Man of Steel vs Superman: The Movie

[TheFlamingCoco]

Superman: The Movie was great for it's time. Man Of Steel is great for it's time.


Does it really matter? Both movies were great.

That's the answer I put down. It doesn't have to be a competition.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

As great as the Donner films are, by the time MOS went into production I was sick of the shadow his work cast over the Superman universe. They're great movies, but they are not the be-all end-all of Superman, despite what Bryan Singer might say.

I was just getting sick of Donner Donner Donner, and I am so grateful that I now have a different cinematic interpretation of Superman to enjoy over and over in the years to come.

 

[Skrilla31]

I've said it before, Man of Steel should have been released in November or December...IMO its a couple steps above "entertaining blockbusters". Thats Pacific Rim

They're both blockbusters. They both emphasize spectacle over story.

Man Of Steel wasn't any more sophisticated than Pacific Rim. If anything it was less.

 

[maluka]

We obviously have to agree to disagree then. Mario Puzo's screenplay was pure genius here. Coupled with John Williams' timeless score and Christopher Reeve's winning performance.

In STM you get magical and mythical scenes like this

[YT]7ujuOikKgAE[/YT]

I don't find any comparable scenes, this sense of wonder and glory, in MoS.

I dislike this video. I think it's bad. Above all the special effects...

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

As great as the Donner films are, by the time MOS went into production I was sick of the shadow his work cast over the Superman universe. They're great movies, but they are not the be-all end-all of Superman, despite what Bryan Singer might say.

I was just getting sick of Donner Donner Donner, and I am so grateful that I now have a different cinematic interpretation of Superman to enjoy over and over in the years to come.

I will always believe Superman is the superior film, but gosh I was tired of the Donner/Reeve shadow; like they are the end all and be all of Superman. If MOS does anything it forces people to realize that Richard Donner didn't create Superman.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Donner influences still found their way into the movie, if indirectly, due to the influence the movies have had on the comics over the years. There are Donner elements that people probably wouldn't even notice because they've grown so accustomed to them, such as Clark talking to a Jor-El AI and putting on the suit for the first time in the fortress.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Donner influences still found their way into the movie, if indirectly, due to the influence the movies have had on the comics over the years. There are Donner elements that people probably wouldn't even notice because they've grown so accustomed to them, such as Clark talking to a Jor-El AI and putting on the suit for the first time in the fortress.

There are so many Donner things in MOS. Also, I find it funny that many people complained about the Jesus references in Donner movies and SR... and we have them all again in MOS.

 

[Chris Wallace]

It was Reeve's charm that carried the film.

I fully agree with you.

 

[davejames]

As much as I love MOS, and as much as I thought MOS did a better job getting inside Superman's head and humanizing him, I'd still have to rate the Donner movies higher just in terms of sheer entertainment value.

Those movies had everything-- an iconic score, an iconic performance from Reeve (both as Supes and Clark), exciting action sequences, witty dialogue, great villains, and a great sense of wonder that no other superhero movie has even come close to.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I will always believe Superman is the superior film, but gosh I was tired of the Donner/Reeve shadow; like they are the end all and be all of Superman. If MOS does anything it forces people to realize that Richard Donner didn't create Superman.

Might want to update that sig.
Is there a Man Of Steel vs. Superman Returns thread?

 

[The Sage]

Might want to update that sig.
Is there a Man Of Steel vs. Superman Returns thread?

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=459811&page=50

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

As much as I love MOS, and as much as I thought MOS did a better job getting inside Superman's head and humanizing him, I'd still have to rate the Donner movies higher just in terms of sheer entertainment value.

Those movies had everything-- an iconic score, an iconic performance from Reeve (both as Supes and Clark), exciting action sequences, witty dialogue, great villains, and a great sense of wonder that no other superhero movie has even come close to.

I agree about the sense of wonder. The old action scenes had a a revolutionary quality to it, but the actual "fighting" is a bit slow and wirey.

I find that the dialog ranges from great 'They just need the light to show them the way" to pretty hokey, TBH "That's a BAD outfit, man!"

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I don't recall any Jesus symbolism in Superman unless u just mean Jor El 'sending the people of earth his son'. But I was tired of the Jesus symbolism in SR and I was tired of it in MOS. Good lord if I see Superman make the nailed to the cross pose again someone is getting a nasty letter written to them. Maybe Tobias will be my scribe.

