Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Shot Down Over Ukraine

[Thundercrack85]

Well, I'm sure the Dutch will channel their frustration into a very generous trade treaty with Ukraine.

 

[PacificBoy]

Perhaps......not sure to be honest. I just wish I saw more Dutch anger...visible anger. Heck! I wish I saw more anger from Malaysia.

There are critics in Malaysia who feel Najib Razak should have reacted with more anger, but the majority are like the Dutch in that they are focused on bringing their dead home. The Malaysians are also in a weird place grieving wise. They're still recovering from MH370 and that saga hasn't had any closure yet.

 

[terry78]

I think we're just so used to vengeance being our first emotion this is weird to us and counterproductive.

 

[Feenix]

I think for other people to critisize the Dutch's "lack" of anger is just stupid. It's their country, their citizens, their family. They are allowed to be as angry or as calm as they want. They're approaching this matter in the way they think is best to avoid further conflict. I applaud them for that.

 

[terry78]

True enough, though on the flip side that's probably what those a-holes are counting on.

 

[charl_huntress]

Freedom isn't free. The cost is usually blood, sweat, and tears. Emphasis on the blood.

I don't think a military response from the Dutch in full force is warranted, but no action is passive in my opinion. It makes the country look weak, which is likely why the rebels pussyfooted with the bodies as long as they have.

Some may think a hawks viewpoint is stupid, but no reaction is just as stupid. Grace and class don't translate well in intl politics.

 

[Feenix]

It may be the American way to send troops in when something doesn't go their way, but that's not how the rest of the world acts (nor should it). The Dutch are doing what they think is best. It may not be what you think is best, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is "wrong." Anger and violence don't translate well in international politics either.

As Paladin said, the country is more concerned with grieving right now. If they decide to get angry and stage protests and send in their troops, that's up to them (and no one would blame them). If they decide not to, that's also up to them. We don't live there, we don't know what it's like. We have no right to critisize.

 

[charl_huntress]

I'm not criticizing. Why should I? It's just my opinion, and if the Dutch aren't mad then neither am I.

There are critics in Malaysia who feel Najib Razak should have reacted with more anger, but the majority are like the Dutch in that they are focused on bringing their dead home. The Malaysians are also in a weird place grieving wise. They're still recovering from MH370 and that saga hasn't had any closure yet.

You would think they would react more strongly considering the fiasco involving the search for the missing plane, but I guess not.

 

[Feenix]

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news...ning+Putin+daughter+lives/10058630/story.html

Putin's daughter lives in the Netherlands.

Awkward.

 

[PacificBoy]

You would think they would react more strongly considering the fiasco involving the search for the missing plane, but I guess not.

I think they really didn't know how to react at the start; how does a country react to this unprecedented turn of events? MH370 is a chapter yet to be closed and now this. It's a nation in shock rather than in grieving.

Najib Razak's own step-grandmother was on MH17, so he showed plenty of restraint and chose not to point fingers. That quiet diplomacy probably helped because he was apparently the first national leader not called Putin to make personal contact with Alexander Borodai and help begin the process of bringing the bodies home.

 

[Kelly]

I think they really didn't know how to react at the start; how does a country react to this unprecedented turn of events? MH370 is a chapter yet to be closed and now this. It's a nation in shock rather than in grieving.

Najib Razak's own step-grandmother was on MH17, so he showed plenty of restraint and chose not to point fingers. That quiet diplomacy probably helped because he was apparently the first national leader not called Putin to make personal contact with Alexander Borodai and help begin the process of bringing the bodies home.

I totally agree...

 

[Burgundy LaRue]

I'm not criticizing. Why should I? It's just my opinion, and if the Dutch aren't mad then neither am I.

You would think they would react more strongly considering the fiasco involving the search for the missing plane, but I guess not.

It's not that simple. First and foremost, the Dutch are focused on bringing their country-people home. That's the most important thing.

And while I think they're within their rights to go HAM on Russia, we all know it doesn't work like that. Do the Dutch have the resources for a full-on attack against Russia? And what happens if Putin gets cute and decides to blast the Netherlands into space, citing that he had to defend his country? It's probably not likely, but who really knows with him?

It's not a question of whether they're mad. They're still working through their emotions, and may not have reached the anger stage yet. Whatever they do, it's their choice.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news...ning+Putin+daughter+lives/10058630/story.html

Putin's daughter lives in the Netherlands.

