Man tricks girlfriend into taking abortion drug, gets 14 years.

[Endeavor]

This is why we need sex robots.

X10

 

[Feenix]

I see it. What I don't see is a father being absolved for caring for his child. I do not care how the child came into being. The child is not at fault and the father is still the father. It's as simple as that. I also see very dangerous precedents in letting mothers or fathers opt out because they didn't sign up for parenthood.

Wow...I guess that's an option. I disagree that is the right way to go. Unless the mother proves she's unfit to be a caregiver then it's best for the child to stay with her, unless she voluntarily cedes those rights. I don't support anyone in foster system if there is someone willing to care for them. The state can always set up a trust for the child or a CPS monitor to ensure the child is being well looked after.

Committing a crime would make her unfit in my eyes. But, okay. Mom gets to keep the kid. Fine. But she cannnot reap any reward for it. By that, I mean the father will give nothing to her. Nothing at all. She cannot get any money from him for any reason.

The reason why this is so frustrating is because the amount of child support a woman receives depends on how much a man makes. I've seen child support payments of $2500/month and over. In no way shape or form does a woman need that much money to provide the basics for the child. This is fraud at it's finest. And for the most part, the women who pull these stunts are using the child support money for their own means.

 

[charl_huntress]

I lied to some people and they gave me their money. Important thing is I got my money, who cares that I lied to get it? And they did want to give it to me. Because I lied.

What you are saying makes no sense.

 

[Feenix]

If you are going to have sex with someone, you better be ready for the possibility of having a child. Even if it is protected, there is still a chance.

I think we're well past the idea that procreation is the main reason for having sex. People can have sex for pleasure and not want kids. And thankfully, in this day and age, they don't have to if someone gets pregnant.

 

[charl_huntress]

Committing a crime would make her unfit in my eyes. But, okay. Mom gets to keep the kid. Fine. But she cannnot reap any reward for it. By that, I mean the father will give nothing to her. Nothing at all. She cannot get any money from him for any reason.

The reason why this is so frustrating is because the amount of child support a woman receives depends on how much a man makes. I've seen child support payments of $2500/month and over. In no way shape or form does a woman need that much money to provide the basics for the child. This is fraud at it's finest. And for the most part, the women who pull these stunts are using the child support money for their own means.

Lying isn't really a crime...generally speaking...unless you lie in a court of law or to a police officer.

As for child support...meh...a friend of mine gets a lot of child support, but her husband makes 200K a year and the children attend very expensive private schools. The money supports the children and the mother's ability to support the children. It's not the same as alimony which are payments to the ex-spouse.

 

[Dark Raven]

Why did I start this thread? It doesn't feel like a thread I would've started lol.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Indeed.

On the flip side, should the woman be allowed to withhold the birth control pill without the consent or knowledge of her partner? If that was the case here, then the guy should be allowed off the hook if the woman chooses to keep the child. Pregnancy by deception should void any monetary obligations the father may have towards the mother or the child.

If you are a man and don't want a baby, don't have sex.

If a father doesn't want to deal with a child it is very simply. They can give up their parental rights. Why are some acting like just because the mother decides to have a child, that he is "forced" to support the little one?

 

[Feenix]

Lying isn't really a crime...generally speaking...unless you lie in a court of law or to a police officer.

As for child support...meh...a friend of mine gets a lot of child support, but her husband makes 200K a year and the children attend very expensive private schools. The money supports the children and the mother's ability to support the children. It's not the same as alimony which are payments to the ex-spouse.

If you gain something from that lie, then it becomes fraud (ie. con artists who scam people out of their money).

I know a woman who gets child support (not nearly as much as she wanted because she cheated on her wealthy boyfriend with a guy who made a tenth of what the other guy made and the poorer guy ended up being the father) and she used the money to buy a $2000 jacket for herself. So, no, the child support is not just "meh." The child support mine as well be spousal support, given how often the women use the money for their own means. Not to mention that the guys are at the mercy of the women who want to enroll the kids in every damn sport and social group they can think of without consent from the father.

 

[Feenix]

If you are a man and don't want a baby, don't have sex.

If a father doesn't want to deal with a child it is very simply. They can give up their parental rights. Why are some acting like just because the mother decides to have a child, that he is "forced" to support the little one?