 

[Drewbee87]

I watched the Reeve's films in full for the first time before I went to see MOS, I thought the first two were just OK and nothing special. The rest of them were just absolutely atrocious, which doesn't seem to be an unpopular opinion. lol I'm shocked I didn't love the first 2 because I loved Superman Returns. Which is supposedly a continuation of the Donner films. Obviously my vote goes to MOS, it's my kind of Superman film!

 

[John Lambert]

I hate the whole "you can not choose one of them" mandate to Superman in all of the Reeves films. What type of a stupid plan is this, to send Superman to earth but insist he live about from humans. I just hate that.

I also think that the whole reverse time ending is just a horrible cop out.

I will also take Lois figuring out his disguise any day. It makes her actually seem competent and a good journalist. However much they tell us she is good, showing her figuring out the key to a pressing story shows us she is good.

 

[John Lambert]

It truly depends on your viewpoint and feeling of who and what Superman is.

There's something more wholesome and nostalgic about the Superman from the 40's through the 80's...the "truth, justice, and the American way" Superman, the "boy scout". The icon. That Superman was never only a superhero. But in MOS it seems like now he is. This iteration of Superman doesn't feel iconic. He's just a superhero no different than Iron Man, Spider-man, Batman, etc...

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maybe this day and age we don't need icons and heroes, maybe that sappy "hero of truth and justice" stuff is a thing of the past. He still saves people, no different than other heroes, is a good guy who wants the right things...

But both movies are fine, but people will lean towards the sort of Superman they want to see....the iconic "big, blue boy scout", or a two-fisted, super-strong action hero.

Exactly how is Superman less about "truth, justice and the American way" in Man of Steel. I don't get these claims at all. He chooses to hand himself over to the enemy in the hope of protecting everyone. He may not say "I stand for truth, justice and the American way", but he consistently acts to save and defend.

 

[John Lambert]

I think the "Truth, Justice and American Way" has indeed become a thing of the past. We see America more cynical and through a much more critical lense than in the past. Having things like that in a film nowadays would almost come off as American propaganda and the film will be called out on it.

That being said, I thought MOS did a great job at having the theme of "truth, justice and the American way" present in the film without actually saying that line. If you think about it and analyze the film, Superman represents all the classic American values while Zod represents the exact opposite.

Superman in the film represents hope and the ability to make your own choices and shape your own destiny, as well as the belief that we are all individuals. On the other hand, Zod comes from a hopeless world, which is something he plans to bring to Earth as well. He not only believes there is no such thing as the freedom to make your own choices but also believes that everyone must be stripped of their individuality and just be whatever they were genetically engineered to be in order for the Kryptonian race as a whole survive. This was the same mentality one can find in the Soviet Union or in books like 1984. Even the symbol of Zod's chest somewhat resembles the Communist flag.

So in STM Superman claims to represent the American way, in MOS Superman speaks and fights for the actual principals of the American Way, but avoids making is so clearly specific to one nation, and allows for people to realize that this principal is in no way limited to American, nor sadly is the opposite totally not present in America.

 

[blumatic]

They should just drop "Truth Justice and the American Way"

Superman lives a lie. Justice is a subjective concept. And what exactly is the American way.

Batman brings fear to those who prey on the fearful. That's a tag line or philosophy to lead by.

 

[John Lambert]

I still think saying MOS is better than Superman is like saying Lady Gaga is better than Madonna.
But I will say I liked Perry in MOS. I liked that he understood the human masses enough to know that telling the an alien was amongst them would cause them to flip out. I also loved how he worked so hard to protect Jenny. He of course can't hold a candle to the best Perry White from Lois & Clark, but he was better than the one from Superman.

I actually have to agree with this a lot, but "Lois and Clark" was a Daily Planet sit-com, so it is a totally different story. There even in the pilot we could understand why Clark loved Lois, even if he would also call her out as a snob. We also really do understand why even at the end of season 1 Lois loves Clark, without realizing he is Superman. Still, TV shows allow for much better character developments. I think if in MOS you bear in mind the whole tornado flashback is Clark telling this story to Lois, and that Clark knows that Lois not only refused to publish his story but refused to tell the military anything about him, the things makes more sense. I would have loved a scene where Clark and Lois talk about how she didn't publish his story, maybe on the phone just before the message from Zod, and another scene where we actually see Clark reading a hard-hitting Lane article and you can just tell he is thinking "I hope she never gets a sniff of me", maybe as part of his work in the bar scene.

