Marvel's losing its edge and DC's getting its back

[Lord Valumart]

I do think that if Avengers fails, which is HIGHLY unlikely at this point, then Marvel will take a big hit and probably think of holding back on some projects. While DC has the money maker that is Batman, lets be honest, the current batch of films are dull and anything coming after B&R would be seen as amazing, it has character that could be good on film.

I mean a Flash movie is a no brainer. Simple idea, easy on the FX, decent rouges and for some reason never been brought up for a film. With the utter disaster of GL, DC are less likely to take risks on things that aren't Batman or Superman related. DC, at the moment, is screwed film wise, unless they can realise what they actually have that they can put out there.

 

[SnuffTheRooster]

Reading the first page of this thread makes me laugh. yep, Superman Returns and Fantastic Four were big cash cows

 

[cherokeesam]

I do think that if Avengers fails, which is HIGHLY unlikely at this point, then Marvel will take a big hit and probably think of holding back on some projects. While DC has the money maker that is Batman, lets be honest, the current batch of films are dull and anything coming after B&R would be seen as amazing, it has character that could be good on film.

I mean a Flash movie is a no brainer. Simple idea, easy on the FX, decent rouges and for some reason never been brought up for a film. With the utter disaster of GL, DC are less likely to take risks on things that aren't Batman or Superman related. DC, at the moment, is screwed film wise, unless they can realise what they actually have that they can put out there.

I wouldn't call DC screwed.
Man of Steel may or may not turn out to be a success that makes people forget the travesty that was Superman Returns; but even beyond that, I think there's ample evidence that DC continues to be a strong force on television, if not the movies. (Smallville's long and successful run; and their toons --- from the TAS for Batman and Superman through the Justice League series and Teen Titans and now continuing with Young Justice --- always wind up generating more audiences and good reviews than any Marvel animated.)

I seriously think if Warners drops back and regroups and concentrates on establishing TV as their domain while ceding the more expensive gamble of big-screen moviemaking to Marvel, they'd actually be hugely successful.

DC just needs to make sure that their characters are authentic, and not let people like David O. Kelley try to rewrite them into something that they're not.

 

[moviedoors]

Smallville was a hit for the CW, but the CW is a minor compared to the other networks and the ratings their shows pull in. It's not even close.

I barely even count Batman or Superman as proof of DC's clout anyway. Those characters are bigger than their publisher. DC has yet to prove they can break a character that isn't one of those icons, and Marvel has been excelling at it. I imagine that post-Green Lantern, there's much hand wringing going on between WB and DC over how to move forward.

 

[cherokeesam]

Smallville was a hit for the CW, but the CW is a minor compared to the other networks and the ratings their shows pull in. It's not even close.

I barely even count Batman or Superman as proof of DC's clout anyway. Those characters are bigger than their publisher. DC has yet to prove they can break a character that isn't one of those icons, and Marvel has been excelling at it. I imagine that post-Green Lantern, there's much hand wringing going on between WB and DC over how to move forward.

I don't think there's *that* much hand-wringing going on.
DC has to be patting themselves on the back over the success of the new 52 reboot in comics ---- every single ish has absolutely dominated comic book sales and blown Marvel sales out of the water --- and, again, DC animated continues to be a safe bet all around, even the "lesser" titles. Their only problem is trying to translate comics to film (other than Bats, of course); that's something only the Marvel characters have been able to do successfully thus far.

 

[OsGom]

DC has to be patting themselves on the back over the success of the new 52 reboot in comics ---- every single ish has absolutely dominated comic book sales and blown Marvel sales out of the water

I think it is too early to judge the success of the New 52. I think it was a brilliant move but we should wait until the novelty wears off before we label it an actual success. Give it another month.

Certainly most reviews I have read are positive.

As far as DC Entertainment goes, WB will not fund or commit too any overall strategy for any titles except BM. I think once BMR is in the books, assuming MOS is a hit and depending on the overall success of The Avengers will force WB to step back and re-evaluate a strategy for DC Entertainment.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Reading the first page of this thread makes me laugh. yep, Superman Returns and Fantastic Four were big cash cows

I believe FF outperformed SR.
I think they should do a Justice League movie without any regard for existing franchises. Just put the team together and go for it. Get a different Batman, different Superman & a different Lantern and follow along the lines of the animated movies/series.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Oh boy. Does the OP regret his choice for a topic title now.

 

[Jolawsci]

The first few pages of this thread are pretty entertaining, eh?

 

[Tyrone Parker]

I believe FF outperformed SR.
I think they should do a Justice League movie without any regard for existing franchises. Just put the team together and go for it. Get a different Batman, different Superman & a different Lantern and follow along the lines of the animated movies/series.

How you figure that? SR $391,081,192 to FF $330,579,719. US numbers SR $200,081,192 FF $154,696,080

 

[kedrell]

I think he means when you factor in the relative budgets of the two films. FF was quite profitable and thus got a sequel 2 years later. SR barely made a profit once everything was added up and thus got no sequel. SR cost at least $100M more than FF did.

