Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread

[DocLathropBrown]

I find his performance in Returns to be the more electrifying of the two. It took everything fantastic about his performance from the first film and upped the ante, the challenge, which made his reactions to it all even more staggering.

Acting is truly reacting. With more extreme circumstances, the great actor gives an even better performance.

Batman being swollowed by the darkness and being more sadistic was simply incredible. Keaton was so totally consumed by the darkness, you almost get a sense that his war with the Penguin is not to save the city, but to take back what was his. With the Penguin replacing him in the public eye, he almost becomes jealous. When the Penguin accuses him of being jealous in the end, he actually hit the nail on the head.

His scenes with Pfeiffer? Unparalleled. Bale and his eventual Catwoman cannot even hope to come close. Keaton's Wayne and Batman are so enotionally intense because Keaton could relate. Michael Keaton brought a lot of himself into his Batman. He really didn't have to act too hard, it all came naturally to him. He has a bit of neuroticism in him. Notice in the third act, when he's so willing to lay everything on the line for Selina, to save her and himself at the same time, that he unmasks himself in front of Schrek. His identity doesn't matter at that point. He cannot continue living peacefully without Selina, he'll deal with Schrek later.

That is a Batman that is psychologically realistic and relateable to people like me. And in the very end, when he knows Selina lives but they can never be one? He closes himself back up inside. Once again putting forth that calm, collected facade he has as Batman. Even when all the while, he's burning up inside, adrift without a certain resolution. Just like we were at the end of BR. And in some ways, we're still waiting for Keaton's Wayne to heal his wounds.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

But my favourite scene in which he uses his eye is when he remembers the death of his parents. He didn't need any dialogue, he totally showed us his pain with his eyes. One of the most stunning subtle scenes ever done by an actor, it gives me the chills to this day...

You're so right. His eyes had a hardened, tough look to them. But as he began to reminisce and the memories came back to him, his eyes totally start to soften.... and you can see the orphan inside that grew up a sad and embittered man. Same look he has when he witnesses the violence at City Hall and looks at Vicki. He recognizes Naiper, but at the same time, the shocking public display of violence brings him right back to that night years ago, and the scared youngster comes back.

As Kim Basinger said of Keaton's performance: "I just saw something about him that.... I could see him as an orphaned child."

 

[Lead Cenobite]

lol, I remember seeing that pic of Burton directing Keaton and Pfeiffer in costume in a magazine when I was little. XD I had no idea it was Burton and had honestly never seen behind the scenes pics before. I thought it was some deleted scene.

 

[El Payaso]

You're so right. His eyes had a hardened, tough look to them. But as he began to reminisce and the memories came back to him, his eyes totally start to soften.... and you can see the orphan inside that grew up a sad and embittered man. Same look he has when he witnesses the violence at City Hall and looks at Vicki. He recognizes Naiper, but at the same time, the shocking public display of violence brings him right back to that night years ago, and the scared youngster comes back.

As Kim Basinger said of Keaton's performance: "I just saw something about him that.... I could see him as an orphaned child."

No verbal explanations about it. It was all in the eyes.

 

[Bruce_Wayne29]

I find his performance in Returns to be the more electrifying of the two. It took everything fantastic about his performance from the first film and upped the ante, the challenge, which made his reactions to it all even more staggering.

Acting is truly reacting. With more extreme circumstances, the great actor gives an even better performance.

His scenes with Pfeiffer? Unparalleled. Bale and his eventual Catwoman cannot even hope to come close. Keaton's Wayne and Batman are so enotionally intense because Keaton could relate. Michael Keaton brought a lot of himself into his Batman. He really didn't have to act too hard, it all came naturally to him. He has a bit of neuroticism in him. Notice in the third act, when he's so willing to lay everything on the line for Selina, to save her and himself at the same time, that he unmasks himself in front of Schrek. His identity doesn't matter at that point. He cannot continue living peacefully without Selina, he'll deal with Schrek later.

That is a Batman that is psychologically realistic and relateable to people like me. And in the very end, when he knows Selina lives but they can never be one? He closes himself back up inside. Once again putting forth that calm, collected facade he has as Batman. Even when all the while, he's burning up inside, adrift without a certain resolution. Just like we were at the end of BR. And in some ways, we're still waiting for Keaton's Wayne to heal his wounds.

