The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[random_havoc]

I think that this power didn't come to Luke out of thin air. He must have read those sacred texts and I think the affect of using such a power over great distances must have been known to him. Therefor Luke knew what the possible even likely consequences of what he did would be to himself.

See, any decent movie wouldn't have left you having to make that stuff up out of thin air as an excuse to defend the movie. A good movie in fact would have explained that and the many other holes in the film, amongst many other things

 

[random_havoc]

To be fair all we know is he said it was "beautifully made". Doesn't necessarily mean he approved of all the choices, but either way I think he accepts that it's not his story anymore.

I could definitely see Lucas approving of the striking visuals on Crait and the samurai-vibe of that final confrontation. And I could see him liking the Canto Bight stuff, which is admittedly a bit prequel-y haha.

Yeah there has to have been some contractual requirement about him not bashing the new movies. You think Hamill hates what they did with Luke but Lucas is ok with it?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yeah there has to have been some contractual requirement about him not bashing the new movies. You think Hamill hates what they did with Luke but Lucas is ok with it?

Didn't stop him when Episode VII came out.

 

[Mjölnir]

So Luke would never be tempted by the dark side?

Knowing the the force basically has a mind of it's own and completely sabotaged Luke's dream and ended it cyclical tragedy he would do the hermit, exile thing like Yoda and Obi Wan?

Just because something subverted your expectations doesn't mean it betrays the character.

You think all religious people who feel betrayed by God are as idealistic as they were as a young believer?

You think all war veterans are enthusiastic about a 30 year conflict?

Luke makes reasonable decisions based on how the story progresses.

He is not a bad person. Just less naive and idealist and more pragmatic and grounded.

Luke has been tempted by the dark side. In the worst situation possible - being influenced by Darth Sidious while fighting Darth Vader. That was his big heroic feat, to finally shrug off that influence. Also there's nothing in the film that suggests that it was the dark side that influenced him to want to murder his nephew (well, not the dark side in Luke).

Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't go away so they could whimper and die. They both went away with a long term plan while avoiding the Jedi purge. Obi-Wan was on Tatooine because he was looking after Luke, whom they considered to be the big hope, and as soon as someone told him that he was needed again he immediately sprung back into action.

I didn't have many expectations for what TLJ would be so that's not the issue. I do however know the Luke Skywalker from the OT very well and I know how good character development builds on what came before rather than just replacing it. It's amazing how many times I've had to repeat things like this and people still come with the same repetitive accusations of "you dislike it because you had made up your mind what the story was". Not a very fun or motivating environment to discuss in.

 

[BatLobster]

See, any decent movie wouldn't have left you having to make that stuff up out of thin air as an excuse to defend the movie. A good movie in fact would have explained that and the many other holes in the film, amongst many other things

The power was clearly foreshadowed with Rey and Kylo's interactions. Kylo even warns Rey she'd die if she tries to do it. Pretty clear setup/payoff there.

It's an evolution of The Force, but these movies always did that. Force lifting objects wasn't a thing until Empore. Force lighting wasn't a thing until Jedi. Force speed wasn't a thing until TPM. Etc.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Frank Miller's TDKR and Kingdom Come both feature different versions of Bruce Wayne but both are valid takes.

You have consider the circumstances the character was forced to adapt to.

Luke expected the force to accept his dream.

The force not only ran over his dream, it rubbed his face in it in the worst way possible.

Let's really look at this.

Luke has been helping his friends fight for over a decade. The guy has been fighting and saving his friends over and over and over.

Han Solo bail but not Luke. Luke envisions a school that becomes a jedi order that end the stalemate war and bring peace and prosperity.

The force doesn't share this dream to say the least.

The force basically says, "Ben is becoming the next Sith Lord after your training, he is worse than your father.".

The force shows look the genocide, tyranny and suffering that Ben will cause every night despite Luke desperately trying to council him. The visions persist.

Luke becomes tormented and the darkside gives him an out. Luke being Luke resist.

The force then punishes Luke in the worst way possible. Why? Oh just to keep balance, nothing he can do.

Do you guys understand that at this point Luke is not at the same place he was after Return of the Jedi. He's not the same kid.

Just like TDKR and Kingdom Come have a different string of events that result in different outcomes, this Luke had a different outcome.

It's still Luke but he has a damn good reason to stop playing tug a war with the force.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah there has to have been some contractual requirement about him not bashing the new movies. You think Hamill hates what they did with Luke but Lucas is ok with it?

Lucas called Disney "white slavers" around the time of TFA and basically hinted not so subtly that he thought it was too much of a retread and not imaginative enough.

Who's to say Lucas and Hamill would be on the same page anyway? Hamill wanted Luke to be much further down the road to the dark side in ROTJ. I just posted a link showing that the idea for Luke to be in hiding and disillusioned with the Jedi came straight from Lucas.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

To be fair all we know is he said it was "beautifully made". Doesn't necessarily mean he approved of all the choices, but either way I think he accepts that it's not his story anymore.

I could definitely see Lucas approving of the striking visuals on Crait and the samurai-vibe of that final confrontation. And I could see him liking the Canto Bight stuff, which is admittedly a bit prequel-y haha.

Well it's pure speculation what Lucas liked the most at this point.

But it's telling that he prefers the less safe sequel trilogy movie more.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yeah there has to have been some contractual requirement about him not bashing the new movies. You think Hamill hates what they did with Luke but Lucas is ok with it?

Wtf?

They're totally different people.