 

[chiefchirpa]

The most important thing is Avengers movie is a reality and JLA is a vaporware, you bunch of Nostrada-fails...

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Marvel absolutely have a formula for superhero movies now, a working blueprint. You can see it in all their modern (Blade onwards) films, but especially in the Marvel Studios movies, Thor and Captain America especially.

- Getting an intresting director who is suited to the material (Kenneth Branagh, Bryan Singer), rather than an action director.
- Hiring actors (Tobey Maguire, Hugh Jackman) rather than movie stars or action heroes. Robert Downey Jr is the pinnacle of this; he was considered a risk, but it turned out to be a fantastic choice and the movie has made him a superstar.
- A strong yet simple storyline.
- Multiple characters with their own subplots, orbiting the central hero.
- Plot strands which tie up in the next movie/cliffhangers.
- Close relationship to the source material, whilst streamlining/updating it.
- Above all, a reliance and confidence in the characters themselves to appeal to audiences and sell the movies.

I feel that Green Lantern was the first attempt by Warrner Bros to make a Marvel-style movie, even down to the extra scene after the credits. The mistake was having Martin Campbell, who is essentially a good action movie director, rather than a director more suited to space opera and superheroics.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I think he means when you factor in the relative budgets of the two films. FF was quite profitable and thus got a sequel 2 years later. SR barely made a profit once everything was added up and thus got no sequel. SR cost at least $100M more than FF did.

That is basically what I meant.

 

[cherokeesam]

Marvel absolutely have a formula for superhero movies now, a working blueprint. You can see it in all their modern (Blade onwards) films, but especially in the Marvel Studios movies, Thor and Captain America especially.

- Getting an intresting director who is suited to the material (Kenneth Branagh, Bryan Singer), rather than an action director.
- Hiring actors (Tobey Maguire, Hugh Jackman) rather than movie stars or action heroes. Robert Downey Jr is the pinnacle of this; he was considered a risk, but it turned out to be a fantastic choice and the movie has made him a superstar.
- A strong yet simple storyline.
- Multiple characters with their own subplots, orbiting the central hero.
- Plot strands which tie up in the next movie/cliffhangers.
- Close relationship to the source material, whilst streamlining/updating it.
- Above all, a reliance and confidence in the characters themselves to appeal to audiences and sell the movies.

I feel that Green Lantern was the first attempt by Warrner Bros to make a Marvel-style movie, even down to the extra scene after the credits. The mistake was having Martin Campbell, who is essentially a good action movie director, rather than a director more suited to space opera and superheroics.

That's a pretty good assessment of a "Marvel formula," if there is one....but it's unfair to pin GL's failure on Martin Campbell. If we go by your criteria, it failed on several levels, including Ryan Reynolds (definitely *not* an actor's actor, and certainly closer to action hero); a muddled storyline that couldn't decide who was the lamer supervillain, Parallax or Hector Hammond; and the script certainly failed to have confidence in Hal Jordan as a character with more than one dimension, as well as lacking faith in the concept of Green Lantern as a superhero in general.

 

[kedrell]

Marvel's formula basically is to put the characters first rather than the spectacle. If the audience enjoys the characters then that's a solid foundation to build upon. And they have faith that their characters, once properly translated, are indeed interesting. The GL movie put character much lower down on it's TO DO list.

 

[cherokeesam]

Marvel's formula basically is to put the characters first rather than the spectacle. If the audience enjoys the characters then that's a solid foundation to build upon. And they have faith that their characters, once properly translated, are indeed interesting. The GL movie put character much lower down on it's TO DO list.

tru dat

And I'm happy with everything I've seen so far of the Avengers trailer...Joss definitely seems to be emphasizing characters over spectacle here.

 

[K'Prime]

If Marvel can finally launch that elusive franchise with a leading woman DC are going to look even more worthless

I think that would be cool in general.shouldn't really think about petty stuff like how it makes dc look.but which lady?

Ms.Marvel?
She-Hulk?
Misty knight?

not sure how the right work exactly.Doesn't fox have the movie rights to a lot of the marvel females?mutant related anyways

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

This year, Marvel released Thor, Captain America and X-Men: First Class, all of which kicked ass. DC had... *sigh*.... Green Lantern. The OP was waaay off.

The only good property DC has is Batman. Every other hero they've tried to make a movie with has sucked, including Superman Returns imo. I think what holds them back is the majority of their characters are a bit goofier and outlandish than Marvel's. Then again we got a good Thor movie, so any handicap is possible to overcome with the right production team.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I think if you can make a Thor movie work, which I thought Branagh did superbly, you can make any DC character work, especially something like GL.

I didnt hate GL, but compared to the Marvel movies we got this year, it just isnt up to par, and the box office shows this.

 

[OsGom]

I think that would be cool in general.shouldn't really think about petty stuff like how it makes dc look.but which lady?