 

[John Lambert]

I'm having a feeling that Swanwick would keep the trust for Superman. Sam Lane should be in a sequel, though. That would be neat

Maybe Sam Lane is the head of military intelligence, and Lois has to convince him to look the other way.

On the other hand, maybe the police car driver was Lana Lang, who is now the chief of police in Smallville (OK, I probably would never come up with this idea except Lois and Clark had a stand-in replacement for Lana, Rachel Harris, as sheriff in Smallville), so maybe Officer Lang never does file a report on giving Lois a ride, so there is no way for MI to figure it out.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I'm leaning a little more towards Man of Steel right now. I love the original Donner movie, but the third act is where the rails come off. Lex is a very goofy villian in the movie especially with his sidekicks, Otis and Ms. Teschmacher. I'm sure it had to do with the budget and special effects limitations of the times, but the third act does disappoint. It's a lot like Iron Man, they spent so long building up the hero, they forgot to give a role for the villain to play and it comes across as an afterthought. Superman is epic though, it has a great sense of wonder and just feels enormous. However, there were just things about Man of Steel I really liked more, the way both Clark and the villians had trouble adapting to having their powers, the work around for kyrptonite, basically explaining why it would affect him if used in later movies, having a third act that gives him someone to fight. The ending was great too, him explaining to the government he'll be their to help, but they don't own him and why he would work at the Daily Planet. There are pluses and minuses to both movies, I would've liked for Man of Steel to have a little lighter tone, since it is Superman after all, but I was really impressed with what we got. I left the theater the same way I left Batman Begins and Iron Man, thinking this was a great start to a franchise, not really what I expected, but a great movie.

 

[John-An]

I'll vote for MOS but STM is a great movie no matter which years has....

 

[mace1]

I found this comment/topic interesting from IMDB.



Why MOS is getting mixed reception
Frothbyte-

From Donner's Superman films to Lois and Clark to Smallville to Superman Returns, all of these have played Superman like a soap opera character. It basically WAS soap opera, just with a superhero. So most of the old timers to baby boomers and even up to the older generation X, they loved their Superman with all that soap operatish drama. Problem is, that kind of character doesn't sit well with the new generation. with So DC/WB took a risk and updated their Superman to fit the new generation, and that made the older generation hate it. If you ask me, DC/WB made the right decision. They might have made the risk now but this Superman will pave the way for it's tone in the future, and that can only mean success for it.

northernlad-

I agree 100%. Because of those earlier installments I think some have gotten it into their heads that this is how Superman should always be and unfortunately that isn't the case. He has to evolve and grow just like any other character. I think they've done the right thing in the long run for Superman.

SturmLiouville-

i definitely agree, a lot of people were used to the soap opera of reeve's superman and superman returns "lois' baby's daddy is superman!" drama
man of steel has much more heart than the other films... i'm sorry, but the one scene where he is clenching his fists slowly, fighting back the beam, risking his life for all of humanity... no other superhero film has any scene that comes CLOSE to that passion, that level of heart, the hope of fighting against something when all the odd's are against you
people were distracted by the action and therefore thought that "this movie only has action"

ugottrollolololol-

It has nothing to do with old superman films, the film falls into generic blockbuster territory like transformers/pirates of the carribbean in the hands of David Goyer & Zach Snyder. The film was not intended to be a masterpiece like the dark knight, it was suppose to be a money maker like Iron Man. What matters, despite the mixed reviews, is it's popularity among audiences that bring in the mega box office.

To read more comments.
Why MOS is getting mixed reception
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/board/flat/217208651?p=1

 

[John Lambert]

I loved "Lois and Clark", which was at times subtitled "A love triangle built for two", but I loved that MOS had Lois actually figure out that CK=SM (on more CK=KE, but anyway). After what the previous run of Superman movies did on the front of Lois knowing, I am glad they have no memory wipe kiss option.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Man of Steel has made me wonder why Superman loved Lois so much on the 78 movie that he went into a rage at he death and spun the world backwards. In MOS it made sense because it was only the start of a relationship, but in Superman he saved her from falling, had an interview with her and was ignored by her at work. Hey I buy that he liked her but not so intensely that he goes back in time to save her.