Max Payne 3 (Official SHH Crew details in OP!)

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think "ignore" is the right word for it. Max mentions Mona a few times, and MP 2 was mostly about tying up the loose ends related to Aesir and the power vacuum Woden's death left. The Max/Mona romance was more of an adrenaline-fueled whirlwind than any true emotional connection, as I recall. I can understand why, if Max [blackout]is ostensibly leaving New York behind forever,[/blackout] he'd want to visit his wife and child's grave more than pay tribute to his assassin rebound.

 

[Bruce Banner]

I don't quite agree that MP3 ignored MP2; Max makes a few references to Mona and stuff throughout the story. I just think that the Aesir/Max arc had drawn to a close, so MP3 is more of a personal story about Max himself.

^That is exactly how I feel about this one. I think Max from the first two games would have been picking up on the conspiracy a lot faster since he wasn't hitting the sauce as hard.

By the time he goes cold turkey, everything is a mess and he now sees it with sober eyes, playing catch up.

Also, Rockstar is giving us this wonderful edition to your wardrobe.t:
I already have a Payne style leather coat with a strap.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I think it's still a perfect place for him to be, emotionally. I mean, you don't just get over the death of your family like that. Even if you finally get around to a place where you might accept that they are gone, that still leaves a scar. If he accepted that at the end of MP 2, I would say MP 3 is about him trying to learn how to live with that himself. Without his family and his job to distract him, I would say MP 3 is about him figuring out what else he has. And the connection between him and the family he's protecting is obvious, he says as much... He just doesn't want to feel responsible for the deaths of anymore women.

Pretty much spot on IMO. It felt like a completely natural progression to me.

 

[Master Chief]

I think it's still a perfect place for him to be, emotionally. I mean, you don't just get over the death of your family like that. Even if you finally get around to a place where you might accept that they are gone, that still leaves a scar. If he accepted that at the end of MP 2, I would say MP 3 is about him trying to learn how to live with that himself. Without his family and his job to distract him, I would say MP 3 is about him figuring out what else he has. And the connection between him and the family he's protecting is obvious, he says as much... He just doesn't want to feel responsible for the deaths of anymore women.

Of course it's not going to go away but I mean, the dude sees a picture and goes out to get a bottle of whiskey which he polishes off before the night is over... lol, that's some serious regression. My perception was a little off coz in the prequel comic he's drinking mostly since he doesn't know what to do with himself, and he's still feeling bummed out about everyone that's died, from his mother right up to Mona. It's the self-loathing that threw me hahah.

^That is exactly how I feel about this one. I think Max from the first two games would have been picking up on the conspiracy a lot faster since he wasn't hitting the sauce as hard.

When's that shirt on sale?

Anyhoo yeah, the story here could have been done a little more cliche (rich dude seeks out Max to get daughter back) to acknowledge Max's catharsis but the presentation wouldn't have been as intriguing since he wouldn't be as impaired.

I don't think "ignore" is the right word for it. Max mentions Mona a few times, and MP 2 was mostly about tying up the loose ends related to Aesir and the power vacuum Woden's death left. The Max/Mona romance was more of an adrenaline-fueled whirlwind than any true emotional connection, as I recall. I can understand why, if Max [blackout]is ostensibly leaving New York behind forever,[/blackout] he'd want to visit his wife and child's grave more than pay tribute to his assassin rebound.

The only mention of Mona I remember is a name drop [blackout]when he's at his family's grave, which I thought was a nice scene.[/blackout] I'm not under any illusion that Max is supposed to be all about sunshine and rainbows now, it's just he's even worse off than he was when we last saw him.

The overarching plot in Max Payne 2 was still there but it was also about Max hitting rock bottom and coming out a new man. I could be romanticizing it coz I haven't played through in a while but that's how I remember it, and I guess that's why it felt weird to see him at such a low place in his life again.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I also saw Max Payne 2 as the struggle to move on from his tragedy in MP1, but that's not really what Max Payne 3 was about for me. MP3 was all about how Max doesn't really have a place in the world now that everything he cared about is gone: he lost everyone he cared about, he lost his job, and he lost his home. He's just this drifting, drunken mess searching for himself.

And, through the course of MP3's story, he finds new meaning and ultimately finds out what he's really made of. I thought it was a beautifully crafted character arc.


Also, regarding Mona, I noticed in the credits that she has a voice actress credited to her in MP3. So, what's the deal with that? Did I miss something? Because I didn't hear any snippets of her at any point in the game. DLC maybe?