Awkward.

Yeah totally forgot to mention this.She and her boyfriend lives in a modest appartment in a small town not far from where i live.

Last i heard, Ukranians living here has called to stage a peacefull demonstration in that apartment area.But it's been more than a week now and nothing has happened as of yet.

And with the nation focus on the remains being brought home finally, i don't think that will happen anytime soon.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

It's not that simple. First and foremost, the Dutch are focused on bringing their country-people home. That's the most important thing.

And while I think they're within their rights to go HAM on Russia, we all know it doesn't work like that. Do the Dutch have the resources for a full-on attack against Russia? And what happens if Putin gets cute and decides to blast the Netherlands into space, citing that he had to defend his country? It's probably not likely, but who really knows with him?

It's not a question of whether they're mad. They're still working through their emotions, and may not have reached the anger stage yet. Whatever they do, it's their choice.

Pretty much this i think.Everybody still pretty much in the shock/grieving stage.

And no, i don't think that we have the resources to go after Putin in a millitary operation...and something to think about; The Netherland is pretty much an under water country if it's not for the Dams.It wouldn't take much t sink the whole country.

 

[charl_huntress]

I think they really didn't know how to react at the start; how does a country react to this unprecedented turn of events? MH370 is a chapter yet to be closed and now this. It's a nation in shock rather than in grieving.

Najib Razak's own step-grandmother was on MH17, so he showed plenty of restraint and chose not to point fingers. That quiet diplomacy probably helped because he was apparently the first national leader not called Putin to make personal contact with Alexander Borodai and help begin the process of bringing the bodies home.

You make a lot of good points, but if we're still talking about getting bodies back by next week, then quiet diplomacy didn't really expedite things. If no investigators are allowed in then that won't be a victory for quiet diplomacy.

It's not that simple. First and foremost, the Dutch are focused on bringing their country-people home. That's the most important thing.

And while I think they're within their rights to go HAM on Russia, we all know it doesn't work like that. Do the Dutch have the resources for a full-on attack against Russia? And what happens if Putin gets cute and decides to blast the Netherlands into space, citing that he had to defend his country? It's probably not likely, but who really knows with him?

It's not a question of whether they're mad. They're still working through their emotions, and may not have reached the anger stage yet. Whatever they do, it's their choice.

Pretty much this i think.Everybody still pretty much in the shock/grieving stage.

And no, i don't think that we have the resources to go after Putin in a millitary operation...and something to think about; The Netherland is pretty much an under water country if it's not for the Dams.It wouldn't take much t sink the whole country.

I'm certainly not advocating the Dutch go to war with the Ukraine or Russia, but to essentially let your country be bossed around on something as tragic as this supercedes grief and mourning because you can't mourn properly until all the bodies are returned. Saber rattling can expedite things.

 

[Teelie]

In the midst of seeing all the tragic news about doomed Malaysia Flight 17, I stumbled on this astonishing article (at least for me) about this man from Holland who "escaped" both doomed flights from Malaysia (the other being MH370 that's still unaccounted for).


I guess he must be extremely lucky to have avoided both flights or "someone" is out there looking out for him, personally, I think it's the latter.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/21/5922879/maarten-de-jonge-escaped-malaysian-flights-survivor

As it turns out the internet lied to us again. It's unfortunate that such fraudulent stories can go on like this and even more tragic the "good news" kind are often lies made by people looking for publicity or media outlets looking for page clicks. At least there is genuine good news the story of over 100 AIDS researchers was infact bogus and we didn't lose that many scientists.

There's only one problem: There's no evidence that de Jonge ever bought a ticket, or even had a reservation, for either one of the flights. His miraculous survival is an artifact of the Internet's echo chamber, where freaky news gets amplified beyond all proportion and few bother to check whether it's actually true.

There's also the odd case of the 100 AIDS scientists who reportedly died on the flight while en route to AIDS 2014, an international conference in Melbourne, Australia.

AIDS 2014's organizers have identified six delegates to the meeting who were on MH17, including one scientist, Joep Lange, who is widely mourned as a leading light in the field.

 

[Anita18]

I did think it was strange how THAT many scientists were flying in to Australia via Malaysia and not, ya know, directly to Australia.

And coming from Amsterdam, too. There aren't that many of us congregated in the same place. 6 is a much more believable number than 100.