Stunning post. I agree with everything.
Keaton himself said years after doing Returns that he truly believes Selina was Bruce's true soul mate and that's why so much effort was put in the unmasking scene. It's one of my favourite scenes in movies, again one that gives me chills. It's the ultimate proof of love when he takes his mask off and Pfeiffer's delivery in the following line is equally brilliant when she says (emotionally torn apart) she would love to live forever in his castle just like in a fairy tale but she just can't.
And one wonders (following your and mine line of thought that Keaton brought himself into his Batman and Bruce Wayne - Keaton also feels a bit like an outsider in today's conformist world in which little ppl is driven by challenge and mostly by money) since we know him and Michelle fell in love and dated from a brief period, how much of them personally was in that scene. I wonder if Keaton too felt Michelle was his soulmate but it just wasn't meant to be...

 

[Black Mamba]

As for the interview... down to earth kind of guy. Love that. Always been a Michael Keaton fan. He seems to have been as dissapointed in Batman Returns, as the rest of us. Batman 1989 truly was the film that set up the most potential. B89 was such a hit, because it was such a powerful movie. Jack Nicholson carried it, and Keaton delivered an AWESOME performance as Batman. The B89 world was so much richer, and more realistic than Batman Returns, yet at the same time more frightening. They gave Burton just too much freedom to do his own thing. B89 nailed the essence of the character. Such a great flick. So exciting, and thrilling to watch. That movie sucks you in, as a viewer.

 

[Black Mamba]

His scenes with Pfeiffer? Unparalleled. Bale and his eventual Catwoman cannot even hope to come close.

First of all, what does Bale have to do with any of this? Keaton fans still aren't secure enough in their favorite, that they feel the need to mention Christian Bale and/or discredit him, all the time. Can't you simply talk about Keaton's performance? lol

Not to mention the comment is entirely too pre-mature. Are you a fortune teller? Do you know something we all don't? Have you already seen all future sequels in the Chris Nolan Batman saga? Exactly, so please in those regards ... keep your mouth shut. No one knows what Bale will do with is "eventual Catwoman" ... he very well could parallel the performing duo of Keaton and Pfeiffer. We don't know, until we know. Hell, for most, his performance as the main man carrying his Batman film, his performance is ranked "at" or above that of Keaton's performance.

So when you talk about Keaton, talk about him on his own merits. Don't feel threatned by a new actor, who many project to be the ideal Batman / Bruce Wayne. Just let it ride. Keaton was that dude. And as for the rest of your post ... very well stated.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

As for the interview... down to earth kind of guy. Love that. Always been a Michael Keaton fan. He seems to have been as dissapointed in Batman Returns, as the rest of us. Batman 1989 truly was the film that set up the most potential. B89 was such a hit, because it was such a powerful movie. Jack Nicholson carried it, and Keaton delivered an AWESOME performance as Batman. The B89 world was so much richer, and more realistic than Batman Returns, yet at the same time more frightening. They gave Burton just too much freedom to do his own thing. B89 nailed the essence of the character. Such a great flick. So exciting, and thrilling to watch. That movie sucks you in, as a viewer.

Don't speak for anyone but yourself, if you please. I love Returns. It's even better than B89. And you weren't reading close enough. He was only slightly disappointed in BR. If he disliked it going in, he wouldn't have done it. He could have only been dissappointed with the reaction to it.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

First of all, what does Bale have to do with any of this? Keaton fans still aren't secure enough in their favorite, that they feel the need to mention Christian Bale and/or discredit him, all the time. Can't you simply talk about Keaton's performance? lol

Not to mention the comment is entirely too pre-mature. Are you a fortune teller? Do you know something we all don't? Have you already seen all future sequels in the Chris Nolan Batman saga? Exactly, so please in those regards ... keep your mouth shut. No one knows what Bale will do with is "eventual Catwoman" ... he very well could parallel the performing duo of Keaton and Pfeiffer. We don't know, until we know. Hell, for most, his performance as the main man carrying his Batman film, his performance is ranked "at" or above that of Keaton's performance.

So when you talk about Keaton, talk about him on his own merits. Don't feel threatned by a new actor, who many project to be the ideal Batman / Bruce Wayne. Just let it ride. Keaton was that dude. And as for the rest of your post ... very well stated.

I get the distinct feeling that you're a Burton-basher in disguise.

