Amazon's Rings of Power - General Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[InCali]

The sons of Elrond, Glorfindel and Prince Imrahil are 3 things that I really missed from the films.

Yeah. I forgot about Imrahil.

 

[InCali]

The 6 sub-books could have worked well, especially if they included some things that were left out and went more in depth on others.

Yeah. I was just thinking about that. I do like the way that Jackson mixed books three and four and five and six. What I probably would have done, is really used six movies over a three-year span, space them out six months apart, and released the DVD about a month before the following movie. Not sure that would’ve worked, but it sounds pretty good right now to have 2 hour movies spaced that way.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah. I was just thinking about that. I do like the way that Jackson mixed books three and four and five and six. What I probably would have done, is really used six movies over a three-year span, space them out six months apart, and released the DVD about a month before the following movie. Not sure that would’ve worked, but it sounds pretty good right now to have 2 hour movies spaced that way.

I think that would have been amazing.

They hype throughout those 3 years would have been another level higher.

 

[OutOfBoose]

A pox on you all!!!!!

You can kill the singer, but not the sooooooooooooooooooooong!

 

[InCali]

You can kill the singer, but not the sooooooooooooooooooooong!

I can try.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I can try.

I always said you were an optimist. Know what that is, mate? It's about sizing up a situation that's bloody impossible and saying "yeah, all right - I'll have a go!"

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I can agree on wanting to see more things from the book just for the sake of it but I can't agree that it would make for better films. There are plenty of things in the book that doesn't actually add to the story at all and mainly just broadens the world in slow pace, and the possibility to do that is one of the clearest distinctions between the novel and film mediums (although Tolkien did get criticism on that as showing that he wasn't an experienced writer). Even as a reader/viewer it's good to be able to separate what we like from what's important.

Them making six films would never have happened since New Line already stretched itself far enough to risk bankruptcy, which is something fans should rather fall down on their knees in thanks for, rather than asking for more I think. Stretching the budget out significantly more, as well as stressing the production even more (with Jackson already working an insane amount of hours with no proper rest), also does not sound like a recipe for improvement but rather for disaster.

I appreciate the enthusiasm for the original work, and I certainly share it, but I think the wishful dreams about what the films could have been are in reality just cured by reading the book, as everything is already there.

 

[Iceman]

I can agree on wanting to see more things from the book just for the sake of it but I can't agree that it would make for better films. There are plenty of things in the book that doesn't actually add to the story at all and mainly just broadens the world in slow pace, and the possibility to do that is one of the clearest distinctions between the novel and film mediums (although Tolkien did get criticism on that as showing that he wasn't an experienced writer). Even as a reader/viewer it's good to be able to separate what we like from what's important.

Them making six films would never have happened since New Line already stretched itself far enough to risk bankruptcy, which is something fans should rather fall down on their knees in thanks for, rather than asking for more I think. Stretching the budget out significantly more, as well as stressing the production even more, also does not sound like a recipe for improvement.

I think some of the Fellowship stuff that was cut would have been genuinely hard to fit in and delayed the raising of the stakes too much even if they had unlimited budget. For the EEs or even Super EEs though it would have been awesome to have filmed some of these extra bits mentioned. I would have been more than happy to full-price triple-dip for that stuff.

 

[Nathaniell]

I can agree on wanting to see more things from the book just for the sake of it but I can't agree that it would make for better films. There are plenty of things in the book that doesn't actually add to the story at all and mainly just broadens the world in slow pace, and the possibility to do that is one of the clearest distinctions between the novel and film mediums (although Tolkien did get criticism on that as showing that he wasn't an experienced writer). Even as a reader/viewer it's good to be able to separate what we like from what's important.

Them making six films would never have happened since New Line already stretched itself far enough to risk bankruptcy, which is something fans should rather fall down on their knees in thanks for, rather than asking for more I think. Stretching the budget out significantly more, as well as stressing the production even more (with Jackson already working an insane amount of hours with no proper rest), also does not sound like a recipe for improvement but rather for disaster.

