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Masks covering the whole face...

Morgoth

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I don't get what the big deal is about masks in some of these comic movies, they say it won't look right or you won't get the emotion or the actor's too vane to cover his face.

Or even some masks that don't cover the whole thing but they still don't do it. I'm so tired of excuses. If you have the imagination and talent anything's possible you can make something look cool.

Juggernaut doesn't have the face part on his helmet, Bullseye didn't even get a mask (even though he wanted a costume in the movie), and Doom didn't get his mask till the very end, but yet look at Darth Vader and the upcoming V for vendetta.

Are these filmmakers forgetting Darth, They got plenty of emotion out of him, and GG in Spidey worked well, even though at times you could still see his eyes and mouth.

But I get so tired of the lack of imagination and excuses for the fantastic in these fantasies when costumes and masks can work and has been proven to work. You just have to have someone with the mind to do it, if they don't you get a bland movie 'cause they didn't care.
 
WIth Juggernaut,even if they made a suit like the one in the comics, They'd need a huge person to fill the suit,because Juggy is as big as the Hulk.

Bullseye is one of the few villians who in my opinion had the best costume change. It was so good they changed it to his comic look as well.

And,that was Doom in the FF movie?
 
Morgoth said:
Are these filmmakers forgetting Darth, They got plenty of emotion out of him, and GG in Spidey worked well, even though at times you could still see his eyes and mouth.

Vader had one emotion, which was irritated ("Asteroids do not concern me...") or just annoyed. You never get any real emotion from Vader until his mask is off at the end of RotJ. The whole point of his wearing mask was to hide his emotions and show his lack of humanity and his becoming more machine than man.

As for the Goblin, Dafoe's face is so expressive - watch the mirror scene - that it's just flat-out stupidity to cover it up with molded plastic. He actually looks like the comicbook Green Goblin more than the mask does. Raimi has since admitted the mistake of having a character's face completely covered. Notice how often Spidey takes his mask off.
 
Kevin Roegele said:
As for the Goblin, Dafoe's face is so expressive - watch the mirror scene - that it's just flat-out stupidity to cover it up with molded plastic. He actually looks like the comicbook Green Goblin more than the mask does. Raimi has since admitted the mistake of having a character's face completely covered. Notice how often Spidey takes his mask off.

Yup. I thought Dafoe was perfect for the role but as you said, it was stupidity to cover his face up. I always thought they could've just used face paint...it would've been the only way I can think of to make use of Willem's face.
 
Why use a mask at all for Dafoe? They didn't even have to use a helmet, just have the armor and over that have Willem wearing a tattered cloak with the hood drawn over his head, and give him glowing eyes to show that he isn't fully human. And possibly give him a mouth cover like Scorpion from the MK games.
 
Two things:

1) Vader and V are both supposed to be enigmas. They're poor examples for how wonderfully expressive characters with masks can be.

2) They had to hire a man with a very distinctive voice to do Darth Vader in order to nail the performance. It's not like it would have worked with just anybody. Can you imagine Vinnie Jones "voice acting?"
 
Apparently actors find it hard to act without facial expressions, thus why Cyclops' visor got a major overhaul between movies.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
2) They had to hire a man with a very distinctive voice to do Darth Vader in order to nail the performance. It's not like it would have worked with just anybody. Can you imagine Vinnie Jones "voice acting?"
You made valid points, but a different actor voiced Vader than the one who was in the suit. In fact there were three actors for Vader in Return of the Jedi. It's been done recently in Hellboy, where Abe Sapien is voiced by a different person all together than the guy who's actually in the make up. Still, I think Juggernaut should show his face because he's not enigmatic like V or Vader, like you said.
 
The Phantom said:
You made valid points, but a different actor voiced Vader than the one who was in the suit. In fact there were three actors for Vader in Return of the Jedi. It's been done recently in Hellboy, where Abe Sapien is voiced by a different person all together than the guy who's actually in the make up. Still, I think Juggernaut should show his face because he's not enigmatic like V or Vader, like you said.

No, this is exactly my point. People who perform well in suits and masks (the guy who played Darth Vader and Doug Jones in Hellboy) are not necessarily good voice actors. The same applies with actors whose faces you see onscreen. I think Tobey Maguire is a good actor, but I'm glad that they found ways to get his mask off a couple of times in Spider-Man because it's just not very interesting to watch him talk without actually being able to see him emote. And in cases like that they can't just get a voice actor in there to fix it because then you'd have two different voices. And you can't just get a guy with a compelling voice to play every superhero because sometimes they're not very good or interesting beyond the mask. It's a complicated situation.
 
Kevin Roegele said:
Vader had one emotion, which was irritated ("Asteroids do not concern me...") or just annoyed. You never get any real emotion from Vader until his mask is off at the end of RotJ. The whole point of his wearing mask was to hide his emotions and show his lack of humanity and his becoming more machine than man.
How irritated would you be if somebody left you lying on the edge of a lava pit w/all your limbs severed?
 
Chris Wallace said:
How irritated would you be if somebody left you lying on the edge of a lava pit w/all your limbs severed?


LOL! Pretty f***ing pissed!
 
Chris Wallace said:
How irritated would you be if somebody left you lying on the edge of a lava pit w/all your limbs severed?
Not to mention the process it would take to piss with that suit on.
 
Well I dunno about you lot, but obviously the first thing I'd be thinking would be "Hopefully I will still be able to successfully emote under a full face mask...".
 