If you feel threatened by my opinion, by all means, YOU keep your mouth shut. I'm not insulting people here, and not dogging Bale, who is a fine actor but not my personal choice, so seeing as you have no grounds to tell me to shut it, I'd appreciate it if you'd mind your own business. I'm more than secure enough in Keaton's prowess to knock Nolan's franchise.

I've been around and around on this forum for years, kiddo. I've said the words you told me to a thousand others during my time here. The last thing I need is advice from someone who doesn't know me or my history here.

 

[Black Mamba]

Don't speak for anyone but yourself

I am speaking mainly for myself, and also for the mainstream audiences that showed a measurable discomfort with the movie. Let alone the hard core fans of the character who felt they were left stray from not only the source material, but even from the original movie. Felt like a back hand to the fan base. But that is of course, my perception of it all.

He was only slightly disappointed in BR.

Slightyl dissapointed or dissapointed, you're now arguing semantics. Either way, he was dissapointed with the outcome. And from this interview, it is obvious B89 was his favorite Batman film. He goes into nothing but positive raves when speaking of it. So, his opinions on both films are pretty clear.

He could have only been dissappointed with the reaction to it.

Or he could've actually been dissapointed with the movie, and how it came out. Either way, he doesn't mention Returns being as cool to him, or as liked as B89. Because, simply, it wasn't. Returns wasn't near as fun. For as deep as it tries to get, it still isn't a very serious presentation of the character as their is sly humerous and tongue in cheek elements to its presentation. There is a reason audiences didn't respond well to it.

But, we all have our preferences...

 

[Cryogenic]

Great interview, great pictures.

Keaton was a fantastic Batman.

 

[EXCELSIOR]

DocLathropBrown & Black Mamba...
Lets cool it down please!

 

[El Payaso]

DockLath, once I just stopped replying to that kind of people. If you don't feed them, the don't keep coming for more. And I enjoy more your great comments anyway.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

DockLath, once I just stopped replying to that kind of people. If you don't feed them, the don't keep coming for more. And I enjoy more your great comments anyway.

You're right, I don't know what came over me. I'd like to think I have better sense than that!

 

[DocLathropBrown]

This sad guy is really boring with that troll stuff over and over and over again.

Lennon, I'd appreciate you coming into a thread of mine to add something to it, not to tell me what a yutz I am. That practically consitutes spam. Please take your fight with Payaso to the PMs.

Let's get one thing straight: your hypocracy knows no bounds, apparantly. You get to bash Burton/Keaton as much as you want in your praise of the Nolan franchise, but I can't do the opposite? I'll say what I wish and you can't stop me. And consider that what I gave was HARDLY a biting criticism of Bale/Nolan. You don't even KNOW what I really want to say about Begins.

And you nailed probably the #1 thing I dislike about Nolan. You said "we don't even know if Catwoman will be in one of Nolan's films" (or words to that effect). We shouldn't have to guess. All of the villains should be equal candidates. None should be considered "unuseable" and the fact that Nolan says some are and most fans agree with him angers me to no end. Catwoman is one of my favorite villains, the idea that she may not make it to the screen again drives me insane.

Nolan is the WRONG guy to be making Batman films. Was Burton the right guy? I can't really say. At least he wasn't afraid of his Batman films having a fantasy element in them, that way, we could get great villains like Clayface, the real Scarecrow, Catwoman, maybe even Dr. Phosphorus?

And Lennon, you're right. I am a Keaton fanboy. But that doesn't mean I'm unreasonable, like you'd like to believe. Back when BB came out, I was one of the only few people here that was praising both the Burton and Nolan efforts. Only later did I realize how much I disliked BB. If anyone's the unreasoning fanboy here that won't listen to the other side, it's you.

Now I've said my piece. Can we please get back on topic?

 

[Two-Face]

Micheal Keaton and Tim Burton made great Batman films which I love but Nolan & Bale are the people who made great Batman movie and took Batman to his dark roots after that ****ty 1995/97 movies...

Keaton was great Batman.

 

[House_of_El]

 

[mister Lennon]

Lennon, I'd appreciate you coming into a thread of mine to add something to it, not to tell me what a yutz I am. That practically consitutes spam. Please take your fight with Payaso to the PMs.