I appreciate the enthusiasm for the original work, and I certainly share it, but I think the wishful dreams about what the films could have been are in reality just cured by reading the book, as everything is already there.

I agree with this post too. Take what you can get, I suppose. All this talk makes me wanna go back and re-read the books since I havent done so in such a long time. Only thing I've done was listen to the Audio book of the Silmarillion.

 

[InCali]

I can agree on wanting to see more things from the book just for the sake of it but I can't agree that it would make for better films. There are plenty of things in the book that doesn't actually add to the story at all and mainly just broadens the world in slow pace, and the possibility to do that is one of the clearest distinctions between the novel and film mediums (although Tolkien did get criticism on that as showing that he wasn't an experienced writer). Even as a reader/viewer it's good to be able to separate what we like from what's important.

Them making six films would never have happened since New Line already stretched itself far enough to risk bankruptcy, which is something fans should rather fall down on their knees in thanks for, rather than asking for more I think. Stretching the budget out significantly more, as well as stressing the production even more (with Jackson already working an insane amount of hours with no proper rest), also does not sound like a recipe for improvement but rather for disaster.

I appreciate the enthusiasm for the original work, and I certainly share it, but I think the wishful dreams about what the films could have been are in reality just cured by reading the book, as everything is already there.

I realize that New Line had limited resources and this wasn't feasible, however, I've never agreed with the idea that the things that were cut don't add to the movie. Some of what Jackson did was flat out lame; not to say that a lot of what he did wasn't really good. The Glofindel/Arwen swap did nothing to advance the story (there was time for that) and was just a way to cram in Arwen. Neither did the stupid death of Saruman add anything to the story and in fact, it detracted from it. Introducing the Grey Company and not butchering Paths of the Dead would have been a simple fix that didn't need that much time (I think it was worse in the extended edition because it just added to the screw up). Aragorn's "almost" death was poorly handled and did nothing but waste time. There were much better ways, as in the book, to show that Eowyn was in love with him and her motivations without extending the movie. Frodo turning on Sam was yet another waste of time. The book did a much better job of their journey in The Stairs of Cirith Ungol. What Jackson messed with generally didn't come out well. When he followed the storyline, he generally succeeded. WRT skipping their journey from the Shire to The Prancing Pony, with the exception of being chased by the Nazgul, my feeling is that it detracted from the story. While it would have taken some time, it would also have allowed to breathe some life into the story with more background and the escape from the barrow wights in Fog on the Barrow-Downs would have been downright exciting. It would also have allowed for a better understanding of the sword that maimed the Lord of the Nazgul before he was slain rather than have Aragorn just give the hobbits a bunch of swords (give me a break).

Of course all of this is subjective and there's no right or wrong answer. I agree we were lucky to get what we got, but the extended editions could have been so, so much better.

 

[Nathaniell]

Well lets hope that Amazon steps up to the plate and gives us something that stays on the right path this time...

Meanwhile, im still working on my writing and I don't care if it lines up to the show or not. I just love to write to test out my writing abilities.

 

[InCali]

Well lets hope that Amazon steps up to the plate and gives us something that stays on the right path this time...

Meanwhile, im still working on my writing and I don't care if it lines up to the show or not. I just love to write to test out my writing abilities.

Like I said, I think they've got an easier job because the narrative is much less fleshed out. They are working with a broad outline they can fill in rather than a much more tightly written storyline. How they do it will be another thing. It'll be interesting to see the characters they create because most of them haven't been fleshed out in the books (Galadriel and Elrond being notable exceptions). They also have the funding available to do some really spectacular stuff....unless Jeff Bezos runs out of money.

Good luck with your writing.

 

[Nathaniell]

Like I said, I think they've got an easier job because the narrative is much less fleshed out. They are working with a broad outline they can fill in rather than a much more tightly written storyline. How they do it will be another thing. It'll be interesting to see the characters they create because most of them haven't been fleshed out in the books (Galadriel and Elrond being notable exceptions). They also have the funding available to do some really spectacular stuff....unless Jeff Bezos runs out of money.

