Michael Moore says "Video game/Violence link is nothing but panic"...

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

Any chance I could see that thesis?
Sounds very interesting.

It was, but I have a religeous tendancy to burn/delete any finished+marked work when i'm done (unless its for my portfolio), it helps my Chi...


BTW I highly recommend Trigger Happy, by Steven Poole. There is only one chapter dedicated to violence, but he makes some good points.

I also remember a quote from Edge UK mag that I used:

"Don't ban the drug, watch for the overdose..."



IMO, if you're f****d up, you're f****d up. All games can do is make you f**k up more creatively.



Also the Columbine kids were fans of the Matrix, and Marylin Manson, why wern't any of those attributed to the shootings?

 

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

Also, I actively challenge anyone here to find an experiment, or come up with a theory that I can't find a gaping hole in regarding Videogame violence. There is almost always a variable not taken into account.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Also the Columbine kids were fans of the Matrix, and Marylin Manson, why wern't any of those attributed to the shootings?

Both of those things were attributed to the shootings, I think they were attributed even before video games were given as a reason.

Video Games are an easy target to blame horrible actions on. I and many of my friends have played video games our entire lives and have lived fairly violent lives. In fact, the only people I know that own guns are the ones that didn't really play video games. I've never felt the need to jump on a turtle, explore labyrinths for mystical power triangles, join a demolition derby in an ice cream truck, carjack someone, rip another persons head and spine out or reinact a World War 2 battle, but these are all things I've had a great time doing in Video Games.

 

[Addendum]

They were more into KMFDM and Rammstein

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Watching the news today, the government has just started a new investigation into the video game industry. Says the ESRB isn't rating the games well enough. They had an interview with some guy from Alaska that shoot up his school back in the '90s, saying he was inspired to do it because of video games, nice excuse for being a moron.

 

[The Overlord]

Michael Moore is wrong.

It's well known that the more you practice something, the more likely that you will react as you have practiced. It's why sports and the military constantly have their people run drills.

I thought conservatives believed in personal responsibility and now your saying big bad video games make people violent, so its not their fault. You just love contradictions and logical fallacies, don't you?

 

[Addendum]

The ESRB can not be held liable because some people lack the brain capacity to flip a box over and read the reasoning for the rating.

...looks at my copy of San Andreas which I bought October '05...

Rated "M"- Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs.

If anyone should be held liable, it should be the elementary school teachers for passing these stupid parents when they were kids

 

[War Lord]

I thought conservatives believed in personal responsibility and now your saying big bad video games make people violent, so its not their fault. You just love contradictions and logical fallacies, don't you?

You humanists really like to simplify things, don't you?

Whatever a person does, he's responsible no matter what.

However, nobody forces anybody to pick up or create habits that can further infuence their behaviour in ways that they never considered. For example, if I make a habit of porn and as a result of that habit, I am influenced into getting into child pornography and eventually choose to rape a child, nobody forced me to get into porn in the first place.

Same thing with violence, even if the video game violence helped change my attitude towards life and influenced me to take a more violent attitude in life and eventually, because of my attitude, I do something horribly violent. I'm still responsible for that violence, because nobody but me choose to play certain video games.

As I said before, even if you came from an environment that influenced your behaviour badly, you're still responsible for what you do.

I've personally stayed away from excessively violent games, like games that show blood, because I believe we are influenced by what we choose to do.

 

[The Overlord]

You humanists really like to simplify things, don't you?

Whatever a person does, he's responsible no matter what.

However, nobody forces anybody to pick up or create habits that can further infuence their behaviour in ways that they never considered. For example, if I make a habit of porn and as a result of that habit, I am influenced into getting into child pornography and eventually choose to rape a child, nobody forced me to get into porn in the first place.

Same thing with violence, even if the video game violence helped change my attitude towards life and influenced me to take a more violent attitude in life and eventually, because of my attitude, I do something horribly violent. I'm still responsible for that violence, because nobody but me choose to play certain video games.

As I said before, even if you came from an environment that influenced your behaviour badly, you're still responsible for what you do.

I've personally stayed away from excessively violent games, like games that show blood, because I believe we are influenced by what we choose to do.

Its still BS, people commit violent acts due to their particular violent nature, kids who shoot up schools do because their crazy, not because of video games. I mean if the two kids who shot up Columbine didn't play video games they still would have shot up Columbine because they were neo nazi freaks. If people are influenced by video games they are either can't tell the difference between reality and fanatasy (not the video games fault) or they are weak willed idiots (again not the video games fault). So people who are influenced by video games likely have mental problems in the first place.

You say that these people still "responsible for their actions" but your giving defense lawyers an excuse to try and get clients off, because they will try to shift to the video games, Heaven help us if that happens in court. This just you trying to promote big government again and guess what vidoe games are covered under "freedom of expression".