 

[Master Chief]

I also saw Max Payne 2 as the struggle to move on from his tragedy in MP1, but that's not really what Max Payne 3 was about for me. MP3 was all about how Max doesn't really have a place in the world now that everything he cared about is gone: he lost everyone he cared about, he lost his job, and he lost his home. He's just this drifting, drunken mess searching for himself.

And, through the course of MP3's story, he finds new meaning and ultimately finds out what he's really made of. I thought it was a beautifully crafted character arc.

Also, regarding Mona, I noticed in the credits that she has a voice actress credited to her in MP3. So, what's the deal with that? Did I miss something? Because I didn't hear any snippets of her at any point in the game. DLC maybe?

Hahah yeah I see that now. It came across as if he were drinking because he was still torn up about his family since the opening cinematic put so much emphasis on the picture triggering his binge and that's what threw me for a loop. The prequel comic put it in perspective though.

Even with all my past judgements though, it was a really awesome moment to see him toss the bottle, shave his head and start on his warpath.

Spoiler

And because of how awesome that was it rattled me when Fabiana got popped.

As for Mona, she's a pre-order multiplayer character so that's why she's credited as a VA.

 

[craigdbfan]

^That is exactly how I feel about this one. I think Max from the first two games would have been picking up on the conspiracy a lot faster since he wasn't hitting the sauce as hard.

By the time he goes cold turkey, everything is a mess and he now sees it with sober eyes, playing catch up.

Also, Rockstar is giving us this wonderful edition to your wardrobe.t:
I already have a Payne style leather coat with a strap.

I got to get me one of those.

 

[Naked Shia]

Yeah, life meant nothing to him anymore, he was just waiting for death, because of his loss and his guilt. But the guilt he felt after failing to protect the family helped him to born again. That shaving part was really powerful.

 

[zeptron]

Also, regarding Mona, I noticed in the credits that she has a voice actress credited to her in MP3. So, what's the deal with that? Did I miss something? Because I didn't hear any snippets of her at any point in the game. DLC maybe?

Spoiler

Her voice was used in a voice over in a commercial in one of the TVs you can watch.

 

[Bruce Banner]

I got to get me one of those.

Yeah, the only reason why I'd have a Hawaiian shirt.
Rockstar said they are going to come out with more additions to the wardrobe.

In this discussion of Max Payne at the end of part 2 to his situation at part 3. In regards to his inability to move on, with nothing to move forward from, everything that he has, pretty much gone. Like he said "The way I see it there’s two types of people, those who spend their lives trying to build a future and those who spend their lives trying to rebuild the past. For too long I’d be stuck in between...

I feel like that line sums up his transition in the game.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I think if Mona lived after MP 2, he'd have been in a far different place from where he was in 3. Probably not still with Mona, mind you, because I still think their romance wasn't really that substantial, they were just caught up in the fact that they were the only ones each other could trust (kinda) in the midst of this massive s***storm. But having another full-fledged relationship after the loss of his family could've gotten him to the epiphany he has in 3 earlier. Instead, Mona was ripped away from him too and, although he may have been making progress with her at his side, relapsing without her was probably extremely easy. Life isn't really a straight line from one emotional state to the next, after all. People have all kinds of things informing the decisions they make; all it would've taken to tear down what Max built in 2 is a few more mistakes, and we know Max is pretty prone to making those.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I don't know. The whole point of the ending of MP2 is that Mona dies and Max still manages to let go of his self-loathing and guilt: his absolution comes from an internal epiphany rather than some transitory external condition (Mona being alive or dead for example).

From what I've gathered it sounds like where Max's character in MP3 starts makes more sense if you just ignore his development from MP2 which is a shame since I hold that game in high regard.

But a Max that has come to terms with the death of his family/lover and doesn't hate himself doesn't really lend itself to further sequels, so I get the reasoning behind regressing Max's character back to a post-MP1 state from the position of actually making a sequel to something that was more or less wrapped up.

 

[Balthus Dire]

But he's not really in the self-loathing state that he is in MP2 for the same reasons. I mean yeah, he's still upset about his family deep down, but honestly that's not hard to believe...his whole friggin family was murdered; I don't think that's something you'd ever truly and fully recover from.

But, he's not just moping about his family for the whole game, either. In fact, it's not like that at all. He's mostly moping because he has no purpose left in life. He just sits around feeling sorry for himself because he's a washed up, old boozehound with nothing to live for except the way of the gun. And then, as the story progresses, he discovers that there are things in life worth fighting for and emerges a new man as a result.

