Marvel Solicitions for February 2011

[JewishHobbit]

It took me about 3 reads to finally understand Final Crisis, but when I did it really made an impression on me. Coming in pretty new into DC it was jaring, but once I figured out what tie-ins to read to make it work I was impressed. I'd say it's one of my favorite crossovers to date.

 

[hippie_hunter]

No ones watching it because its on a channel no one has. Failed marketing on Disney's part.

Most people should have Disney XD. All the major cable providers offer it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I've got it and have only seen one episode. It was good but I just never watch television enough to catch it again.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It took me about 3 reads to finally understand Final Crisis, but when I did it really made an impression on me. Coming in pretty new into DC it was jaring, but once I figured out what tie-ins to read to make it work I was impressed. I'd say it's one of my favorite crossovers to date.

I think the biggest problem with Final Crisis is that it simply tried to do way too much. I think that it should have just simply focused on Batman's struggle against Darkseid, Superman travelling the multiverse, the resurrection of Barry Allen, the death of the Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman's posession by the Anti-Life Equation. And the villain simply should have been Darkseid.

Everything else such as Mandrak should have just been tossed aside.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I agree on the Mandrak part. That's still the one thing that I have trouble getting a grasp on.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I agree on the Mandrak part. That's still the one thing that I have trouble getting a grasp on.

Did you read Superman Beyond?

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yes but not the first time through. I didn't want to pay the price for a stupid gimmick. I later found out that it was important and bought it and read it then. I've not yet read it in chronological order along with the rest of the series so until I do that's going to remain the one aspect that was confusing. I know the gist, but not in the reading portion of the story.

 

[Themanofbat]

I think this talk of crossovers is distracting from the fact Marvel & DC are a bunch of greedy money ****es.

Fixed...

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think this talk of crossovers is distracting from the fact Marvel & DC are a bunch of greedy money ****es. But mostly Marvel. And Spider-Man sucks.

Fixed Fixed, with a little extra sugar on top.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Lololololololololololololololololololol!

 

[Justkidding]

Most people should have Disney XD. All the major cable providers offer it.

Well, NC is just a black hole of not getting it. I've gone through 3 different cable providers and nothing.

 

[kguillou]

It took me about 3 reads to finally understand Final Crisis, but when I did it really made an impression on me. Coming in pretty new into DC it was jaring, but once I figured out what tie-ins to read to make it work I was impressed. I'd say it's one of my favorite crossovers to date.

I will give Grant Morrison credit for trying something new but man it was just too weird. I mean Darkseid is defeated by Superman singing him away? What? I mean come on. Plus it all reeked of editorial interference. There were a lot of loose ends, like the whole Libra thing.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Editorial influence really did hurt Final Crisis. Imagine how great Countdown would have been if they had Grant Morrison controlling it and bringing in good writers like Geoff Johns and Kurt Busiek instead of Adam Beechen and Sean McKeever.

 

[Iron Man]

The thing that puts me off DC's crossovers is that they're usually written for the sole purpose of retconning and rewriting history for the 50th time. Whether it's "Zero Hour" or "Infinite Crisis", I'm always a little put off because no matter how good the actual event is, it's a reminder of the fact that they just can't get their act together enough to keep continuity straight for more than a few years at a time.

 

[Tron Bonne]

How did editorial hurt FC? Far as I'm aware, the only change was minor ones toward the end, and the rest was exactly as Morrison wrote?

The thing that puts me off DC's crossovers is that they're usually written for the sole purpose of retconning and rewriting history for the 50th time. Whether it's "Zero Hour" or "Infinite Crisis", I'm always a little put off because no matter how good the actual event is, it's a reminder of the fact that they just can't get their act together enough to keep continuity straight for more than a few years at a time.

Well, you would probably enjoy FC and BN then, since I don't think either of those do any kind of major rectonning to continuity

 

[hippie_hunter]

The thing that puts me off DC's crossovers is that they're usually written for the sole purpose of retconning and rewriting history for the 50th time. Whether it's "Zero Hour" or "Infinite Crisis", I'm always a little put off because no matter how good the actual event is, it's a reminder of the fact that they just can't get their act together enough to keep continuity straight for more than a few years at a time.