Because he is. Giving up parental rights just means they don't want visitation, custody, or any decision making responsibility regarding the child. It doesn't mean that they don't have to give money to the mom to support the kid.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

I feel like if the father wants the woman to get an abortion, and she refuses, she should have to forfeit any child support. The woman can abort without the father's consent, this only seems fair.

If she still wants the baby to raise on her own, then she legitimately wants the child and isn't simply a gold digging fraud.

If women in the future get pregnant while looking for a handout and one is no longer guaranteed, I think we'll see less of this type of thing(But I really don't think this type of thing happens all that frequently).

 

[TheBat812]

I see it. What I don't see is a father being absolved for caring for his child. I do not care how the child came into being. The child is not at fault and the father is still the father. It's as simple as that. I also see very dangerous precedents in letting mothers or fathers opt out because they didn't sign up for parenthood.

The father has a moral responsibility, yes, and one would hope he would do the right thing and help raise him/her. But in the case were discussing, he shouldn't have legal financial obligation. It's unfortunate and unfair for the child, but unfortunately their mom was a lying piece of ****.

 

[Pink Ranger]

This is why we need sex robots.

We've already got them. The problem is they reach sentience and then start thinking they can sing. Humanity cannot survive another album release like Prism.

 

[Feenix]

I feel like if the father wants the woman to get an abortion, and she refuses, she should have to forfeit any child support. The woman can abort without the father's consent, this only seems fair.

If she still wants the baby to raise on her own, then she legitimately wants the child and isn't simply a gold digging fraud.

If women in the future get pregnant while looking for a handout and one is no longer guaranteed, I think we'll see less of this type of thing(But I really don't think this type of thing happens all that frequently).

In the area where I'm from, it happens all the time, unfortunately. I live in a very rich province where people can make a lot of money (and I mean 6 figures at the age of 18). It's the prime location for any golddigger and they're everywhere.

 

[TheBat812]

I feel like if the father wants the woman to get an abortion, and she refuses, she should have to forfeit any child support. The woman can abort without the father's consent, this only seems fair.

If she still wants the baby to raise on her own, then she legitimately wants the child and isn't simply a gold digging fraud.

If women in the future get pregnant while looking for a handout and one is no longer guaranteed, I think we'll see less of this type of thing(But I really don't think this type of thing happens all that frequently).

I think also given our ridiculous overpopulation issue, this might become necessary.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because he is. Giving up parental rights just means they don't want visitation, custody, or any decision making responsibility regarding the child. It doesn't mean that they don't have to give money to the mom to support the kid.

I am looking it up, and I am seeing conflicting reports, but I'll give it to you. Say you can't give up your rights and are forced to pay child support.

The correct answer here is then don't have sex. That is the risk. Whether someone claims they are on birth control or not, a baby is the result of sex. Unless you are somehow forced against your will, it really is that simply.

 

[Teelie]

This is why we need sex robots.

Then we run the risk of creating new STD's.

Imagine having sex with a robot only to find out you now have an STD that makes you spam your friends with penile/breast enhancement advertisements every time you talk to them.

 

[charl_huntress]

The father has a moral responsibility, yes, and one would hope he would do the right thing and help raise him/her. But in the case were discussing, he shouldn't have legal financial obligation. It's unfortunate and unfair for the child, but unfortunately their mom was a lying piece of ****.

He should have financial obligation because he is the child's father. He is not absolved of that even though the mother is a lying piece of ****.

How about this for a twist... Woman gets pregnant by man who said he is sterile. Does she have the right to abandon her responsibility for the child because he lied?

If you gain something from that lie, then it becomes fraud (ie. con artists who scam people out of their money).

I know a woman who gets child support (not nearly as much as she wanted because she cheated on her wealthy boyfriend with a guy who made a tenth of what the other guy made and the poorer guy ended up being the father) and she used the money to buy a $2000 jacket for herself. So, no, the child support is not just "meh." The child support mine as well be spousal support, given how often the women use the money for their own means. Not to mention that the guys are at the mercy of the women who want to enroll the kids in every damn sport and social group they can think of without consent from the father.

Fraud is a civil matter. It's not criminal in most cases.

Child support is meant to support the child. That's what it's meant to be used for. The situation you described is obviously not what child support should be used for, and if the father was to find out he could take action to gain custody of the child. Also remember, child support is given for the person who the court awarded custody. If a father does not want to pay support he can fight for greater custody, which would negate the support.

