Marvel's losing its edge and DC's getting its back

[DACrowe]

P.P.S.

(sorry for making three posts )

Bryan singer hardly played it safe. He was the risk taker. He was the one who put his neck on the line twice while fighting with Fox. He stressed character over action and depth over sfx. He had less to work with on both films and made more. And considering he made the first real superhero movie since Batman & Robin and the genre was considered box office posion shows someone unafraid to take risks.

Sure he didn't kill off any major characters (okay besides Stryker, Sabretooth, Toad and Senator Kellly) he crafted an excellent story that still didn't have its third act in which several character arcs were still building (Wolverine obviously, but also Rogue in the forefront and even Cyclops and of course Jean) that showed a passion to get these characters right. He made a movie that stressed diologue over explosions.

That is a huge risk for a summer blockbuster. Making a superhero movie nearly 2 1/2 hours in today's market ain't exactly playing it safe. Playing it safe is bowing down to whatever the studio wants the mto do, including killing off characters that the story obviously stressed shouldn't die. Writing off arcs taht were meant to carry the movies (Rogue was the beginning of the first X-Men movie and in some respects the end and her character arc was a cliffhanger in X2 and they jsut write her out essientially in X3), and to MAKE A 90 MINUTE GANG BANG BIG EXPLOSION MICHAEL BAY-ESQUE ACTION MOVIE IS THE DEFINTION OF PLAYING IT SAFE.

As for infidelities to the comics, Singer did take quite a few liberties but I would argue they worked outside of Storm and for every one Singer did Ratner/Fox took five for X3 alone, and to much more mediocre results too though.

 

[Erzengel]

I want to reiterate one of my points of about too many characters and not enough screen time. I thought characters like Colossus and Angel would have more screen time but it was almost blink and you'd miss them.

 

[BMM]

yet the monopoly remains in their favor as proven by the huge success of the mega-selling Fantastic 4 and X-Men films . . .

Keep in mind that if X3 was soooooo terrible as some of you guys say, it would not be approaching $500 million worldwide. It would have flopped much like Snakes On A Plane or even Fantastic Four after bad buzz...

That says something.

How can Fantastic Four be a flop and a mega success at the same time?

I still think Marvel has the edge for now.

 

[DACrowe]

In the box office Marvel is whooping DC's ass, no qualms about it.

But in quality....well that is all subjective anyway but IMO of the 3 modern DC superhero movies 1 was great, 1 was decent and 1 was awful. But Marvel's track record ain't that shiny when one looks at. Tastes differ but usually somone will name 4 or 5 Marvel films they like and the rest they don't and Marvel has made what, 10 or 11 films in less than a decade now?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

How can Fantastic Four be a flop and a mega success at the same time?

I said that it was a mega-seller. I was referring to both films collectively as financial successes for FOX however.

But standing alone and box office dollars notwithstanding, the FF franchise name is generally mud among fans, moviegoers and critics. It's reputation is among the poorest in the entire CBM pantheon. For example, look at our front page poll. 1.1%!!! It's sad really...a true waste of potential. And I seriously doubt the sequel will come even close to the box office take of its predecessor...the moviegoing audience and fanboybase will not be duped twice.

The only way they can avoid this catastrophe is to do it right...and I sincerely believe 9, 10 months is not enough. But I'll continue to hope for the best.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

BB, SR and V4V were all superior to most marvel movies IMO, BB is superior to all of them, and SR is very underrated, and V4V is just awesome.

 

[Red Mask]

Superman Returns dragged on too long.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I loved it.

 

[DarKush]

I think Marvel's characters are more easy to translate to the big screen and work more as human, relatable characters. Of course, there has been a lot of Marvel movies over the years and quality sometimes gets lost in the rush of movies coming out.

However, I think Marvel hasn't lost its edge at all. The Spider-Man movies easily swamp both Superman Returns, V for Vendetta, and Batman Begins in box office and popularity. I think the X-films also swamped SR, VFV, and BB. Though the Hulk and Daredevil got mixed reviews, they did okay at the box office. Fantastic Four also exceeded expectations. The Blade movies also did very well, the first two so above expectations that the weaknesses of Trinity were glaring.

The only box office disappointments I think were Punisher (which is underrated in my opinion) and Elektra. But for the bigger properties, they almost all did pretty well. They are even talking about doing a Hulk sequel.

And Marvel hasn't released Iron Man, Captain America, or Thor yet. There are the proposed Wolverine and Magneto prequels, and X-Men 4. There are also other characters like Black Panther, Ant-Man, and Namor that have at one or other been talked about as big screen properties.

After Batman and Superman, DC's roster starts to thin out regarding movie franchises: Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern. To me, the Flash would be roughly the easiest one to make, Green Lantern would probably have a big, risky FX budget, and Wonder Woman being a female superhero might have problems avoiding exploitative sexuality and camp to be considered a serious franchise.

After them, who does DC have: Green Arrow? Hawkgirl? Hawkman? Plastic Man? Blue Beetle & Booster Gold? Doom Patrol? Supergirl? I think Idenity Crisis and the OMAC Project have gone a great way toward making the DC characters more relatable and interesting, but I don't know if its enough to make me want to watch Elongated Man in a movie, esp. since Mr. Fantastic basically has the same power.

An interesting, though non-box office approach DC might try to take with their heroes is to go for the deeper, more contemplative movies that might not pull in the cash of action-fest movies but might hold up longer and give the audience something to think about.