To be fair, Infinite Crisis fixed a lot of things that needed to be fixed. Such as Wonder Woman, Donna Troy, Superman, the Doom Patrol, Hawkman, etc.

 

[Tron Bonne]

To be fair, Infinite Crisis fixed a lot of things that needed to be fixed. Such as Wonder Woman, Donna Troy, Superman, the Doom Patrol, Hawkman, etc.

What did they recton about her in IC that was broken again? All I really remember in her part of the story is the whole BS self-discovery stuff, her convincing Batman not to kill Luthor, and bringing back her alter ego (though I think that might have actually been her OYL series).

 

[hippie_hunter]

What did they recton about her in IC that was broken again? All I really remember in her part of the story is the whole BS self-discovery stuff, her convincing Batman not to kill Luthor, and bringing back her alter ego (though I think that might have actually been her OYL series).

Wonder Woman appearing after COIE with her first "appearance" during Legends , having Donna Troy appear before Diana, removing her status as founding member of the Justice League.

Restoring Wonder Woman to her original appearing the same time as Batman, Superman, the Flash, etc., appearing before Wonder Girl, and restoring her founding status as a member of the Justice League is much, much better.

 

[CConn]

Fixed...

Fixed Fixed, with a little extra sugar on top.

Listen, guys, I know what you're doing. Marvel is your favorite publisher, and thusly you're compelled to defend it.

But it's not about that. It's not like politics where both sides are always equally wrong. Marvel is simply worse in this respect.

I'm not saying that because I dislike Marvel, I'm not saying that because I like DC, I'm saying that from a 100% unbias analytical point of view.

As I said before, you don't even really need to mention DC. The simple fact is, I find that Marvel has done things, and written things that outright insult their readership. Something I have not seen from any other publisher (Dark Horse, Boom!, whatever).

 

[JewishHobbit]

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. I agree completely actually.

How did editorial hurt FC? Far as I'm aware, the only change was minor ones toward the end, and the rest was exactly as Morrison wrote?

Out of curiosity, what changes toward the end were made?

 

[Tron Bonne]

Out of curiosity, what changes toward the end were made?

Not sure, can't remember specifics, but seems like there was some minor changes that he was asked to make in the last issue.

Wonder Woman appearing after COIE with her first "appearance" during Legends , having Donna Troy appear before Diana, removing her status as founding member of the Justice League.

Restoring Wonder Woman to her original appearing the same time as Batman, Superman, the Flash, etc., appearing before Wonder Girl, and restoring her founding status as a member of the Justice League is much, much better.

Oh, okay. I honestly don't remember any of that, but good changes and all.

 

[CConn]

I think the thing that hurt FC the most was simply the way in which Morrison choose to write it. Once everything he's actually trying to do in the book is laid out, it's amazing, but I've yet to hear of anyone who's gotten even half of that nuance upon the first read through.

 

[kguillou]

Yeah but see, something like Watchmen for example, i definitely missed a whole lot of things my first time reading it, but i still thought it was an amazing read. Final Crisis was just plain disjointed and weird. He was trying was too hard. I mean his Batman and Robin run for example, its weird but its still coherent and enjoyable and you actually have an idea of what is going on. Final Crisis barely had any of that coherency going on.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well, I kind of sorta agree, but at the same time, I don't. I can agree it may feel pretty disjointed at first, but you kind of have to go at it with a certain mindset. Unlike a lot of things, the gutter space is much longer, and most of the time you're only getting a cause and effect, without most of the middle action that you traditionally get. Like, one of the best examples I remember being picked out was in the first issue, you see a prehistoric Vandal Savage break into a woman's hut, then the next panel you see him carrying her off, without really having the whole thing drawn out. You just have to fill in more gaps than traditionally is expected, and I think once you tackle it with that in mind it's easier to read. I mean, it definitely requires more thought and attention than more events of that nature, but it's not unreadable.

 

[Iron Man]

Well, you would probably enjoy FC and BN then, since I don't think either of those do any kind of major rectonning to continuity

Final Crisis wasn't for me. Blackest Night was a pretty good read though.