 

[War Lord]

Its still BS, people commit violent acts due to their particular violent nature, kids who shoot up schools do because their crazy, not because of video games. I mean if the two kids who shot up Columbine didn't play video games they still would have shot up Columbine because they were neo nazi freaks. If people are influenced by video games they are either can't tell the difference between reality and fanatasy (not the video games fault) or they are weak willed idiots (again not the video games fault). So people who are influenced by video games likely have mental problems in the first place.

You say that these people still "responsible for their actions" but your giving defense lawyers an excuse to try and get clients off, because they will try to shift to the video games, Heaven help us if that happens in court. This just you trying to promote big government again and guess what vidoe games are covered under "freedom of expression".

Defense lawyers will do what they do and don't need my help. It's a fact that the more you do something, the easier it becomes to do. Men who rape almost have always started off viewing pornography. There is a link between what we do in our fantasy lives and what the things we do in real life. I love it when people say, "I play violent video games all the time and I'm not violent." The fact is we havent got to the point of technology where we can differentiate between those strongly affected by their fantasy lives and those who are not. When you provide a means of creating violent scenarios, its available to everybody.

Also, I don't believe in mitigating factors, outside of protecting one's life or another life. If you choose to do something, you have to be willing to pay the penalty.

 

[The Overlord]

Defense lawyers will do what they do and don't need my help. It's a fact that the more you do something, the easier it becomes to do. Men who rape almost have always started off viewing pornography. There is a link between what we do in our fantasy lives and what the things we do in real life. I love it when people say, "I play violent video games all the time and I'm not violent." The fact is we havent got to the point of technology where we can differentiate between those strongly affected by their fantasy lives and those who are not. When you provide a means of creating violent scenarios, its available to everybody.

Also, I don't believe in mitigating factors, outside of protecting one's life or another life. If you choose to do something, you have to be willing to pay the penalty.

I have known tons people who look porn a lot and none of them have become rapists and I know people who play violent games who are not violent. People who allow porn or vidoe games to influence their life are likely crazy first place, so I don't see how you blame video games or porn for the actions of people who are crazy in the first place.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

If you make the jump from looking at porn to rape or killing things in a video game to killing people in real life you need to spend the rest of your life in jail, also it'd be good to give said person a vescitime (sp?) so those nutjobs that like to have sex with criminals won't get pregnant.

 

[Addendum]

Besides, some video games can be cathartic. Instead of committing illegal acts in real life, you can relieve your tension and frustration on animated polygons.

I have no qualms about killing a polygon on my screen.

 

[Horrorfan]

I have known tons people who look porn a lot and none of them have become rapists and I know people who play violent games who are not violent. People who allow porn or vidoe games to influence their life are likely crazy first place, so I don't see how you blame video games or porn for the actions of people who are crazy in the first place.

Exactly. If one person out of a million who plays videogames turns violent, how can you blame videogames? If 98% of videogames players arent violent in real life, how can you blame videogames on the 2% that are?

The argument falls down. Its like saying everyone who goes to see a violent film will riot and rape as soon as they come out of the theatre.

 

[War Lord]

I have known tons people who look porn a lot and none of them have become rapists and I know people who play violent games who are not violent. People who allow porn or vidoe games to influence their life are likely crazy first place, so I don't see how you blame video games or porn for the actions of people who are crazy in the first place.

Tons of people are decent people who, unless under the strongest of influences, won't do terribly wrong things. That doesn't remove the fact that there are people, who if it hadn't been for the existence of violent material and instead had nothing but good influences, might not have gone off the deep end and did terrible things.

If you read the biographies of people like Saddaam or Hitler or Stalin or other terrible things, there were influences in their life that led them to become the kind of people they became. Perhaps, had these same people been influenced differently, they might have been different people.

To say that because you weren't influenced (or so you believe) or that the people around you haven't been influenced is like saying that because I am 90 years old and have smoked for years means all the scientific information giving a strong link between smoking and cancer is also bs.

 

[Addendum]

Hitler became a psychopath because he either 1) wasn't that good of a painter, or 2) was a good painter but lacked the proper positive reinforcement.

The second reason is influenced by a Mike Meyers sketch from SNL, where he was a hyperactive-hypoglycemic 6 year old who is harnessed to a jungle gym

 

[The Overlord]

Tons of people are decent people who, unless under the strongest of influences, won't do terribly wrong things. That doesn't remove the fact that there are people, who if it hadn't been for the existence of violent material and instead had nothing but good influences, might not have gone off the deep end and did terrible things.

