúthien took the mastery of the isle, and Huan released him.”

Make of that what you will, but to me it sounds like Lúthien won that fight.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Is this being filmed this year?

 

[Abudefduf]

Well, I’ve got the Silmarillion right here, and here’s what it says:
“So great was the horror of his [Sauron’s] approach that Huan leaped aside. Then Sauron sprang upon Lúthien; and she swooned before the menace of his foul eyes and the foul vapor of his breath. But even as he came, falling she cast a fold of her dark cloak before his eyes; and he stumbled, for a fleeting drowsiness came upon him. Then Huan sprang. There befell the battle of Huan and Wolf-Sauron...
Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form: but he could not elude the grip of Huan without forsaking his body utterly. Lúthien came to him and said that he should be stripped of his raiment of flesh, and his ghost be sent quaking back to Morgoth. Then Sauron yielded himself, and Lúthien took the mastery of the isle, and Huan released him.”

Make of that what you will, but to me it sounds like Lúthien won that fight.

You omitted this part

There befell the battle of Huan and Wolf-Sauron, and howls and baying echoed in the hills, and the watchers on the walls of Ered Wethrin across the valley heard it afar and were dismayed. But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom, nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor; and he took his foe by the throat and pinned him down.

It was Huan who physically defeated him, to the point that Sauron's spirit was about to leave his body.

Beaten by a dog. Another humiliation for Sauron. He's still better than his master, though.

 

[THORin]

You omitted this partIt was Huan who physically defeated him, to the point that Sauron's spirit was about to leave his body.

Beaten by a dog. Another humiliation for Sauron. He's still better than his master, though.

Okay, it was Huan who physically defeated him, but Lúthien had no small part in the defeat, and she also destroyed Sauron’s stronghold with her own magic.

 

[Persona]

Is this being filmed this year?

I believe it has to start filming this year in order to fulfill the rights requirements.

Given that they are currently in the writing stages, I wouldn't expect them to start filming until very late in the year.

 

[Boom]

My understanding is that 2021 is the target, but there are executives in Amazon hoping to have it out by 2020.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I believe it has to start filming this year in order to fulfill the rights requirements.

Given that they are currently in the writing stages, I wouldn't expect them to start filming until very late in the year.

Thank you.

 

[KevTravels]

Depends. They shouldnt be casting POC for any characters that dont come from Rhûn or have ancestors from Rhûn. Middle Earth is modeled on Anglo-Saxon Britain and is predominantly white just like the British isles were in the first millennium AD. So the cast should be either entirely or mostly white. And there definitely shouldnt be any dark skinned elves. There shouldnt be any Asian actors playing elves either unless they are going to cast Asian actors in all the elvish roles. Elves should be a much more homogeneous race/species than humans.

But this is Amazon and they'll want to act woke so I expect them to copy what's being done with Witcher and cast POC actors in roles even when it makes no good ****ing sense.

I concur. If they cast POC in roles; I just hope it makes actual sense rather than just sticking them in there and giving them nothing to do ala BBC having a Black Achilles in that crap Trojan war series.

 

[Silvermoth]

What does that even mean though? So if there’s a black hobbit there has to be a reason or something?

 

[TheVileOne]

What does that even mean though? So if there’s a black hobbit there has to be a reason or something?

Honestly, I'm going to avoid the whole debate. After a while, it got tiresome with The Witcher. I will just watch the whole fandom burn over it.

 

[Abudefduf]

I'm too lazy to look up when this show will be set but during most of the 2nd Age, the Harad (which is pretty much the Middle-Earth equivalent of Africa) was a colony of Numenor.

Which means that it's highly likely that some Haradrim lived among the Numenoreans.

 

[Deck Rickard]

It’s always funny when you realize how much modern fantasy borrows from Tolkien. When you mentioned the Haradrim, my first thought was, “Diablo?”

 

[OutOfBoose]

Depends. They shouldnt be casting POC for any characters that dont come from Rhûn or have ancestors from Rhûn. Middle Earth is modeled on Anglo-Saxon Britain and is predominantly white just like the British isles were in the first millennium AD. So the cast should be either entirely or mostly white. And there definitely shouldnt be any dark skinned elves. There shouldnt be any Asian actors playing elves either unless they are going to cast Asian actors in all the elvish roles. Elves should be a much more homogeneous race/species than humans.

But this is Amazon and they'll want to act woke so I expect them to copy what's being done with Witcher and cast POC actors in roles even when it makes no good ****ing sense.

I'm just happy LOTR trilogy was made before all this. It looks like it should.

 

[Finarfiniel]

Do not be sorry, that's the most interesting post I've read in ages.

I love all the lore of LotR (fantasy in general) and when it came to the family history side of things in your post, I didn't know any of that stuff. I've never really understood Galadriel's limits and what she could potentially do compared to the other powerful Middle Earth characters (with or without the ring), so this has been a useful discussion for me.

Oh good, I'm glad I didn't inadvertently bore the pants off you. Here's a really brilliant, in depth character analysis of Galadriel if you're interested in reading more. Lady of Light, more like Lady of Might.

I'm using this as an example of strong female heroines existing within the Legendarium who are not fan fiction Mary Sues like Tauriel.

One of the saddest things about Amazon/WB not having the rights to The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is the fact that they both contain so many fantastic, strong and complex female characters that I'd love to see brought to life. Lúthien, Melian, Haleth, Idril, Andreth, Morwen, Aredhel just to name a few. I'm hoping with this show being set in the Second Age we may get to see a couple of the ruling queens of Númenór like Tar-Ancalimë or Tar-Telperiën.