The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[Brother Jack]

I agree, which makes it weird for me, because why does this realisation come so late for Luke? Why didnt he learn from those early failures, and incorporate those teachings into the new Jedi Order he was creating?

I'm not sure when he would've gotten the whole story about the fall of the Jedi, because it's not something that's detailed to him in the OT. It could have been in the Jedi texts he read on the island, or from artifacts he discovered in his exploration post-ROTJ.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah. I mean we saw how the hubris of the Jedi brought their downfall in the PT. I do hope that in Ep 9, Luke actually passes on these teachings to Rey, the lessons from these mistakes that the Jedi have made.

Part of Rey's arc is learning from her own mistakes. She has the example Luke gave her but she also got this information and perspective of the Jedi's shortcomings contemporaneous with her own mistake of thinking she could simply talk Kylo out of being what he had chosen to be and return him to being Ben Solo. I have to think that will add a resonance to the idea Luke was trying to impart to her about the Force and the Jedi.

 

[Herolee10]

I don't think a lot of people had any issues with the idea of Luke dying by the end of this trilogy but I've seen some express that they didn't feel like it was the right time to kill him in this film.

Does anyone else agree and believe that his death should have been saved for the finale of this trilogy or do you think that this was the perfect place to kill him?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I don't think a lot of people had any issues with the idea of Luke dying by the end of this trilogy but I've seen some express that they didn't feel like it was the right time to kill him in this film.

Does anyone else agree and believe that his death should have been saved for the finale of this trilogy or do you think that this was the perfect place to kill him?

Personally I wanted to see him survive until Episode 9. The projection I liked until I saw Luke die from it, which just annoyed me.

And no, I didn’t him to take down the entire FO army on his own, but if he was going to die, I wanted it to be in an epic last stand.

 

[FunkMiller]

And no, I didn’t him to take down the entire FO army on his own, but if he was going to die, I wanted it to be in an epic last stand.

He does have a last stand, it's just followed by a rug pull moment.

 

[FunkMiller]

Watching Fatman On Batman.

Explanation for why Luke doesn't go to Crait:

For an X-wing to make the jump to light speed, it requires an astro-mech droid to make the calculations. Luke doesn't have one, so he can't go there.

...though how he got there in the first place is still an issue.

 

[Orba]

I was thinking about Hamill saying that Jedi don't give up, the problem with that is that Jedi are not perfect, the PT and the Clone Wars made clear that the Jedi were not all knowing, all wise, one man armies. They made mistakes, they died, some even turned to the Dark Side. To say that the Jedi would never do something is to set them to a standard that ultimately they will never be able to live up to. All you are setting yourself up for is a big fall when you do realise that you are human after all. If you look at Luke it seems he tried to be the Legend that Hamill (and many fans saw him as) and wasn't able to cope when he realised he couldn't live up to that impossible standard.

When he went to Ben's room and looked into his mind he saw death and darkness and had a split second instinctual reaction that he immediately suppressed. We don't know exactly what he saw but we do know that in the time that it took for Luke to regain consciousness Ben had gone to the other students, convinced some to turn to the Darkside, killed the others, set fire to the temple, and left. That is not a spur of the moment action, that is months in the making. The seeds had been planted long before and the roots grown deep. Luke very likely saw that Ben had been trying to turn the other students to Snoke. (That or Luke was just a really bad teacher.) Yet for Luke it was the shame of reacting instinctually that he could not let go of, he had a human reaction to something shocking. To him that was not how one of the Legendary Jedi should react. Its easy to see that leading to delusionment with the whole system.

When you look at how other characters treat Luke you see that they too are looking for the Legend rather than the human. In TFA the Resistance want the map because they seem to think that once they find Luke everything will be ok then. What do they actually think one person can do against the First Order? When Rey finds Luke she expects a legend and instead finds a human who fishes for his food and milks see animals for drink.

It is only at the end when Luke lets go of his human insecurities that he at last becomes the ideal. The Luke at the end is a creature straight out of legend, he is unbeatable, untouchable, he faces down armies, he saves the good guys against impossible odds, he brings back the hope that had been lost.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

He does have a last stand, it's just followed by a rug pull moment.

And the rug pull moment ruined it for me.

 

[FunkMiller]

And the rug pull moment ruined it for me.

