MCU's second "arc"

[MessiahDecoy123]

Right now Doom and Kang are not options.

Just go with the High Evolutionary.

Disney should buy Fantastic Four for a couple hundred million.

Opens things up a bit and no way Fox profits that much from FF in the next 10 years.

 

[Panacea]

Fox making hundreds of millions of dollars from the Fantastic Four property over the span of a decade doesn't seem that far-fetched to me at all. In fact bar another disaster it's kinda what you should expect to happen.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Fox making hundreds of millions of dollars from the Fantastic Four property over the span of a decade doesn't seem that far-fetched to me at all. In fact bar another disaster it's kinda what you should expect to happen.

Fox only gets half the WW box office revenue then you have to subtract the budget and marketing.

Even if they knock it out of the park they would have to worry about franchise fatigue and franchise baggage.

Sony had all these problems with their second Spider-man reboot but Marvel Studios bailed them out.

Anyway, Fox can't do nearly 1/10th of what Marvel Studios could do with the Fantastic Four characters and rogue gallery.

It pisses me off when I think about how the Fantastic Four and a dozen other cool characters in that universe missed out on Civil War and Infinity War.

Why? Cause Fox was too busy shooting explosive diarrhea all over the property.

They should lose the rights for this huge wasted opportunity alone.

 

[Mjölnir]

Sony had those problems but was still making quite a bit of money on their Spidey movies. They just noticed the downward trend and realized that they would soon start to lose money and made the smart choice to turn that around.

Fox is already losing big money on FF at the BO, but somehow are still dead set on going about it the same way as before.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fox making hundreds of millions of dollars from the Fantastic Four property over the span of a decade doesn't seem that far-fetched to me at all. In fact bar another disaster it's kinda what you should expect to happen.

A disaster is guaranteed. Nobody wants it. Nobody is going to pay to see it.

A company can't make a product their customers don't want and just magically make money selling it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fox only gets half the WW box office revenue then you have to subtract the budget and marketing.

Even if they knock it out of the park they would have to worry about franchise fatigue and franchise baggage.

Sony had all these problems with their second Spider-man reboot but Marvel Studios bailed them out.

Anyway, Fox can't do nearly 1/10th of what Marvel Studios could do with the Fantastic Four characters and rogue gallery.

It pisses me off when I think about how the Fantastic Four and a dozen other cool characters in that universe missed out on Civil War and Infinity War.

Why? Cause Fox was too busy shooting explosive diarrhea all over the property.

They should lose the rights for this huge wasted opportunity alone.

Just for s***s and giggles, let's take a real look at the numbers.

If we consider an optimistic 45% of WW box office and a conservative $25 million marketing budget, here's what the previous three films made:


FF 2005: $100 million production budget plus $25 million marketing = $125 million spent.

$331 million WWBO X 0.45 = $149 million revenue

$149 million - $125 million = $24 million profit



ROTSS: $130 million production budget plus $25 million marketing = $155 million spent.

$289 million WWBO X 0.45 = $130 million

$130 million - $155 million = $25 million loss



Fant4stic: $120 million production budget plus $25 million marketing = $145 million spent.

$168 million WWBO X 0.45 = $76 million

$76 million - $145 million = $69 million loss



So over three films and 12 years, with an audience that was much more receptive to FF films than they are right now, Fox lost something in the ballpark of $70 million total.


Then how much does Marvel get? Something like 5% of the gross box office I think I heard at one point. That would be approximately $39 million which would take Fox's loss to $109 million.


Granted they've probably made some money back on home video, but without any merchandising, it's a near certainty that over the past 12 years Fantastic Four has lost them money.

So how are they going to magically turn it around and start making money now? At this point, the fans hate them. The one thing that makes the FF more valuable than The Dazzler, for example is that FF has a larger fan-base.

But that fan-base has zero interest in seeing another FF film from Fox, so the Dazzler would have a better chance of making money than the FF.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Lmao, well done.

 

[Zarex]

Well done Willie, though I think you were quite kind in regards to those marketing budgets. Those FF BO results probably look even worse than you have presented.

Given the BO history, high cost, reboot risk and the FFINO hangover, FOX is going to have to eat a 8 figure loss if it tries to put another installment in theaters. That is guar-an-teed. Why they would do that as opposed to Dazzler: Origins or literally anything other movie, Marvel or otherwise, makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Also most businesses would much rather earn 200 m in a single day than slowly earn that money over the next 10 or 20 years.

It's way more valuable in that single day.

 

[GoblinScrier]

I always wanted Phases 4 - 6 to be the lead up to Secret Wars (could be 2015 version and this is assuming the F4 rights are back)

Phase 4 --Brings Doom to the forefront as THE ultimate villain

Phase 5--The heralds of Galactus culminating in his arrival

Phase 6--a man reborn as a god...Doom becomes God Emperor as the universe is reborn Battleworld

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I always wanted Phases 4 - 6 to be the lead up to Secret Wars (could be 2015 version and this is assuming the F4 rights are back)

Phase 4 --Brings Doom to the forefront as THE ultimate villain

Phase 5--The heralds of Galactus culminating in his arrival

Phase 6--a man reborn as a god...Doom becomes God Emperor as the universe is reborn Battleworld

Marvel really, really NEEDS to get Doom into the MCU. If they can't get the full FF rights, I hope they can at least get Doom somehow.

 

[DrCosmic]

Masters of Evil would be awesome, or the Thunderbolts.

But I think they wouldn't be called the Masters of Evil. You can't have bad guys in an MCU movie calling themselves the Masters of Evil.

...but what if you could!

I still think you guys are barking up the wrong tree with FF villains for the Avengers. Ultron is a great villain in comics, as is Red Skull. Doesn't help anything for the MCU, which is best served by original villains using comic villains names, something you want Doom NOT to be.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

...but what if you could!

