Marvel and DC.

[Spider-Bat]

For the most part I just read DC and Marvel, although I'm about to branch out 'cause I want to start reading some StarWars comics and check out some Hellboy, anyway, Since 2000 these comics have just gotten worse it's like they have brought on these writers that just don't get it and they do things that have really screwed up these characters to the point that they're unrecognizable.

Marvel's really gone over board. I used to read alot from them but now I'm just down to Spider-man and I'm about to dump that too.

They have done so many dumb things and they keep getting worse.

Why does everything have to be some big dumb conspiracy that has a stupid ending, or why do they have to kill of characters that you know will be back in a year. Just to try to make money and it's a cheap thing to do.

Why not try writing something that is actually good.

And these artists nowadays, what the heck! are they 5 year olds? I've seen some comics that just look scribbled.

And I am so tired of the moron kids that try to defend those crappy artists with no talent, listen kids, it's not cool, or edgy, it's garbage!

That's another thing, I hate these kids that have encouraged this B.S., the types that whine all the time and carry around lunch boxes, and they're 17 and older. Yeesh!

There's nothing wrong with art that looks awesome. Then there's the type of art that is just so plain and washed out.

Batman's improved some with the andy Kubert/ Morrison stuff, they tried to bring Batman back to how he was in the 70's when they first cleaned him up.

Hopefully he'll stay good and get better.

But really these comics need to get revamped big time.

 

[Darthphere]

Kubert has been off Batman for like 3 months.

And seriously, you should just stop reading comics, and talking about them.

 

[Cosmic]

If you don't like what they're doing, then take your business elsewhere. I'm sure there are plenty of independents out there who are struggling to turn a profit, and would love for you to buy at least one of their books.

 

[film_geek]

I can't read the big two any more. I still have Runaways on my Pull list, but once Whedon has left that so shall I. besides that, I'll pick up the occasional trade of Batman, and some of the ultimate universe. Oh, and Punisher Max till Ennis leaves.

I just can't stand the "here's a WORLD CHANGING BIG HUGE MEGA TWIST!... that we retcon two months later."

It got old, fast.

But the funny thing is, I'm reading more comics right now then I ever was before, once you move past the big two, your eyes are opened to a whole world of other, much better titles.

If you're interested in looking for some good indie titles, PM me and I'll suggest some stuff.

 

[Themanofbat]

Marvel's really gone over board. I used to read alot from them but now I'm just down to Spider-man and I'm about to dump that too.

They have done so many dumb things and they keep getting worse.

Batman's improved some with the andy Kubert/ Morrison stuff, they tried to bring Batman back to how he was in the 70's when they first cleaned him up.

Hopefully he'll stay good and get better.

It's funny that Spider-Man gets accused of being crappy because they want to return to his good 70's grassroots, but you say the opposite when it's done to Batman.

What a maroon....

 

[Aristotle]

I can't read the big two any more. I still have Runaways on my Pull list, but once Whedon has left that so shall I. besides that, I'll pick up the occasional trade of Batman, and some of the ultimate universe. Oh, and Punisher Max till Ennis leaves.

I just can't stand the "here's a WORLD CHANGING BIG HUGE MEGA TWIST!... that we retcon two months later."

It got old, fast.

But the funny thing is, I'm reading more comics right now then I ever was before, once you move past the big two, your eyes are opened to a whole world of other, much better titles.

If you're interested in looking for some good indie titles, PM me and I'll suggest some stuff.

Oh, I never got tired of the indie-comics-snob. Do they clone you people in a factory somewhere? It's always the same canard with the lot of you. "The Big Two suck. You're basically ******ed if you read that ****. Me, I'm smart enough to read indies."

Turns out, you can enjoy indie books, and also enjoy comic books that are about what comics SHOULD be about: big strong guys in funky costumes beating the **** out of the world's problems.

You indie snobs need to toss out the page you took from the music-snob's book, and just enjoy comics again.

 

[Aristotle]

It's funny that Spider-Man gets accused of being crappy because they want to return to his good 70's grassroots, but you say the opposite when it's done to Batman.