You think they have a hive mind because they worked on the same movies?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Luke has been tempted by the dark side. In the worst situation possible - being influenced by Darth Sidious while fighting Darth Vader. That was his big heroic feat, to finally shrug off that influence. Also there's nothing in the film that suggests that it was the dark side that influenced him to want to murder his nephew (well, not the dark side in Luke).

Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't go away so they could whimper and die. They both went away with a long term plan while avoiding the Jedi purge. Obi-Wan was on Tatooine because he was looking after Luke, whom they considered to be the big hope, and as soon as someone told him that he was needed again he immediately sprung back into action.

I didn't have many expectations for what TLJ would be so that's not the issue. I do however know the Luke Skywalker from the OT very well and I know how good character development builds on what came before rather than just replacing it. It's amazing how many times I've had to repeat things like this and people still come with the same repetitive accusations of "you dislike it because you had made up your mind what the story was". Not a very fun or motivating environment to discuss in.

Wasn't it the dark side that pushed Anakin to slaughter tusken children which was only a step towards going all the way. So Luke's temptation to slaughter a child could easily be part of the same cycle...Easily.

Obi Wan was waiting decades for his brief moment. But he was definitely in exile avoiding conflict probably longer than Luke. Yoda pretty much never planned on fighting again and accepted being an exile fully. They didn't cut themselves off from the force but they weren't personally betrayed by the force in the same way. Luke got cut way deeper from his adoptive parents being burned alive on forward to seeing the tragic path of his father up close to endless fighting with the Empire to his jedi order dream blowing up in his naive face and failing his sister and best friend. All so the force could have balance.

My argument goes beyond "you don't like change". I'm saying you guys aren't taking the character's journey into account.

TDKR Batman is just as true to the source as the Kingdom Come Batman once you acknowledge their unique paths and circumstances.

 

[random_havoc]

Wtf?

They're totally different people.

You think they have a hive mind because they worked on the same movies?

yeah that's what I'm saying. You nailed it.

No, I'm saying that if Hamill hates that Luke was turned into a loser for the new movies then it's a very safe bet that Lucas, whose life work was Star Wars and Luke was the big hero, probably hates it too. Not to mention, Lucas saying next to nothing about TLJ is probably a good indication he's trying to be polite, because we heard what came out when he talked about the last movie.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

yeah that's what I'm saying. You nailed it.

No, I'm saying that if Hamill hates that Luke was turned into a loser for the new movies then it's a very safe bet that Lucas, whose life work was Star Wars and Luke was the big hero, probably hates it too. Not to mention, Lucas saying next to nothing about TLJ is probably a good indication he's trying to be polite, because we heard what came out when he talked about the last movie.

No it's not a very safe bet.

Lmao.

One created Star Wars, the force and jedi. The other reads a script.

Actors, directors, writers, etc all have unique opinions about what the characters would or should do.

There's no right answer or single answer.

 

[Sithborg]

Well, Lucas' ego tends to get in the way at times.

 

[Spider-Fan]

yeah that's what I'm saying. You nailed it.

No, I'm saying that if Hamill hates that Luke was turned into a loser for the new movies then it's a very safe bet that Lucas, whose life work was Star Wars and Luke was the big hero, probably hates it too. Not to mention, Lucas saying next to nothing about TLJ is probably a good indication he's trying to be polite, because we heard what came out when he talked about the last movie.

Lucas frequently disagreed with the cast. See his reaction to Han's "I know" line.

 

[Clark-Kent]

Seeing the recent interview, yes it's pretty clear Mark Hamill was not pleased at the direction this movie took. I think Lucas should have had some serious input, even if not directing the new movies.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Well, Lucas' ego tends to get in the way at times.

Well if the creator can be "wrong" then so can the actors...

 

[danoyse]

Lucas frequently disagreed with the cast. See his reaction to Han's "I know" line.

Or Harrison wanting Han Solo to die in ROTJ. He's been saying that for decades.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Who understands Batman better Frank Miller, Alex Ross, or Nolan?

The answer might be different depending on who you ask and when.

Most recently it's not Frank Miller but during the 80's he was the universally respected authority.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Or Harrison wanting Han Solo to die in ROTJ. He's been saying that for decades.

Or Princess Leia wearing a metal bikini.

Carrie Fisher regretted that call to the day she died but most fanboys and Lucas think it's iconic and didn't betray the character.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Or Princess Leia wearing a metal bikini.

Carrie Fisher regretted that call to the day she died but most fanboys and Lucas think it's iconic and didn't betray the character.

Of course fans liked it

 

[Sithborg]

And I am remembering the outrage when Kennedy pretty much put a stop on the focus of that outfit.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Of course fans liked it

It's about the integrity of the character!

Turning a regal, female resistence leader into a half naked sex slave is okay cause...

...Disney didn't do it!

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's about the integrity of the character!

Turning a regal, female resistence leader into a half naked sex slave is okay cause...

...Disney didn't do it!

 

[FunkMiller]

Who understands Batman better Frank Miller, Alex Ross, or Nolan?

The answer might be different depending on who you ask and when.

Most recently it's not Frank Miller but during the 80's he was the universally respected authority.

Ooh! Ooh! I know this!

The answer’s Grant Morrison.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Who understands Batman better Frank Miller, Alex Ross, or Nolan?

The answer might be different depending on who you ask and when.

Most recently it's not Frank Miller but during the 80's he was the universally respected authority.

None of 'em! Denny O'Neill is the answer

Not sure how professional it is for Hamill to kinda "bash" the direction of the character in these movies is, but boy you wouldn't know that he hated the stuff by simply watching the movie. He sells the hell out of this new Luke in TLJ.