Amazon's Rings of Power - General Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[THORin]

Oh good, I'm glad I didn't inadvertently bore the pants off you. Here's a really brilliant, in depth character analysis of Galadriel if you're interested in reading more. Lady of Light, more like Lady of Might.

One of the saddest things about Amazon/WB not having the rights to The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is the fact that they both contain so many fantastic, strong and complex female characters that I'd love to see brought to life. Lúthien, Melian, Haleth, Idril, Andreth, Morwen, Aredhel just to name a few. I'm hoping with this show being set in the Second Age we may get to see a couple of the ruling queens of Númenór like Tar-Ancalimë or Tar-Telperiën.

We could also get Fimbrethil the Entwife! How cool would that be? Also, Erendis from Numenor.

 

[Silvermoth]

Ha, that would be cool

 

[TheVileOne]

Oh good, I'm glad I didn't inadvertently bore the pants off you. Here's a really brilliant, in depth character analysis of Galadriel if you're interested in reading more. Lady of Light, more like Lady of Might.

One of the saddest things about Amazon/WB not having the rights to The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is the fact that they both contain so many fantastic, strong and complex female characters that I'd love to see brought to life. Lúthien, Melian, Haleth, Idril, Andreth, Morwen, Aredhel just to name a few. I'm hoping with this show being set in the Second Age we may get to see a couple of the ruling queens of Númenór like Tar-Ancalimë or Tar-Telperiën.

Well Luthien is mentioned in the original LOTR books, so technically they can make a version of her can't they?

But it's weird to me that they spend all this money to make a show that's not set during War of the Ring and they didn't try to license Silmarillion.

 

[Abudefduf]

Wait, they don't have the rights to The Silmarillion? I thought they did. What is this show gonna be based on then? The freaking appendices?

Lúthien, Melian, Haleth, Idril, Andreth, Morwen, Aredhel just to name a few. I'm hoping with this show being set in the Second Age we may get to see a couple of the ruling queens of Númenór like Tar-Ancalimë or Tar-Telperiën.

How dare you forget Queen Beruthiel. She's the coolest female character ever created by Tolkien by far, that crazy cat lady.

 

[Boom]

Wait, they don't have the rights to The Silmarillion? I thought they did. What is this show gonna be based on then? The freaking appendices?

How dare you forget Queen Beruthiel. She's the coolest female character ever created by Tolkien by far, that crazy cat lady.

It sounds like they're putting together a Second Age narrative using the appendices from Lord of the Rings and material from Unfinished Tales.

The Silmarillion mostly (if not entirely) deals with the First Age, if memory serves. It's been a while since I've read it.

 

[THORin]

It sounds like they're putting together a Second Age narrative using the appendices from Lord of the Rings and material from Unfinished Tales.

The Silmarillion mostly (if not entirely) deals with the First Age, if memory serves. It's been a while since I've read it.

Yeah, think this is all they have the rights to: though it seems they also have the rights to Karen Fonstad’s Atlas of Middle-earth. There was also speculation that they might have the Akallabeth, but that is as yet unconfirmed. They also have rights to the films, which could enable them to reuse certain props, sets, etc.

Well Luthien is mentioned in the original LOTR books, so technically they can make a version of her can't they?

But it's weird to me that they spend all this money to make a show that's not set during War of the Ring and they didn't try to license Silmarillion.

Lúthien is mentioned in LOTR, but her full story is only told in Silmarillion: and, if I recall correctly, then they are not able to use anything from the Silmarillion, but not are they allowed to contradict anything in the Silmarillion, which prevents them both from using the existing stories, or making up a new one, for Lúthien, or for any characters in the Silmarillion. At the moment, as far as we know, they only can use stuff from the Appendices of LOTR and Unfinished Tales.

Wait, they don't have the rights to The Silmarillion? I thought they did. What is this show gonna be based on then? The freaking appendices?

How dare you forget Queen Beruthiel. She's the coolest female character ever created by Tolkien by far, that crazy cat lady.

Queen Beruthiel is cool, but she lived in the Third Age. However, I’ve already proposed on TORN that they should make her a noblewoman of Numenor, an ally of Sauron. Because she’s cool, and I’d love to see her onscreen, and Sauron has always had a connection with evil cats.

 

[Boom]

Maybe someday they'll get their hands on The Silmarillion.

Vampires, werewolves, dragons, balrogs, Ungoliant, Morgoth, Glorfindel, Beren and Luthien. It has everything.

 

[THORin]

Maybe someday they'll get their hands on The Silmarillion.

Vampires, werewolves, dragons, balrogs, Ungoliant, Morgoth, Glorfindel, Beren and Luthien. It has everything.

Yeah, the thing with the Silmarillion is that Christopher Tolkien has the rights to that, not the Tolkien Estate. And Christopher has made it very clear he wishes for no movie: he stepped down from the Tolkien Estate when they made the deal with Amazon.

 

[Iceman]

Maybe someday they'll get their hands on The Silmarillion.

Vampires, werewolves, dragons, balrogs, Ungoliant, Morgoth, Glorfindel, Beren and Luthien. It has everything.

If the upcoming show is of a high enough standard, maybe it will convince the rightsholders to negotiate further.