The Phantom said:
Not to mention the process it would take to piss with that suit on.
There's a mental image I could've done without. Why not bring up the fact that once the suit was on, his first thoughts were about his wife, while he was now pretty much useless to a woman?
 
Mr. Magoo said:
No, this is exactly my point. People who perform well in suits and masks (the guy who played Darth Vader and Doug Jones in Hellboy) are not necessarily good voice actors. The same applies with actors whose faces you see onscreen. I think Tobey Maguire is a good actor, but I'm glad that they found ways to get his mask off a couple of times in Spider-Man because it's just not very interesting to watch him talk without actually being able to see him emote. And in cases like that they can't just get a voice actor in there to fix it because then you'd have two different voices. And you can't just get a guy with a compelling voice to play every superhero because sometimes they're not very good or interesting beyond the mask. It's a complicated situation.
Valid points. Tobey is an expressive actor who can speak entire sentences w/just his eyes. The mask takes away his most valuable tool, which is why I didn't mind the frequent unmaskings. There are times when the mask helps a performance (Dr. Doom), times when it hurts (had they put one on Wolverine) & times when the actor is just able to do his/her job regardless of anything covering their face. (Thing)
 
Chris Wallace said:
There's a mental image I could've done without. Why not bring up the fact that once the suit was on, his first thoughts were about his wife, while he was now pretty much useless to a woman?
I'm pretty sure they gave room in that area of the suit for him "emote".
 
Kevin Roegele said:
Vader had one emotion, which was irritated ("Asteroids do not concern me...") or just annoyed. You never get any real emotion from Vader until his mask is off at the end of RotJ. The whole point of his wearing mask was to hide his emotions and show his lack of humanity and his becoming more machine than man.

As for the Goblin, Dafoe's face is so expressive - watch the mirror scene - that it's just flat-out stupidity to cover it up with molded plastic. He actually looks like the comicbook Green Goblin more than the mask does. Raimi has since admitted the mistake of having a character's face completely covered. Notice how often Spidey takes his mask off.


Reading your post makes me think about Weird Al's Spider-Man parody and that line about how Norman's wearing a power rangers mask even though his real face is scarier,that part always cracks me up.
 
They could've given GG a mask, but it should be like this:

Just a pull over mask, like Batman's, but there should be a big mouth opening, his skin and mouth which are uncovered, could be painted green. This way we can see Goblin talk. I can't explain it very well, but you can get the idea from this.
 
I'm sure they would have much rather given Willem Dafore a latex mask or no mask at all, but it's kind of hard to justify, if you know what I mean. Him having a green mask in his house that just happens to go with the glider suit is a reach, but it's not so much a question of internal logic as it is of plausibility. The rubber mask thing, on the other hand: what do you do about that? I know he's "ca-razay", but that basically means he'd have to break into a Halloween store, for some reason, decide he liked some weird goblin mask that just happened to be expressive enough to allow him to emote (so plausibility rears its ugly head in either scenario), steal it and break the **** out of that joint, or maybe he does his own makeup right before he goes 'a-killing. They made him nuts, but he wasn't *that* nuts. Plus it would look like crap on top of his glider suit. Unless he dressed in the whole "Goblin" ensemble, but, again, there'd be no reason for him to do that. You can throw your hands up in the air and say "Crazy", but it really is a question of character consistency and internal logic that has to be addressed. In this case I think contriving some way, no matter how whacked out, to get him into a goblin suit would have been worse for the film than his non-expressive mask was. Plus, at least Raimi got to go tongue-in-cheek with it on that one rooftop scene, so it wasn't all bad.
 
What should they do about Iron Man? Leave him the way he is or modify his helmet to were his mouth will be exposed? Lets say for example they did something similar for Iron Man's helmet like they did with Robocop's helmet were his mouth would be exposed would it work or would it take away from the helmet?

robocop.jpeg
 
Maybe it's the comic fan in me, but I say they keep his face covered behind the mask. If they want to show his reactions during a battle, they could either zoom in on his eyes or maybe do an inside the armor type shot if it's possible.
 
Chris Wallace said:
Valid points. Tobey is an expressive actor who can speak entire sentences w/just his eyes. The mask takes away his most valuable tool, which is why I didn't mind the frequent unmaskings. There are times when the mask helps a performance (Dr. Doom), times when it hurts (had they put one on Wolverine) & times when the actor is just able to do his/her job regardless of anything covering their face. (Thing)
It's worthwhile to notice that the two instances you give as good examples both leave the actor's eyes visible. I think that Marsden has a harder time acting with his eyes covered up all the time than McMahon has with Doom's mask which covers everything but the eyes.
 
<(o_o)> said:
What should they do about Iron Man? Leave him the way he is or modify his helmet to were his mouth will be exposed? Lets say for example they did something similar for Iron Man's helmet like they did with Robocop's helmet were his mouth would be exposed would it work or would it take away from the helmet?

robocop.jpeg
They tried that with Steel. Iron Man is not Robocop.
 
Crowley9 said:
It's worthwhile to notice that the two instances you give as good examples both leave the actor's eyes visible. I think that Marsden has a harder time acting with his eyes covered up all the time than McMahon has with Doom's mask which covers everything but the eyes.
There's validity in your statement. I remember Marsden saying something about his performance on film not measuring up to what he did in rehearsal, & Singer couldn't understand why. So Marsden removed the visor & showed him.
 

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