If you read the biographies of people like Saddaam or Hitler or Stalin or other terrible things, there were influences in their life that led them to become the kind of people they became. Perhaps, had these same people been influenced differently, they might have been different people.

To say that because you weren't influenced (or so you believe) or that the people around you haven't been influenced is like saying that because I am 90 years old and have smoked for years means all the scientific information giving a strong link between smoking and cancer is also bs.

First Saddam, Hitler and Stalin were all psychopaths and second they all had enviromental influences that were far more dire than vidoe games. Unless you can show me some people who were completely well adjusted before playing violent video games and then became violent afterward, yor theory has no basis. Just because your a psychopath and thus can't handle violent video games, doesn't mean that well adjusted people will be effected by video games.

 

[War Lord]

First Saddam, Hitler and Stalin were all psychopaths and second they all had enviromental influences that were far more dire than vidoe games. Unless you can show me some people who were completely well adjusted before playing violent video games and then became violent afterward, yor theory has no basis. Just because your a psychopath and thus can't handle violent video games, doesn't mean that well adjusted people will be effected by video games.

A person is affected by everything they do and say and think. "By beholding, you become changed."

If your looking at video games as a sole influence, you're not going to find it. However, the scientific data is in and there is a corallation affect between violent video games and an increase of violent thoughts.

 

[The Overlord]

A person is affected by everything they do and say and think. "By beholding, you become changed."

If your looking at video games as a sole influence, you're not going to find it. However, the scientific data is in and there is a corallation affect between violent video games and an increase of violent thoughts.

So video games make naturally violent people, more likely to be violent? So what, these people are naturally violent, they could be set off anything. Anyone who is well adjusted can easily handle video game violence, only people with mental problems couldn't and those types of people are like time bombs, anything can set them off. The fact is these psychos will in all likelyhood be violent regardless, so censoring video games will do nothing to stop that, so stop trying to crush freedom of expression to promote your personal moral crusade.

 

[War Lord]

So video games make naturally violent people, more likely to be violent? So what, these people are naturally violent, they could be set off anything. Anyone who is well adjusted can easily handle video game violence, only people with mental problems couldn't and those types of people are like time bombs, anything can set them off. The fact is these psychos will in all likelyhood be violent regardless, so censoring video games will do nothing to stop that, so stop trying to crush freedom of expression to promote your personal moral crusade.

It can also contribute to changing people's attitude and make them less sympathetic to other's hurts.

I'm not promoting anything. I didn't even create the topic, so don't get so defensive. I just simply added what has been noted in scientific studies.

 

[Horrorfan]

It can also contribute to changing people's attitude and make them less sympathetic to other's hurts.

I'm not promoting anything. I didn't even create the topic, so don't get so defensive. I just simply added what has been noted in scientific studies.

So when is the 98% 0r 99% of gamers who don't shoot up schools or rape people going to turn? Should we build bunkers and stock up on water? Because that's gonna be ALOT of violent people out there! (As Ron Burgendy said, 'it's science.')

 

[The Overlord]

It can also contribute to changing people's attitude and make them less sympathetic to other's hurts.

I'm not promoting anything. I didn't even create the topic, so don't get so defensive. I just simply added what has been noted in scientific studies.

It has no major effect on normal people, it would only effect psychopaths like you.

 

[War Lord]

So when is the 98% 0r 99% of gamers who don't shoot up schools or rape people going to turn? Should we build bunkers and stock up on water? Because that's gonna be ALOT of violent people out there! (As Ron Burgendy said, 'it's science.')

I'm not advocating any opinion on this subject.

I never said that violent video games should be banned or not banned.

 

[War Lord]

It has no major effect on normal people, it would only effect psychopaths like you.

It affects everybody. It may be small for most people, but they are affected.

For example, why play violent video games at all?

You might say that because you enjoy it. Why do you enjoy it?

Why can't you enjoy video games that aren't violent?

The most common response I get to that question is that non-violent video games are boring.

If that is your thinking, you have been affected as well, even if you can't admit it.

 

[The Overlord]

It affects everybody. It may be small for most people, but they are affected.

For example, why play violent video games at all?

You might say that because you enjoy it. Why do you enjoy it?

Why can't you enjoy video games that aren't violent?

The most common response I get to that question is that non-violent video games are boring.

If that is your thinking, you have been affected as well, even if you can't admit it.

BS, people can enjoy violent fiction without enjoying violenence in real life. Lots books contain violence, but people could read them without becomming violent people. Violence is a part of human history ands thus an important device for story telling purposes. People who can tell the difference between fanatasy and reality can enjoy violent fiction, but than leave that in the realm of fanasty and dislike violence in real life. You maybe happy watching nothing but the care Bears, I enjoy something a little more edgey.