 

[THORin]

If the upcoming show is of a high enough standard, maybe it will convince the rightsholders to negotiate further.

To convince Christopher Tolkien, it would have to be exceptional: he literally disowned his son because his son liked the Peter Jackson movies!

(They were reunited a few years ago, but still).

 

[Iceman]

To convince Christopher Tolkien, it would have to be exceptional: he literally disowned his son because his son liked the Peter Jackson movies!

(They were reunited a few years ago, but still).

I knew he was the big stumbling block but I didn’t realise he alone had the rights to the Silmarillion. I had imagined that he had mellowed over the years. I hate to say it but he won’t be around forever (already age 94).

 

[THORin]

I knew he was the big stumbling block but I didn’t realise he alone had the rights to the Silmarillion. I had imagined that he had mellowed over the years. I hate to say it but he won’t be around forever (already age 94).

I don’t know what happens to the rights after his death, but I imagine that someday in the future we will see a Silmarillion series: maybe even the near future. I mean, we don’t know yet, but it is possible that Amazon already has the rights to part of the Silmarillion (the Akallabeth) and that could be a first step toward getting the rights to the rest of it.

 

[Iceman]

I don’t know what happens to the rights after his death, but I imagine that someday in the future we will see a Silmarillion series: maybe even the near future. I mean, we don’t know yet, but it is possible that Amazon already has the rights to part of the Silmarillion (the Akallabeth) and that could be a first step toward getting the rights to the rest of it.

True. I’m not going to waste too much time thinking about it. Whatever the future possibilities are, the main thing is that they absolutely nail this series from the first episode, whatever it is about.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don’t know what happens to the rights after his death, but I imagine that someday in the future we will see a Silmarillion series: maybe even the near future. I mean, we don’t know yet, but it is possible that Amazon already has the rights to part of the Silmarillion (the Akallabeth) and that could be a first step toward getting the rights to the rest of it.

What's source they have rights to Akallabeth?

 

[THORin]

What's source they have rights to Akallabeth?

It only seems likely because of the Numenor setting that is confirmed by the latest map. No confirmation, but the stories of almost all the Numenorean kings come from Akallabeth.

 

[henzINNIT]

No other property could get me hype with a map. Looking forward to this.

 

[Consona]

So what materials are producers able to use to make the series about The Second Age? Can they use The Book of Lost Tales?

In there were those super awesome mentions of the Númenórean technology.

"Our ships go now without the wind, and many are made of metal that sheareth hidden rocks, and they sink not in calm or storm; but they are no longer fair to look upon. Our towers grow ever stronger and climb ever higher, but beauty they leave behind upon earth. We who have no foes are embattled with impregnable fortresses - and mostly on the West. Our arms are multiplied as if for an agelong war, and men are ceasing to give love or care to the making of other things for use or delight. But our shields are impenetrable, our swords cannot be withstood, our darts are like thunder and pass over leagues unerring."

Also which book talks about their naval voyages to the edge of the world and the construction of Orthanc? They were so scientifically and technologically advanced compared to the third age men.

I'd love to see those things even when Lost Tales aren't canon.

 

[THORin]

So what materials are producers able to use to make the series about The Second Age? Can they use The Book of Lost Tales?

In there were those super awesome mentions of the Númenórean technology.

"Our ships go now without the wind, and many are made of metal that sheareth hidden rocks, and they sink not in calm or storm; but they are no longer fair to look upon. Our towers grow ever stronger and climb ever higher, but beauty they leave behind upon earth. We who have no foes are embattled with impregnable fortresses - and mostly on the West. Our arms are multiplied as if for an agelong war, and men are ceasing to give love or care to the making of other things for use or delight. But our shields are impenetrable, our swords cannot be withstood, our darts are like thunder and pass over leagues unerring."

Also which book talks about their naval voyages to the edge of the world and the construction of Orthanc? They were so scientifically and technologically advanced compared to the third age men.

I'd love to see those things even when Lost Tales aren't canon.

They seem to have the rights to Unfinished Tales, which covers a lot of similar stuff: though it’s possible they also have the rights to Lost Tales - we don’t know the full situation with the rights yet.

 

[Iceman]

Wait, they don't have the rights to The Silmarillion? I thought they did. What is this show gonna be based on then? The freaking appendices?

A lot of good material they could use from there.

 

[Boom]

 

[TheVileOne]

It makes no sense to me we are getting a show set before the books when they don't even really have the rights to those stories and just the vague mentions in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

 

[Silvermoth]

It’s true that Scotland is very pretty. Edinburgh is one of my favourite cities on earth

 

[Filmfreak]

I'd prefer New Zealand but Scotland is really beautiful too.

 

[THORin]

This feels like a good omen to me, because my name is Leith, believe it or not: I was named after that very place in Scotland.

 

[THORin]

It makes no sense to me we are getting a show set before the books when they don't even really have the rights to those stories and just the vague mentions in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Not entirely accurate. They have, definitely, the rights to Unfinished Tales, and we know that because they’ve put stuff on their maps that only shows up in that book. They seem to have the rights to the Akallabeth, though that is still unconfirmed.