Yeah, because returning Batman to the way he was in the 1970s (which arguably didn't even happen) was just done by tweaking who the character was a little bit. Not by sacrificing the last twenty years of continuity to some s**tf**k demon.

 

[Banshee]

Have you read preacher??

I'm not sure if you are including Vertigo in Marvel and DC, cause if not, you should definitely branch out into Vertigo. A few years ago I started collecting the Preacher trades (which is to this date my favorite series of comics ever), then I got started on Y The Last Man, and then on Fables. I'm waiting for the last trade of Y, and collect Fables as the Trades come out and loving every minute of it. If you aren't including Vertigo as DC, then start reading them.

Also, I love Hellboy, so there's many a good thing waiting for you there.

 

[Banshee]

Oh yeah... and sorry to double post... but I'm drunk so I don't give a ****, but I enjoy plenty of Marvel and DC mainstream too. I don't really agree with the fact that both companies are losing steam, but Vertigo has tons of great stuff to offer. Thats my plug for Preacher. Its that good.

 

[film_geek]

Oh, I never got tired of the indie-comics-snob. Do they clone you people in a factory somewhere? It's always the same canard with the lot of you. "The Big Two suck. You're basically ******ed if you read that ****. Me, I'm smart enough to read indies."

Turns out, you can enjoy indie books, and also enjoy comic books that are about what comics SHOULD be about: big strong guys in funky costumes beating the **** out of the world's problems.

You indie snobs need to toss out the page you took from the music-snob's book, and just enjoy comics again.

first off, if I came off as a snob, didn't mean to. I have my fair share of both DC and Marvel trades, I just don't read any of their current titles. Actually, that's not true. I still read Runaways, when Joss releases it, and I get the Punisher Max trades. I also read a lot of the Ultimate universe in trade. I don't shun the big two, I'm just not a fan of these big events that keep going no where and then get retconed right afterwards.

now

"The Big Two suck. You're basically ******ed if you read that ****. Me, I'm smart enough to read indies."

Did I say that once? no. I didn't, nor did I imply it. and by indie books, I mean that. comic books that are released independently from the big two. not arty pretentious crap (not putting that stuff down either, but I can only take so much of it). Indie can mean anything that's not Marvel or DC.

I think you should not get so defensive. the guy who started this thread said he was sick of DC and Marvel, so I was saying he didn't have to quit comics completely, I went though the same thing a while ago.

enjoy comic books that are about what comics SHOULD be about: big strong guys in funky costumes beating the **** out of the world's problems.

Ever read the Boys? that's a word for word description of it, and it's indie as they come. the big two wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Hack/Slash and Astonishing Wolf Man could also fit into that description, and both of them are non Marvel/DC.

again, the guy who posted this was expressing his disappointment with Marvel and DC. He was making it out ot be that he was going to be reading less comics now because of that (that's how I took it anyway) I was just trying to show him he doesn't need to give up comics, there's a who other world if he's sick of Marvel and DC. I read lots of their stuff, just nothing they are putting out now.

So please, in future, don't lump me in with the group of the snobs. I didn't mean to sound like one.

also, maybe try not to be as hostile. we're all here to geek out over stuff, why can't we all just get along?

 

[Addendum]

I stopped reading DC's superhero comics when they had the "death" of Superman, and the entire Knightfall saga in the Batman comics. The rest of hero stuff didn't interest me, but thankfully DC launched the Vertigo line of comics and that has basically kept my interest.

As for Marvel, I only read their Transformers comics. It wasn't until JMS started writing for Spidey that I took an interest, until Spidey joined the "New Avengers". That's when I stopped reading it since I didn't want to buy another series just to find out what's going with Spidey. The rest of the Marvel heroes never interested me. Looks like I've been done with Marvel for about 4 years now and counting.

The rest of the comics I still read are some manga and Dave Sim's Cerebus

 

[Themanofbat]

While the percantages have varied over the last 30+ years, I've always enjoyed a good mix of Marvel, DC's and independants.