Okay, that's fair enough. I really liked it because it was cleverer than just a straight forward last stand, and showed Luke's brain at work as well as his brawn, but I get that for others it was a let down.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Okay, that's fair enough. I really liked it because it was cleverer than just a straight forward last stand, and showed Luke's brain at work as well as his brawn, but I get that for others it was a let down.

After waiting 30 years to see this character on screen again, especially after not getting to see much of him in TFA, I just wanted a bit more. I don’t think what was done was bad, but it was not quite for me.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Personally I wanted to see him survive until Episode 9. The projection I liked until I saw Luke die from it, which just annoyed me.

And no, I didn’t him to take down the entire FO army on his own, but if he was going to die, I wanted it to be in an epic last stand.

Same

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Same

 

[Mjölnir]

Wasn't it the dark side that pushed Anakin to slaughter tusken children which was only a step towards going all the way. So Luke's temptation to slaughter a child could easily be part of the same cycle...Easily.

Obi Wan was waiting decades for his brief moment. But he was definitely in exile avoiding conflict probably longer than Luke. Yoda pretty much never planned on fighting again and accepted being an exile fully. They didn't cut themselves off from the force but they weren't personally betrayed by the force in the same way. Luke got cut way deeper from his adoptive parents being burned alive on forward to seeing the tragic path of his father up close to endless fighting with the Empire to his jedi order dream blowing up in his naive face and failing his sister and best friend. All so the force could have balance.

My argument goes beyond "you don't like change". I'm saying you guys aren't taking the character's journey into account.

TDKR Batman is just as true to the source as the Kingdom Come Batman once you acknowledge their unique paths and circumstances.

The dark side that was just like what Luke's temptation in the throne room was, instigated by Darth Sidious (built up through the visions). And even Anakin didn't have his first impulse be to kill them, even though they had kidnapped his mother. It was first when he saw that she was tortured to death that he snapped. The point where the bad was 100% irreversible.

Again, they both were away waiting for the last hope that they had set up. They didn't give up, they just saw it that Luke was the hope that remained after their failure. Luke also wasn't betrayed by the Force. Snoke influenced Ben to fall, it wasn't the Force itself that just decided to make him evil.

I certainly am taking the character's journey into account. I'm just not agreeing that there's any worse things happening after RotJ than what happened during the trilogy. Luke's biggest test was in the OT, that's blatantly obvious to me. And even if they had manage to write something that would be a bigger test and more emotional for him, that's pretty weak to leave off screen and then have a lesser journey when he actually does appear in a film again.

 

[Iceman]

I also thought the projection was a good thing but not if it was going to kill him.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The dark side that was just like what Luke's temptation in the throne room was, instigated by Darth Sidious (built up through the visions). And even Anakin didn't have his first impulse be to kill them, even though they had kidnapped his mother. It was first when he saw that she was tortured to death that he snapped. The point where the bad was 100% irreversible.

Again, they both were away waiting for the last hope that they had set up. They didn't give up, they just saw it that Luke was the hope that remained after their failure. Luke also wasn't betrayed by the Force. Snoke influenced Ben to fall, it wasn't the Force itself that just decided to make him evil.

I certainly am taking the character's journey into account. I'm just not agreeing that there's any worse things happening after RotJ than what happened during the trilogy. Luke's biggest test was in the OT, that's blatantly obvious to me. And even if they had manage to write something that would be a bigger test and more emotional for him, that's pretty weak to leave off screen and then have a lesser journey when he actually does appear in a film again.

Saying things went south because of Snoke is looking at the small picture imo.

Let's say Luke sent an assassin to kill Snoke. The assassin kills Snoke. Luke continues his jedi acadamy that it's such a huge success they spring up across the galaxy. Without Snoke or Kylo the First Order falls and the new Jedi Order are the benevolent leaders of the galaxy for thousands of years of peace and prosperity.

1) Does this sound like balance between light and dark?

2) If not, would the force be powerless to create balance?

 

[Mjölnir]

Saying things went south because of Snoke is looking at the small picture imo.

Let's say Luke sent an assassin to kill Snoke. The assassin kills Snoke. Luke continues his jedi acadamy that it's such a huge success they spring up across the galaxy. Without Snoke or Kylo the First Order falls and the new Jedi Order are the benevolent leaders of the galaxy for thousands of years of peace and prosperity.

1) Does this sound like balance between light and dark?

2) If not, would the force be powerless to create balance?

The Force has pretty much never been balanced between light and dark as far as we've been able to see so the whole thing with Anakin bringing balance is a tricky matter to judge what it means. One side always seems stronger than the other.