Good luck with your writing.

Oh I agree. and Thank you. I've been following the timeline intensively since I started a re-do of the 2nd age story writing.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I realize that New Line had limited resources and this wasn't feasible, however, I've never agreed with the idea that the things that were cut don't add to the movie. Some of what Jackson did was flat out lame; not to say that a lot of what he did wasn't really good. The Glofindel/Arwen swap did nothing to advance the story (there was time for that) and was just a way to cram in Arwen. Neither did the stupid death of Saruman add anything to the story and in fact, it detracted from it. Introducing the Grey Company and not butchering Paths of the Dead would have been a simple fix that didn't need that much time (I think it was worse in the extended edition because it just added to the screw up). Aragorn's "almost" death was poorly handled and did nothing but waste time. There were much better ways, as in the book, to show that Eowyn was in love with him and her motivations without extending the movie. Frodo turning on Sam was yet another waste of time. The book did a much better job of their journey in The Stairs of Cirith Ungol. What Jackson messed with generally didn't come out well. When he followed the storyline, he generally succeeded. WRT skipping their journey from the Shire to The Prancing Pony, with the exception of being chased by the Nazgul, my feeling is that it detracted from the story. While it would have taken some time, it would also have allowed to breathe some life into the story with more background and the escape from the barrow wights in Fog on the Barrow-Downs would have been downright exciting. It would also have allowed for a better understanding of the sword that maimed the Lord of the Nazgul before he was slain rather than have Aragorn just give the hobbits a bunch of swords (give me a break).

Of course all of this is subjective and there's no right or wrong answer. I agree we were lucky to get what we got, but the extended editions could have been so, so much better.

I don't think the story gain much by adding more things since Jackson already added a lot of things that just were Tolkien world building but weren't directly necessary to tell the story.

I could talk a lot about specific cases but I don't think this is the place as it's about the show and it will take up a lot of time. I'll just say that I wouldn't dislike seeing more things myself but in most cases I don't think it makes a better film and it's more just frivolous fan service.

The films are certainly not perfect, but in my view they are way more titled towards that I can't believe it was actually done as well as it was, with as much deeper cuts as it had (especially EE), rather than a pierce of work that didn't get what it was adapting.

 

[InCali]

I don't think the story gain much by adding more things since Jackson already added a lot of things that just were Tolkien world building but weren't directly necessary to tell the story.

I could talk a lot about specific cases but I don't think this is the place as it's about the show and it will take up a lot of time. I'll just say that I wouldn't dislike seeing more things myself but in most cases I don't think it makes a better film and it's more just frivolous fan service.

The films are certainly not perfect, but in my view they are way more titled towards that I can't believe it was actually done as well as it was, with as much deeper cuts as it had (especially EE), rather than a pierce of work that didn't get what it was adapting.

Cool. I think the overall product was good, but Jackson made some major and unnecessary mistakes. I also don't think a more accurate representation is frivolous.

Agree that we should focus on the series.

 

[TheVileOne]

Considering how much people complained about the theatrical cut of Lord of the Rings, they would not have gotten away with Scouring of the Shire. Makes me sad, but it would've been too much for most audiences. What they included in the theatrical cut was pretty indulgent enough for audiences, even though it was still successful.

 

[Drizzle]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but I never liked the Scouring of the Shire and I'm glad it wasn't included in the film. The nod we get to it in Galadriel's mirror in FOTR was enough for me.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but I never liked the Scouring of the Shire and I'm glad it wasn't included in the film. The nod we get to it in Galadriel's mirror in FOTR was enough for me.

I get the point of it in the books but introducing that conflict at the end of the third film would have been too much.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but I never liked the Scouring of the Shire and I'm glad it wasn't included in the film. The nod we get to it in Galadriel's mirror in FOTR was enough for me.

Same here. I didn’t care for the Scouring in the book and I was glad they left it out of the movie. I think I facepalmed while reading it because they kept calling Saruman “Sharky.”