Let's get one thing straight: your hypocracy knows no bounds, apparantly. You get to bash Burton/Keaton as much as you want in your praise of the Nolan franchise, but I can't do the opposite? I'll say what I wish and you can't stop me. And consider that what I gave was HARDLY a biting criticism of Bale/Nolan. You don't even KNOW what I really want to say about Begins.

And you nailed probably the #1 thing I dislike about Nolan. You said "we don't even know if Catwoman will be in one of Nolan's films" (or words to that effect). We shouldn't have to guess. All of the villains should be equal candidates. None should be considered "unuseable" and the fact that Nolan says some are and most fans agree with him angers me to no end. Catwoman is one of my favorite villains, the idea that she may not make it to the screen again drives me insane.

Nolan is the WRONG guy to be making Batman films. Was Burton the right guy? I can't really say. At least he wasn't afraid of his Batman films having a fantasy element in them, that way, we could get great villains like Clayface, the real Scarecrow, Catwoman, maybe even Dr. Phosphorus?

And Lennon, you're right. I am a Keaton fanboy. But that doesn't mean I'm unreasonable, like you'd like to believe. Back when BB came out, I was one of the only few people here that was praising both the Burton and Nolan efforts. Only later did I realize how much I disliked BB. If anyone's the unreasoning fanboy here that won't listen to the other side, it's you.

Now I've said my piece. Can we please get back on topic?

First of all, i dont know who on hell erased my posts, i wasnt insulting anyone, only posting my opinion. And i think that this opinion wasnt worse than the ones that the person who erased those ones.


Second of all, Doc, i like your way of writting, you post several interesting things and i like your style ,except some some fanboysm things and several things that i doesnt agree. But you fall several times in an extreme fanboysm that bothers to me.

Dont post words on my mouth. When i critize the Burton/ keaton franchise, i say it in a post comparing both franchises, not in a post about michael keaton or in a post about chris bale. In a post praising chris bale or michael keaton or chris nolan or tim burton, i think that we should talk about the good things of these people, but in a post comparing them, yeah, i find logical the critizment to one part or the another part. In your post praising keaton, i find pretty ilogical and pretty annoying critize christian bale or chris nolan when you are talking about the good things in the burton and keaton movies, and more with things like:" bale wont do it in his enterly life" or things like that, and that is a thing that i found stupid and ilogical and pure fanboysm. We dont know what Bale could do in the future.

I wont stop you on talking about it and in this way, but one thing is sure, you and anybody cant stop me on critizing this way of thinking and posting for sure.

About the catwoman issue, it really doesnt matter if catwoman isnt in the nolan franchise. For me, Nolan is the right person for this kind of batman, for this vision of batman, with a more realistic tone. And i find it pretty admirable. Its good for a superhero movie see some kind of realism and do something different than the previous superhero movies or batman movies. And if catwoman isnt in those movies, no problem for me meanwhile there are another great villains and stories to tell us, and they are so good as batman begins was.

 

[mister Lennon]

Two things more. You are critzing me for discussing with el payaso in this thread in stead on privates, but you did the same with black mamba. Who is the hypocrital here?

And this particular sentece by you its very curious:" the real scarecrow". So , you are saying that the scarecrow of batman begins wasnt the real scarecrow than he is in the comics. Was the penguin in batman returns the real penguin? was Keaton bruce wayne the real bruce wayne? was jack joker the real joker? See all the things, not only what you want to see.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Two things more. You are critzing me for discussing with el payaso in this thread in stead on privates, but you did the same with black mamba. Who is the hypocrital here?

And this particular sentece by you its very curious:" the real scarecrow". So , you are saying that the scarecrow of batman begins wasnt the real scarecrow than he is in the comics. Was the penguin in batman returns the real penguin? was Keaton bruce wayne the real bruce wayne? was jack joker the real joker? See all the things, not only what you want to see.

If you'll notice above, I admitted my mistake in engaging the guy. We all have our moments of weakness.

And my "real Scarecrow" comment was meant in reguards to his costume, really. Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow was one of the best things of Begins, but with Nolan's "It has to be real" policy, we'll never see Crane in the proper scarecrow outfit, which really ticks me off. Although I would have prefurred that the chracter carried the film as it's sole villain and not a hired goon for Ra's, even if Liam's Ra's was enough to make me faint from the awesomeness.