Ms.Marvel?
She-Hulk?
Misty knight?

not sure how the right work exactly.Doesn't fox have the movie rights to a lot of the marvel females?mutant related anyways

I think once aliens are introduced into the MU (apparently in the Avengers) then it opens the door the Kree and a Ms. Marvel movie. I wouldn't mind seeing a Nova movie but that might be too similar to GL.

She-Hulk is tied to the Hulk so we would at least have to wait for another Hulk movie to introduce Jennifer. I would love to see it but I would think that would be Phase 3. I would like to see effort adapted form the Byrne style of the late 80's where there was more humor and she broke the 4th wall.

Daughters of the Dragon would be amazing but in more of a Kung-fu style epic. Definitely worth a look because the budget wouldn't need to be huge.

Black Widow is a very real possibility but again I don't think she should be straight up superhero but more of a espionage thriller like Bond or Bourne. She could go against Hydra or possibly explore her Cold War roots with Red Gaurdian and all that.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Marvel definitely needs to do a female movie if they want to be serious about this new franchise.

 

[KenK]

Marvel definitely needs to do a female movie if they want to be serious about this new franchise.

Is there even a Marvel book out that features a female as the primary hero? i.e., without being part of a team? With the exception of say, Ms. Marvel (and no offense, but if WB couldn't sell Green Lantern, Marvel definitely isn't gonna touch Ms. Marvel for a big-budget solo film)

 

[DoomsdayApex]

To be honest, Marvel is excelling at the moment, but most films such as Captain America, Thor, Ironman 2, Ghost Rider, Fantastic Four (& sequel), Blade Trinity, Spiderman 3, Elektra, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, X-Men 3, Hulk and Punisher: Warzone have been far from stellar. In fact, they're borderline mediocre.

I don't want DC to follow Marvel's formula. Marvel is too conservative (afraid to take risks). Following Marvel's formula got us the atrocity known as the Green Lantern.

If WB and DC could just put aside their egotistical antics and listen to the fans who got them thus far, these executives would be raking in alot more dough than they are currently.

And let's be honest, WB got fortunate (understatement) with Christopher Nolan. He was a godsend. If it weren't for the Nolans, Marvel would be manhandling WB/DC.

If I were those idiotic executives, I'd skip the origin stories on the big screen and focus efforts on television and a JLA film with proper writing and acting. Sure, the JLA film wouldn't make more than 400 million (neither did Batman Begins), but the idea is to introduce the characters to the rest of the world. This film should solely be focused on expanding the DC Universe.

Offer Nolan (a billion), Blomkamp, Jackson, Snyder or D. Jones whatever they need and go from there. Get the general audience interested in Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern with the right approach.

 

[KenK]

To be honest, Marvel is excelling at the moment, but most films such as Captain America, Thor, Ironman 2, Ghost Rider, Fantastic Four (& sequel), Blade Trinity, Spiderman 3, Elektra, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, X-Men 3, Hulk and Punisher: Warzone have been far from stellar. In fact, they're borderline mediocre.

Cap, Thor, and IM 2 are very debatable regarding their quality. There's no overwhelming consensus of opinions on any of these films to label any of these films "borderline mediocre". And I'd exclude the third films of franchises, because there's yet to be any comic book film that's made it to a third film, where the third film was as good as it could be.

I don't want DC to follow Marvel's formula. Marvel is too conservative (afraid to take risks). Following Marvel's formula got us the atrocity known as the Green Lantern.

Now you're just trying to make this a Marvel vs. DC fight for no reason. Trying to associate Green Lantern's failure with Marvel is just a ridiculous reach that you've presented no basis for.

If WB and DC could just put aside their egotistical antics and listen to the fans who got them thus far, these executives would be raking in alot more dough than they are currently.

You're oversimplifying, and overestimating fan input.

And let's be honest, WB got fortunate (understatement) with Christopher Nolan. He was a godsend. If it weren't for the Nolans, Marvel would be manhandling WB/DC.

What are you even talking about? Seriously.

If I were those idiotic executives, I'd skip the origin stories on the big screen and focus efforts on television

Like they tried to do with Wonder Woman? To say nothing of the fact that it was being developed by a producer responsible for putting close to a dozen critically acclaimed shows on television? Yeah, it didn't work out, but an effort was made.

and a JLA film with proper writing and acting. Sure, the JLA film wouldn't make more than 400 million (neither did Batman Begins), but the idea is to introduce the characters to the rest of the world. This film should solely be focused on expanding the DC Universe.

I know you'd like to think it's that easy, but such an undertaking requires a lot of planning.

Offer Nolan (a billion), Blomkamp, Jackson, Snyder or D. Jones whatever they need and go from there. Get the general audience interested in Wonder Woman, The Flash, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern with the right approach.

People need to get off Nolan's jock. I love what he's done with Batman, but for the love of God, people are really taking this deification of the man to such an insane level, I can't take some of you people seriously. Stop suggesting him for every goddamn comic book movie! I honestly believe that a lot of you don't even stop to think whether or not a particular director would even be a fit for certain characters. You just have this misguided belief that Nolan can do everything, and at that point, I don't wanna hear anything you have to say after that.