I still think you guys are barking up the wrong tree with FF villains for the Avengers. Ultron is a great villain in comics, as is Red Skull. Doesn't help anything for the MCU, which is best served by original villains using comic villains names, something you want Doom NOT to be.

But Kang is part of the FF rights too.

You cannot do an Avengers movie series without Kang.

 

[NealKenneth]

Assuming Fiege can't get his hands on the FF, I think the best path forward would be Norman Osborn. He's been overcooked in the comics to the point that he basically feels like off-brand Doctor Doom...but in a cinematic universe that can't use Doctor Doom, why not bring him in?

Start him off as a background character in the Spidey films, culminating in an assault on Asgard for an Avengers phase-ending blowout.

 

[Boom]

Assuming a best-case scenario and Marvel gets the Fantastic Four rights back, then Kang the Conqueror and/or Dr. Doom.

If they don't get FF back, then I'd go with Ultron or Mephisto.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Assuming a best-case scenario and Marvel gets the Fantastic Four rights back, then Kang the Conqueror and/or Dr. Doom.

If they don't get FF back, then I'd go with Ultron or Mephisto.

There was a document out a while back that indicated Mephisto is also part of FF.

 

[Boom]

There was a document out a while back that indicated Mephisto is also part of FF.

Wow. So just to be clear, these characters are currently off the table:

Annihilus
Dr. Doom
Galactus
Kang the Conqueror
Mephisto

And considering that the Marvel/Sony deal seems to be on a "play it by ear" basis after Homecoming 2, I'm not sure about Norman Osborn as the Arc Two antagonist, because Sony pulling out of the arrangement would effectively **** everything up.

That's quite a few major players right there. Granted, my knowledge of Marvel Comics isn't all that great, but who's really left outside of Ultron, Zemo and the Masters of Evil, and Dormammu that could pose a large-scale threat? Honest question.

Looking at that list, it might almost be worth Marvel/Disney reaching out to Fox just to see what their asking price is for the FF rights. It's not just about the Four themselves. They've got their hands on some serious heavy-hitter villains. Hell, getting Dr. Doom back alone changes the game completely.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Wow. So just to be clear, these characters are currently off the table:

Annihilus
Dr. Doom
Galactus
Kang the Conqueror
Mephisto

I think that covers the major villains. And then there are characters like Silver Surfer, Air-Walker, Firelord, Terrax, Molecule Man, Quasimodo, Moleman, Agatha Harkness, Thundra etc., etc. etc., that aren't as important as the key villains above, but still characters the MCU could definitely use.

Here's the list if you have some free time: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/0...ers-marvel-comics-restricted-licensing-x-men/

And I think the value of these characters to Marvel is a double edged sword. I think Marvel is more interested than they might let on in getting those characters, but Fox knows that and will try to get something substantial for them.

 

[Spiderine]

There was a document out a while back that indicated Mephisto is also part of FF.

I always thought that dude in Ghostrider was supposed to be mephisto.

 

[Venom 1988]

I always thought that dude in Ghostrider was supposed to be mephisto.

Yeah Peter Fonda played Mephisto in the 1st Ghost Rider. How would Fox have the rights to him?

 

[DrCosmic]

But Kang is part of the FF rights too.

You cannot do an Avengers movie series without Kang.

...but what if you could?

We've got Graviton, Count Nefaria, Super-Adaptoid and The Hood, all of whom are much better suited for Marvel's INO approach along the lines of Ego, Zemo, Vulture, Alexander Pierce and probably Hela.

If you're just married to the idea of doing a huge time travel story, you've got Korvac, who gains that power among many others, and wouldn't you know it, that's a character that is much more likely to have grounded dynamic relationships with the heroes than Kang.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I always thought that dude in Ghostrider was supposed to be mephisto.

Yeah Peter Fonda played Mephisto in the 1st Ghost Rider. How would Fox have the rights to him?

He was Mephistopheles, not Mephisto. There may not seem a difference, but Mephistopheles is a known name for a Demon (or in many cases Satan himself) that predated Marvel comics while Mephisto is a Marvel character.

Fox couldn't prevent Sony from using Mephistopheles any more than they could prevent any of the 100's of other films and TV shows out there from using variations of Satan.

If Sony had called him Mephisto, Fox probably would have a legal case (though they may have not chosen to pursue it).

 

[Venom 1988]

He was Mephistopheles, not Mephisto. There may not seem a difference, but Mephistopheles is a known name for a Demon (or in many cases Satan himself) that predated Marvel comics while Mephisto is a Marvel character.

Fox couldn't prevent Sony from using Mephistopheles any more than they could prevent any of the 100's of other films and TV shows out there from using variations of Satan.

If Sony had called him Mephisto, Fox probably would have a legal case (though they may have not chosen to pursue it).

Oh I know the difference but I guess I didn't remember he was called that in the movie. But to be fair I only saw it once and that was like 10 years ago

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

...but what if you could?

We've got Graviton, Count Nefaria, Super-Adaptoid and The Hood, all of whom are much better suited for Marvel's INO approach along the lines of Ego, Zemo, Vulture, Alexander Pierce and probably Hela.

If you're just married to the idea of doing a huge time travel story, you've got Korvac, who gains that power among many others, and wouldn't you know it, that's a character that is much more likely to have grounded dynamic relationships with the heroes than Kang.

I don't like Kang just for his powers. I really like his backstory, motives, and story arc.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Oh I know the difference but I guess I didn't remember he was called that in the movie. But to be fair I only saw it once and that was like 10 years ago

I wouldn't have known either, but the topic has come up before... and then there's IMDB.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259324/