 

[DoomRulz]

I'm gonna start reading Dark Horse now...I read the three AvP comics I had and am gonna start looking for more Alien and Predator stuff.

 

[Obi-Ron]

comic books that are about what comics SHOULD be about: big strong guys in funky costumes beating the **** out of the world's problems.

Wrong, on so many levels.

 

[film_geek]

Wrong, on so many levels.

Agreed.

To the people speaking of Vertigo, I have a question for you. Has anyone read a BAD series from vertigo?

Because so far, I haven't. Fables (one of my top three best comic series ever made) Jack of Fables, Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Garth Ennis's War Stories, Y the last Man (although the it's weak in my opinion, BKV has done much better things).

So really... have they put out anything bad? I haven't found it yet.

 

[Cosmic]

Turns out, you can enjoy indie books, and also enjoy comic books that are about what comics SHOULD be about: big strong guys in funky costumes beating the **** out of the world's problems.

You indie snobs need to toss out the page you took from the music-snob's book, and just enjoy comics again.

Comics are about so much more than this. But either way, you can still read about superheroes and SF/fantasy stories in independent comics, if that's what you're looking for. You don't have to limit yourself to Marvel and DC, just because that's what you're familiar with, or whatever.

 

[film_geek]

Comics are about so much more than this. But either way, you can still read about superheroes and SF/fantasy stories in independent comics, if that's what you're looking for. You don't have to limit yourself to Marvel and DC, just because that's what you're familiar with, or whatever.

See, that's all I was trying to say, DC and Marvel are only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Obi-Ron]

You'd think having a manga section in every large bookstore would have made it obvious.

 

[GNR]

Non Marvel/DC stuff available in singles or trades...

The American Way
The Authority
Planetary
Rising Stars
Astro City
Casanova
Lobster Johnson:The Iron Prometheus
The End League
Umbrella Academy
Dynamo 5
Proof
'76
Black Summer
Doktor Sleepless

I was reading only DC and Marvel for a while early last year,things can get boring if you just stick to the same stuff.That's no crack at the companies,it applies to anything you're into.

You just have to know what you want.Nobody was exactly shouting from the rooftops about how good the recent Lobster Johnson mini was,but I'm very into these period pieces.I took a chance on it and I loved it.

Don't expect to get wowed by every single book fanboys worship and praise,it all comes down to what you're into.

 

[Mladen]

so stop *****ing and go out and try something else.

i keep hearing people saying they're 'about to branch out' or some ****. either branch out, or don't, but you get no points for moaning about dc marvel, and then continuing to buy only dc and marvel.


as for anybody who has planted themselves firmly on either the 'indi' or the 'hero' side:
calling somebody either a snob or a ****** for not liking something you like is really really dumb. A lot of people can enjoy both indi books and superhero books quite comfortably. I tend to find most superhero stories intensely dull, but I've definately read some really excellent and intelligent superhero stories. In the same way, I've read a lot of seriously dismal independant books, but I've also read some really original and excellent ones. But If I'd put my foot down and said 'I hate superhero books' or 'i hate indi snobs' I'd have never gotten to read some truly excellent comics.
so its your loss really.

 

[Elijya]

Mladen, would you mind doing me a favor and please find the 'shift' key?

Agreed.

To the people speaking of Vertigo, I have a question for you. Has anyone read a BAD series from vertigo?

Because so far, I haven't. Fables (one of my top three best comic series ever made) Jack of Fables, Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Garth Ennis's War Stories, Y the last Man (although the it's weak in my opinion, BKV has done much better things).

So really... have they put out anything bad? I haven't found it yet.