The correct answer here is then don't have sex. That is the risk. Whether someone claims they are on birth control or not, a baby is the result of sex. Unless you are somehow forced against your will, it really is that simply.

Do the crime...pay the time. It is as simple as that.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

He should have financial obligation because he is the child's father. He is not absolved of that even though the mother is a lying piece of ****.

How about this for a twist... Woman gets pregnant by man who said he is sterile. Does she have the right to abandon her responsibility for the child because he lied?

Yes. She can have an abortion whether the father likes it or not.

 

[Feenix]

I am looking it up, and I am seeing conflicting reports, but I'll give it to you. Say you can't give up your rights and are forced to pay child support.

The correct answer here is then don't have sex. That is the risk. Whether someone claims they are on birth control or not, a baby is the result of sex. Unless you are somehow forced against your will, it really is that simply.

No, it's not that simple at all. I think we've moved past the idea that sex is only for procreation. We're allowed to have sex for pleasure without wanting children.

If a woman tells a guy she had her tubes tied because she didn't want kids and he doesn't want kids either and they have sex and he finds out afterwards she was lying and is now pregnant, he shouldn't have to be responsible for a child that he thought she could never have (and he never wanted). In this case, the man thought there was 0 chance of pregnancy and only engaged in sex because of that. It's coercion and fraud.

 

[TheBat812]

He should have financial obligation because he is the child's father. He is not absolved of that even though the mother is a lying piece of ****.

How about this for a twist... Woman gets pregnant by man who said he is sterile. Does she have the right to abandon her responsibility for the child because he lied?

Yes. She can make him pay for an abortion, or for child support if she chooses to keep it. Or she can put the baby into foster care and abandon her responsibility. She has all the power to make decisions here, which is exactly the point were making.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No, it's not that simple at all. I think we've moved past the idea that sex is only for procreation. We're allowed to have sex for pleasure without wanting children.

If a woman tells a guy she had her tubes tied because she didn't want kids and he doesn't want kids either and they have sex and he finds out afterwards she was lying and is now pregnant, he shouldn't have to be responsible for a child that he thought she could never have (and he never wanted). In this case, the man thought there was 0 chance of pregnancy and only engaged in sex because of that. It's coercion and fraud.

You are allowed to have sex for pleasure, no doubt. Plenty do it everyday and it doesn't result in children.

But it is the risk you run by having sex. If you are depending on someone else telling you they can't have children, that is on you. If that is what you are depending on you better be asking for a doctor's appointment with your partner and for them to waive their right to confidentiality.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

What you are saying makes no sense.

You mean that you have nowhere to go but accept that lying someone else to manipulate them into doing what you want (in this case, obtain money from him forever) is wrong.

 

[Feenix]

He should have financial obligation because he is the child's father. He is not absolved of that even though the mother is a lying piece of ****.

How about this for a twist... Woman gets pregnant by man who said he is sterile. Does she have the right to abandon her responsibility for the child because he lied?

Fraud is a civil matter. It's not criminal in most cases.

Child support is meant to support the child. That's what it's meant to be used for. The situation you described is obviously not what child support should be used for, and if the father was to find out he could take action to gain custody of the child. Also remember, child support is given for the person who the court awarded custody. If a father does want to pay support he can fight for greater custody, which would negate the support.

Do the crime...pay the time. It is as simple as that.

You're forgetting the bias that courts show in favor of women. Besides, the guy didn't want the child to begin with, why would he fight for custody? If a woman is not using child support for the benefit of the child, she forfeits any right to receive child suppot.

And, it's not as simple as that. Some people don't want kids. Should they be denied the right to have sex for pleasure because they don't want to procreate? No. And that's why we have birth control and abortion (or adoption if you wanted to go that route). You place your trust in another person that what they are telling you is the truth and you go ahead with something, thinking that what you are presented with are the facts. If it turns out that those "facts" were actually lies and had you been presented with the real truth, you wouldn't have gone ahead with the action, you have been coerced and defrauded. Whatever is the result of the fraud is not your responsibility.

That would be like saying if you donate to a cancer victim who turns out to be a con artist it's your own fault because you should have known that sometimes it can be a scam.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What is with this "want" thing? Since when does "want" have anything to do with it?

 

[Feenix]

Yes. She can have an abortion whether the father likes it or not.

This. Only men have to live with the responsibility of a child. Women get to choose if they want to be responsible or not. That's not fair.