 

[TheVileOne]

The scouring of the Shire I think works perfectly in the book because it's a book. With a movie, people want a more linear, compact narrative. They want a beginning, a middle, and an end. The Shire is like another action-packed climax when all the main action has already taken place and been resolved.

Also, I think what's good about it is that it shows how far the Hobbits have come and what they've learned. Their home is ransacked, but they also fight for their home and save it. They are able to rally their friends to fight back. And they are able to repair some of the damage caused by Saruman.

 

[Nathaniell]

One thing I did observe after Celebrimbor made the 3 rings of power alone (without Sauron's hand in touching them), he gave three elven kings the rings before handing them off to Galadriel (who advised him to give the other two to Gil-Galad)...do u think we'll see those elves who bore the rings first and what their fate may entail during the destruction of Eregion?

 

[InCali]

One thing I did observe after Celebrimbor made the 3 rings of power alone (without Sauron's hand in touching them), he gave three elven kings the rings before handing them off to Galadriel (who advised him to give the other two to Gil-Galad)...do u think we'll see those elves who bore the rings first and what their fate may entail during the destruction of Eregion?

In "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" section of the Silmarillion, it simply says that they were given to the wise. It states that Vilya and Narya were given to Gil-Galad who gave them to Elrond and Cirdan; the Lords of Imladris and Mithlond and that Nenya was given to Galadriel. Where is the cite about the 3 Elven Kings? I don't recall that.

Oh, also for clarification, the Dwarves said that Celebrimbor himself gave the greatest of the 7 rings to Durin III, but it's also stated that Celebrimbor gave up all 7 to Sauron. It may be that the Dwarves didn't want to acknowledge that he was given the ring by Sauron.

 

[InCali]

One thing I did observe after Celebrimbor made the 3 rings of power alone (without Sauron's hand in touching them), he gave three elven kings the rings before handing them off to Galadriel (who advised him to give the other two to Gil-Galad)...do u think we'll see those elves who bore the rings first and what their fate may entail during the destruction of Eregion?

Ahhhhh.....it occurs to me that you are talking about Tolkien's epigraph "Three rings for the Elven-Kings under the sky". I don't take that to mean they were given to 3 Elven-Kings. I think it's pretty clearly stated who actually got them. I take that to mean the rings were meant for Elves, Dwarves, and Men.

 

[Nathaniell]

The way I see it is that 3 elves who were kings were given the rings first but when they learned who Sauron was and were aware of the One ring, they gave the rings back to Celebrimbor who went to see Galadriel for advice. Therefore, he gave Nenya to her and she said that the other two should be given to Gil-Galad for safekeeping. Im just going by the timeline of events on the Tokien gateway cause I find they are more detailed.

 

[InCali]

The way I see it is that 3 elves who were kings were given the rings first but when they learned who Sauron was and were aware of the One ring, they gave the rings back to Celebrimbor who went to see Galadriel for advice. Therefore, he gave Nenya to her and she said that the other two should be given to Gil-Galad for safekeeping. Im just going by the timeline of events on the Tokien gateway cause I find they are more detailed.

Hmmmmm.......I've never read anything about that happening. It doesn't make sense to me that Celebrimbor would give the elven rings to any other elves without first giving them to Gil-Galad and Galadriel as they were easily the greatest of the Elves of Middle-Earth. Gil-Galad was High King of the Noldor and the Elves of the West after the death of Turgon. I don't see Celebrimbor giving away three of the greatest of his work unless it was necessary; as it became when Sauron started the war about 90 years after their creation.

So, my take is that Celebrimbor kept his greatest works until he became afraid that Sauron would take them by force. If he did give them up, he would have given them to the greatest of the elves (which he ended up doing) and not to, say, the King of Greenwood the Great, Oropher (grandfather of Legolas) who was killed in the War of the Last Alliance. And if he did give them to Gil-Galad and Galadriel, they wouldn't have had to give them back as they were the ones who kept them after the invasion of Eregion.

If this is what you are writing, you should figure out why they weren't given to Gil-Galad and Galadriel to begin with.