Yes. Although quality is of course subjective, Vertigo has released dozens of miniseries or quickly canceled series that you have probably never heard of because nobody talks about them. With the exception of War Stories, all the titles you mentioned are long running and critically acclaimed, and you probably heard lots of people speak about them which is why you picked them up. Added to that list would be Invisibles, Sandman, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, 100 Bullets, etc. But you have probably never heard of Sci-Spy, Brave Old World, Bigg Time, Deadenders, Menz Insana, Faultlines, Tainted, Vimanarama, Streets, Four Horsemen, The Minx, Strange Adventures, Heart of the Beast or Tattered Banners. I have never heard of them, either. I picked them randomly off a list of Vertigo titles. I don't know the first thing about any of them beyond their titles. All I can observe is that anybody who did ever read them did not think they were good enough to tell all their friends about to get other people reading. And you can probably draw from that that these titles you would probably find so-so at best, if you put faith in word-of-mouth, which I do. It is entirely possible that one of these could be an overlooked and under appreciated gem that is to your liking, but I would wager you'd have to read all of them and enjoy only one of them.

Of Vertigo series which I HAVE read that I did not personally find that special, I would recommend staying away from The Crusades, Codename: Knockout, Bangcock, and Bite Club.

 

[Xofenroht]

I don't read as many comics as most people on these boards, but when I look at my pull list, there is really only one indie-title on there and that's "Castle Waiting" which I just recently added.

As much as people might want to complain about Marvel and DC, both companies do deserve some amount of respect. If you think the people involved in producing these "righteous" indie-titles weren't influenced by the big two at some point in their lives, then you're kidding your self.

It really is a shame to see a comic book fan degrading another brand of comics, especially when the whole comic book medium has been looked down upon for so long by the literary community (and we're just recently getting the proper respect.)

My point is, read whatever title catches your interest. If you find that most of them are indie-titles, that's fine, but so what? People have varying interests in the kinds of stories they want to be told and chances are, without this variety of people, none of us would have very much to read.

 

[GNR]

I don't read as many comics as most people on these boards, but when I look at my pull list, there is really only one indie-title on there and that's "Castle Waiting" which I just recently added.

As much as people might want to complain about Marvel and DC, both companies do deserve some amount of respect. If you think the people involved in producing these "righteous" indie-titles weren't influenced by the big two at some point in their lives, then you're kidding your self.

It really is a shame to see a comic book fan degrading another brand of comics, especially when the whole comic book medium has been looked down upon for so long by the literary community (and we're just recently getting the proper respect.)

My point is, read whatever title catches your interest. If you find that most of them are indie-titles, that's fine, but so what? People have varying interests in the kinds of stories they want to be told and chances are, without this variety of people, none of us would have very much to read.

Marvel is doing a better job right now producing solid solo titles and not trying to tie them all together like Countdown is.

 

[Aristotle]

Ever read the Boys? that's a word for word description of it, and it's indie as they come. the big two wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Well, WildStorm published it for awhile.

So please, in future, don't lump me in with the group of the snobs. I didn't mean to sound like one.

also, maybe try not to be as hostile. we're all here to geek out over stuff, why can't we all just get along?

Sorry, I had the worst day of my life on Friday, and it's made me lash out at pretty much everyone.

 

[Aristotle]

To the people speaking of Vertigo, I have a question for you. Has anyone read a BAD series from vertigo?

Army@Love is shockingly, stunningly, alarmingly bad. Which you wouldn't expect from a Vertigo series.

You'd think having a manga section in every large bookstore would have made it obvious.

It makes it obvious that American pop culture has an unhealthy fetish with Japan.

Non Marvel/DC stuff available in singles or trades...

First three titles in the list are DC.

You just have to know what you want.Nobody was exactly shouting from the rooftops about how good the recent Lobster Johnson mini was,but I'm very into these period pieces.I took a chance on it and I loved it.

I love everything from that corner of Dark Horse. Dark Horse is a solid f'n publisher. They put out so much, for all different tastes and styles, and it's very impressive for an indie.

calling somebody either a snob or a ****** for not liking something you like is really really dumb. A lot of people can enjoy both indi books and superhero books quite comfortably. I tend to find most superhero stories intensely dull, but I've definately read some really excellent and intelligent superhero stories. In the same way, I've read a lot of seriously dismal independant books, but I've also read some really original and excellent ones. But If I'd put my foot down and said 'I hate superhero books' or 'i hate indi snobs' I'd have never gotten to read some truly excellent comics.
so its your loss really.

I said I hate indie snobs, not indie books.