I think the character arc and progression is much different than his MP2 arc and it doesn't ignore or negate the ending to MP2 at all.

 

[Master Chief]

Upset Spidey is right though. The problem is you can hop from Max Payne to Max Payne 3 without missing a beat. I can get behind the idea that he succumbs to addiction but it's the quotes where he's saying he wishes he were dead that bugged me because I saw this self-pitying version of Max die by the end of the 2nd game. It completely ignores his growth with no explanation for why he slipped. The prequel comic does a decent job of establishing why he fell back into his old habits but even then it's like, he worked through that stuff already. It did make for an interesting narrative structure though so I can forgive it, it was just a little disappointing.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I think it's worth mentioning that this version of Max is much deeper that previous versions. Max was a little more cliche or 2 dimensional in past games. I mean, there's that bit where he hallucinates and basically comments on being in a video game.

Whereas this Max, even if he was being haunted by some of the same old demons, was so incredibly mature and deep for a video
Game character that it was entirely okay.

 

[Master Chief]

I liked the self-awareness coz it was clever. Max realizing he was in a game was when he was hopped up on V, and anytime he makes a reference in the 2nd game that could break the fourth wall it's done ironically.

In Max Payne he was a cliche, in Max Payne 2 I was surprised to see them actually explore his character alongside the conspiracy and in Max Payne 3 he was stepping back into cliche territory. It was more mature but the whole thing was by the book. Someone tormented by their past using their unique skills to redeem themselves, caught in a mess bigger than them but fighting to do the right thing... lol.

The big issue here I think is that we already had the perfect goodbye for the character. I'm a lil bummed out they couldn't find a way to continue it in a way that didn't leave me scratching my head but I am happy to see Max back and I hope to see him shoot-dodging his way to the top of a conspiracy again.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Totally agreed, I love all the self-referential and comedic moments in the first two games: stuff like Dick Justice or Max calling a hooker and being all grim and creeping her out and then awkwardly apologizing over it was nice moments of Remedy taking the piss out of itself.

 

[Master Chief]

Yup. I did like the sprinkles of dry humour in MP3 but it wasn't the same. I really wish Sam Lake would write a novel, but it's pretty awesome to have a writer of his calibre working on games.

 

[Master Chief]

Oh my... if this game gets a FPS mod...

Spoiler

 

[Balthus Dire]

Totally agreed, I love all the self-referential and comedic moments in the first two games: stuff like Dick Justice or Max calling a hooker and being all grim and creeping her out and then awkwardly apologizing over it was nice moments of Remedy taking the piss out of itself.

I admit that I really did miss Dick Justice and Lords and Ladies and Address Unknown. I didn't find the hooker part you were referring to funny, though...lol I thought it was actually a really deep and interesting/disturbing/revealing insight into Max's psyche.

Meh I can't see it from your perspective, boys. I loved MP1 and MP2 and I thought MP3 was a very natural and fantastic progression for his character. It's the most impersonal overall story, and yet somehow it manages to be the most personally touching story of all 3 games IMO. I totally buy Max as a washed up painkiller junkie after the first 2 games, and if you guys don't...that's your problem! lol

 

[Master Chief]

I'm playing through the trilogy again so I'll see if it was just my memory glorifying the past.

It's not so much that Max is back to moping around though, it's just that they made it look like he was still drowning out the pain of losing his family, which is what I mean when it feels like they pretended the 2nd game never happened. He was really back to boozin' and poppin' a decade later because he didn't know what to do with himself or he had to deal with being surrounded by obnoxious people and s**tty music. That's in line with his character, but all this talk about being angry about the world and throwing pictures of his family at the wall hahah, that's what was confusing as hell.

Either ways, Max getting shot in the head and Max shaving his head are equally awesome moments for the character.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Regarding his drunken fits at his hotel room and the throwing the family picture, etc., he only really gets like that in those drunken moments. It's almost like that's truly his rock bottom when he's alone and has nothing to do but get totally sloshed and pop painkillers, so in those low moments he gets emotional about his life and about his family.

Other than that, I don't think there are any moments throughout the main narrative where he gets upset about his family. He references them, but it's not the main demon he's struggling with anymore.

 

[Master Chief]

That's what they made it look like though.

 

[Balthus Dire]

lol but it didn't look like that to me.....

 

[Master Chief]

Hahah just another cross I have to bear.