 

[marcvader]

Its close as far as quality. I loved Supes I and II, V4V, Batman and Batman Begins. Superman Returns was OK in my book. But Marvel has the numbers with Elektra and Trinity being the only flat out failures.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

P.P.S.

(sorry for making three posts )

Bryan singer hardly played it safe. He was the risk taker. He was the one who put his neck on the line twice while fighting with Fox. He stressed character over action and depth over sfx. He had less to work with on both films and made more. And considering he made the first real superhero movie since Batman & Robin and the genre was considered box office posion shows someone unafraid to take risks.

Sure he didn't kill off any major characters (okay besides Stryker, Sabretooth, Toad and Senator Kellly) he crafted an excellent story that still didn't have its third act in which several character arcs were still building (Wolverine obviously, but also Rogue in the forefront and even Cyclops and of course Jean) that showed a passion to get these characters right. He made a movie that stressed diologue over explosions.

That is a huge risk for a summer blockbuster. Making a superhero movie nearly 2 1/2 hours in today's market ain't exactly playing it safe. Playing it safe is bowing down to whatever the studio wants the mto do, including killing off characters that the story obviously stressed shouldn't die. Writing off arcs taht were meant to carry the movies (Rogue was the beginning of the first X-Men movie and in some respects the end and her character arc was a cliffhanger in X2 and they jsut write her out essientially in X3), and to MAKE A 90 MINUTE GANG BANG BIG EXPLOSION MICHAEL BAY-ESQUE ACTION MOVIE IS THE DEFINTION OF PLAYING IT SAFE.

As for infidelities to the comics, Singer did take quite a few liberties but I would argue they worked outside of Storm and for every one Singer did Ratner/Fox took five for X3 alone, and to much more mediocre results too though.

Very well said.

 

[brainchild81]

BB, SR and V4V were all superior to most marvel movies IMO, BB is superior to all of them, and SR is very underrated, and V4V is just awesome.

Just read your list. You have SR listed as Better than the Masterpiece that was Sin City. Sin City IMO is better than BB. Sin City is up there w/the Spidey films fighting for the top slot. It might even be a lil' better.

The only box office disappointments I think were Punisher (which is underrated in my opinion)

Big time

 

[MalroyChick11]

Well....DC can always turn to Vertigo.

 

[CaptainCanada]

In terms of their films, Marvel has produced a greater variety of films, most by different studios, so there's a wider variety of quality to choose from. Financially, Marvel definitely dwarfs DC when their hits are compared; Spider-Man 1-2 and X-Men 1-3 did much better than Superman Returns and Batman Begins. Apart from the big two, DC has mostly stuck with adapting Vertigo titles and Alan Moore stories (which, honestly, I don't really think of as DC films, just Alan Moore films), while Marvel has optioned a bunch of their other properties, mostly to middling results, financially or critically.

Looking to the future:

Marvel
* Spider-Man 3, which has a license to print money.
* Fantastic Four 2, which could be either a modest success or a victim of the first film's severe problems.
* Wolverine, another high-probability success.
* Magneto, which, if handled right, could be good.

As well, the have exclusive control of its remaining heavies (mostly related to the Avengers franchise), with a very ambitious slate of films in various stages of development. Iron Man, Captain America, and the Avengers feature are blockbuster-level events, while some (like the Ant-Man feature) are more likely to be lower-volume cult films.

DC
* The Dark Knight, which everyone is looking forward to.
* Superman VI, which will probably be scaled back from the financial investment in the first one. I think this revival has nowhere to go but up, but it wasn't the unqualified success everyone was hoping for.

Beyond that, DC's slate isn't as clear. They're working on Wonder Woman, but I haven't heard much beyond that.

 

[Red Mask]

Well....DC can always turn to Vertigo.

Right on! Vertigo rocks the house!

 

[Erzengel]

Okay I was watching FF on HBO last night, (Marco....Polo) ugh. It's not a bad movie just nowhere near Marvels Great 6 (X1, X2, Spidey 1 & 2, Blade 1 & 2).

Marvel has the edge of movies coming out. FF2 and Ghost Rider, Spiderman 3. Iron Man, Wolverine, Magneto.

But my point is with lackluster movies like FF, Blade Trinity, Elektra, and I keep saying this despite it's gross X3. Marvel has work on it's quality and stop releasing this half ass movies.

 

[Hades]

Hmm, Quality wise I think Dc has the edge right now. I really can't stand half the Marvel movies out there. I think most of them are horrible in my opinion. They seem more concerned about pushing them out there so rake in the quick dough on the superheromovie fad instead of actually caring about the quality.

Ah, I don't know. There have been very little comic book adaptions I've actually liked. I think these comic book movies adaptions still have a while to mature before they reach their potential. It just seems like Hollywood has no idea how to make a good superhero movie, not to say there hasn't been any. But they can't seem to get past all those stereotypes of graphic novels and superheroes.

Though, I must say Sin City would have to be very close to a perfect adaptation.

 

[brainchild81]

Ditto for Sin City

 

[Red Mask]

But Sin City isn't a supehero flick.

 

[Mike059jig]

Nope is what ever other comic book movie should be

 

[Red Mask]

So ever comic book films should be nothing?

 

[Chris Wallace]

But Sin City isn't a supehero flick.

A direct adaptation? Can't be done. Shouldn't be done.

 

[Red Mask]

The pigs are flying great this year. Que pasa?

 

[brainchild81]

Marvel managed to make a good Thor movie. Will GL wash away the bad Taste of Jonah Hex?

 

[kedrell]

It's funny reading all these old posts knowing how things would change in just a few short years.