The Jedi Order stood for over 25000 years and they stood unopposed by the darkness for a good deal of that time, including about a 1000 years before Sidious brought them down. Where was balance during that time?

There was certainly no balance during the reign of the Galactic Empire.

After Anakin died there wasn't complete balance either. The Sith were seemingly extinct and the Jedi was still around through Luke. All this isn't even mentioning the other Force traditions that have been around.

It's all too arbitrarily written to draw any clear logical lines. Why would the very Force itself try to bring balance through making the dark side stronger than the light again, converting or killing all of Luke's apprentices, when they let the Jedi Order with 10 000 members stand unopposed in the Force for 1000 years?

 

[sueb1863]

I figure we'll be seeing Luke in IX, or has Hamill said something to the contrary?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The Force has pretty much never been balanced between light and dark as far as we've been able to see so the whole thing with Anakin bringing balance is a tricky matter to judge what it means. One side always seems stronger than the other.

The Jedi Order stood for over 25000 years and they stood unopposed by the darkness for a good deal of that time, including about a 1000 years before Sidious brought them down. Where was balance during that time?

There was certainly no balance during the reign of the Galactic Empire.

After Anakin died there wasn't complete balance either. The Sith were seemingly extinct and the Jedi was still around through Luke. All this isn't even mentioning the other Force traditions that have been around.

It's all too arbitrarily written to draw any clear logical lines. Why would the very Force itself try to bring balance through making the dark side stronger than the light again, converting or killing all of Luke's apprentices, when they let the Jedi Order with 10 000 members stand unopposed in the Force for 1000 years?

Even if the force acts more like a pendulum rather than a scale it's still not a good idea to gamble your hopes and dreams by pushing too hard in a single direction.

A counter-balance will be asserted eventually and when it does it will cut deep.

 

[BigSams50]

I figure we'll be seeing Luke in IX, or has Hamill said something to the contrary?

Im sure he will be back as a force ghost, but that just isnt enough for me. I was hoping he would have a real role as Reys teacher. PErsonally i would have loved if they had done this a 4 part instead of trilogy. Have Luke live VIII, let Kylo best him in IX, and then let Rey overcome Kylo in X. Then you end the Skywalker saga of star wars films, and Rian could start his Trilogy Skywalker free.

 

[Jack Ups]

As people have mentioned not having Luke in an action scene even as an older person (didnt need backflips everywhere etc) was hugely disappointing, what a waste and something everyone was hoping to see. That was the only thing that let the film down for me, even if 100 troopers came into the base for Luke to go badass on before walking out to Kylo would have bumped the film up hugely.

 

[Flemm]

A counter-balance will be asserted eventually and when it does it will cut deep.

I think it's an unworkable idea moving forward.

The director probably wasn't thinking in those terms, but more about the awkward transition between RotJ and TFA, which has the First Order immediately rise up to replace the Empire.

But this concept would mean that the rebellion shouldn't try to defeat the First Order because another evil empire would just immediately take its place.

By trying to be good, you are just provoking the universe to create evil as a counter-balance.

While I only have a passing knowledge of the Taoist philosophies that inspired the light/dark stuff originally, I'm pretty sure that's not how those philosophies view the world. The concepts are much more subtle than that.

It's not that any good you accomplish will face a backlash from the universe.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

As people have mentioned not having Luke in an action scene even as an older person (didnt need backflips everywhere etc) was hugely disappointing, what a waste and something everyone was hoping to see. That was the only thing that let the film down for me, even if 100 troopers came into the base for Luke to go badass on before walking out to Kylo would have bumped the film up hugely.

That totally detracts from the message about ideals vs raw power.

The resistance will never be more powerful than the First Order when it comes to raw power. They need to win with inspiration and hope.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Anybody hoping Hamill gets more live action offers on the strength of this performance? Seriously, he was incredible. He needs more roles.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Depends on how he feels going forward I suppose. He's never needed to work post the OT, so whatever he does isn't for his career. At this point it's, "Oh... That sounds like something fun to be a part of." I won't doubt that some directors and casting agents now are thinking of him for some parts that he's a good fit for.

 

[godisawesome]

The podcast in my signature has me an day buddy discussing that. At his age and with the stable career he does have in voice acting, he can pretty much select what films he wants to be in instead of needing the work, but it does feel like type-casting may have deprived us of a decade or two of serious live action performances.