As for the comparisons of the other characters, while Burton tweaked the characters to his own sensibilities (JUST as Nolan has, unfortunately), I found the way he altered them happened to agree with me. In truth, the chracter should NOT be tweaked very far. The Joker notwithstanding (aside from Jack's age and the parents/killer thing, he was perfect).

I'll give you a tip for the future, Lennon: just because I don't speak well of the other side every time I post, doesn't mean I don't recognize the indisputable good qualities that all productions do indeed have, so I AM seeing all of the things, just not commenting on all of them like some anal-retentive nerd who's afraid of offending people.

 

[mister Lennon]

Did you know what? I would preffer that the scarecrow in the movie should be closer to the one in the comics, witht the hat and the costume and all, but i liked a lot the Nolan's version.

Ok, the Burton version of the characters is more in your style you liked it more, perfectly valid and right. I preffer Nolan version. It was for me more fresh and at the same time more faithful with the general batman mithos.

In your last coments,if you are in that way, great. Try to show in more chances. For my part, i liked Nolan version and i didnt like Burton version or Schumacher version. Well, i didnt disliked all the things( michael gough as alfred, michelle pfeiffer's catwoman, art design, gotham city, dark atmosphere, batcave, batmobile, batwing and batboat, batgadgets, etc).

Did you see? In a mature and correct way, respecting all the people's point of views and talking in a propper way, we can have a free and sane discussion about those movies and stuff. Without bashing one thing to pray the other, without calling troll to the people who is critizing the things that you like, etc.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Did you see? In a mature and correct way, respecting all the people's point of views and talking in a propper way, we can have a free and sane discussion about those movies and stuff. Without bashing one thing to pray the other, without calling troll to the people who is critizing the things that you like, etc.

Hey, pal. I never had to be told this. I'm only ever confrontational with you when you get beligerent and unfairly bash the Burton films and others' opinions for prefurring the Burton material, which you are guilty of. In the past, you've openly ridiculed people who prefur the Burton material as if we're diseased, stupid, or just don't know better. And then, throwing around the tired, old lies about Michael Keaton, and not buging on them in the face of evidence to the contrary.

But hey, I'm a good guy unless provoked. I'm more than willing for bygones to be bygones.

 

[mister Lennon]

Pal, you have totally break the way that you did in you last topic with this new one. Because in this new one, you have only poste LIES about me. Those gratuite statments about me are totally false and ridicules. I havent never ridiculed people for not liking the nolan movies or for liking the burton movies and i havent never posted any lie about michael keaton, only posted my opinion about him and his performance in the batman movies. Those are simply and pure LIES, beasides of a total ridicule and absurd argument. And if you say the oppossitte, proof it.

I thought that you have turned in a more reasonable way, but with your last post full of lies and garbage, you are an idiot posting that bull****. So Simple like that.

 

[Black Mamba]

Moment of weakness? I called you out on b.s. That's it, plain and simple. I didn't make one negative comment about any movies, favorite version of the character, etc.

You seem to be able to give negative comments, but sure as hell can't take them. You use your argument of "your history" as a backdrop for your argument with me, as if that makes yours more legit than mine (it doesn't)...

You bashed Batman Begins, subtely or not, discredited the fine actors and directional staff behind it, in order to fit your own agenda. I was calling you out on your b.s., and said get back to talking about the merits at hand, aka Michael Keaton. And told you not to have to feel so threatned, as to bring him up in a thread that has nothing to do with that version of the character and/or mythos.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Pal, you have totally break the way that you did in you last topic with this new one. Because in this new one, you have only poste LIES about me. Those gratuite statments about me are totally false and ridicules. I havent never ridiculed people for not liking the nolan movies or for liking the burton movies and i havent never posted any lie about michael keaton, only posted my opinion about him and his performance in the batman movies. Those are simply and pure LIES, beasides of a total ridicule and absurd argument. And if you say the oppossitte, proof it.

I thought that you have turned in a more reasonable way, but with your last post full of lies and garbage, you are an idiot posting that bull****. So Simple like that.

I don't have to prove it, I could, but I won't. I'm tired of going around with you, Lennon. I didn't mean to insinuate that you were telling lies about Keaton, but you were perpetuating the anti-Keaton things that are lies, such as him being bald, fat, and a midget. Remember that thread where we went over this?

And Lennon, drop your pride for a minute, you have CONSTANTLY treated Burtonites like we're stupid because we like the "inferior" adaptations.