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"Natural Selection" Discussion Thread

Rate "Natural Selection"

  • 10-Incredible! Tops "Night of the Lizard"

  • 9-I loved it!

  • 8-It was good.

  • 7-Nice but nothing "Spectacular"

  • 6-Above Average

  • 5-It was alright

  • 4-What a letdown!

  • 3-WTF?!

  • 2-Crap

  • 1-Hope it's canceled!


Results are only viewable after voting.
Another awsome episode.This show looks like it has the chance to be truly amazing.
 
As for NS, is it better than NOTL? Lets see. One of the things I loved about NOTL which was missing here was the fear factor. Spider-Man in NOTL seemed afraid to some extent, hearing him talking to himself to calm his nerves was classic. Also, there was a shock value, in which spidey was shocked to actually see a man-lizard who turned out to be the doc but in NS, spidey didn't seem in the least bit worried at all. He just went in all guns blazing.

NOTL?

NS?


As for the episode, I loved it! This show has really surprised me so far, it's nice to finally have a GREAT Spider-Man show.
 
Sorry for the length of time between reviews. Between a new job and family life I haven't had the time I had last week.

This is naturally the 3rd episode of SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN which has been on a bit of a role. Naturally as it stars the Lizard as the main foil, it will be compared to 1994's "Night of the Lizard", the pilot episode from SPIDER-MAN: TAS and some would argue it's best episode. I'd disagree, although the animation quality certainly was the best in that episode. In some ways it is unfair to compare the episode. "NOTL" was literally the first original animated Spider-Man cartoon on the small screen in about 11 years, after SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS signed off. It was Marvel Animation's second major show after X-MEN took over after 1 season. Even B:TAS, which was a hit, was still running new episodes on weekdays and defining superhero animation. SPECTACULAR, as good as it is, has hindsight, two failed shows since the 90's one to learn from, and a trilogy of blockbuster films for rep, as well as years worth of ULTIMATE comics to mine for some ideas, if needed.

That said, "Natural Selection" was a blast, another solid episode in what is quickly become essential viewing. It actually plays against TMNT and I have to tape Turtles, and I don't regret the choice I've made. It is a fun, solid show that nails the Spidey fundamentals. The character models take some getting used to but they move fluidly when they have to, and that is what it is all about. Speaking of which, some angst was made at the time about "Parker's sweat-hoodie" look, but I like it. It is contemporary. He looks like an average kid from HS would look and dress now. Peter's character model isn't as boring as the 90's one, which was too hunky, as if an homage to Christopher Hammond, the 70's live-action Spider-Man. Josh Keaton's eased well into the role of Peter/Spider-Man, able to sound great whether he is dishing out trash-talk as Spidey or some somber narration as Peter. And considering this is one of the first times Gwen is not only animated, but a key part of the supporting cast, she's coming along great.

After being built up over the first two episodes, Dr. Curt Conners continues experimenting on his severed arm with his reptile serum. His newest sample was somehow "supercharged" after a zap from Electro last episode; I LOVE subplotting. Makes all of the episodes matter, that every action has a reaction, so you have to pay strict attention. This time the effect is immediate, with first his eyes changing and then his arm painfully regrowing. I liked the animation they would use for the reptile-growing stuff, the way the flesh would look like it was intertwining together and merging into something like clay. We also get to meet his family more, his wife Martha and his son Billy, who also has an interest in reptiles.

Peter catches May worrying over bills and naturally wants to win J.J.'s "Spidey photo" contest to contribute some income (in the Ditko comics, Peter originally finds May selling jewelry and other items to a pawn shop for money, and I wonder if that will come up in some other episode here; it is an interesting and realistic detail). Once he goes to school, Flash and the jocks begin to pelt him with water-balloons. Peter dodges Spidey-style but in order to save his identity, he allows himself to get pelted, until Gwen stands up for him and disses Flash front of his peers about his lackluster football plays, which I thought was great. Gwen can be sassy but she isn't annoying like, oh, Barbara Gordon on THE BATMAN. This bit also comes into play in a subtle way later on. Unfortunately, while Spidey/Peter has been better at making curfew, he is unable to score some photos, as such realism as glare and whatnot is hindering his "web mounted camera" bit. Part of me is irked at seeing that suspension of disbelief go, but I guess it keeps things interesting and relatable.

Naturally, the fact that Dr. Conners has grown his arm back makes for quite a celebration at the lab with Brock, Gwen, Peter and the gang, at least until the side effects start kicking in, like growing scales and feeling "cold" in room tempurature. Finally, of course, Conners mutates into The Lizard and goes on a rampage. The design for the Lizard was pretty good, although I haven't seen too many in cartoons that were outright terrible. His tail seemed as large as he was, which is accurate for reptiles but it took some getting used to. Lizzy didn't speak, which I didn't mind; he is supposed to be a monster-type and sometimes speaking makes him seem too "cliche villain-type". Imagine if Man-Bat ever spoke on B:TAS, and you may see my point. This episode highlights the dilemma of being Spider-Man like no other this season yet; in order to chase Lizard as Spider-Man, Peter has to basically "ditch" Martha and his friends in the lab. While it was his idea to come up with the type of "serum" that they do, his seeming "flight" from the area when things get hot surprises Brock & Gwen, and not for the better.

The fight sequences from the lab to atop a subway train (maybe an homage to SPIDER-MAN 2?) and then at the zoo were top-notch. Well paced and sometimes brutal. Spider-Man really got thrashed; not only does he need to make a web-wrap for his hand, we got to SEE it get mangled! While there wasn't "punching", at one point Spidey double-kicked Lizard in the head and it was just done well enough that you don't get riled if it doesn't match Superman vs. Capt. Marvel in CLASH. Besides, Spidey rarely stands and punches, he moves around, he flips, he throws, that isn't uncommon. With these simpler models than the 90's show had, the action can really come alive. Eddie Brock also got to lend a hand during the battle and all but saves Spider-Man's life at one point, earning Peter's respect. Unfortunately, when Peter returns to the lab as himself, both of his friends reject him, especially after the Bugle reveals that Peter cashed in the photos. I suppose if Peter was more assertive he would mention that while he did "flee" from the action, his aunt is basically buried in bills and he only did it to help her. Still, it would be little consequence. Naturally Gwen would be irked because earlier in the episode, she stood up for him, and now felt Peter didn't do the same. Brock also once was Peter's protector from bullies and was more irked about the betrayal.

The episode also brings up the subplot of Peter not liking the pressures of being Spider-Man and considering giving up his powers if given half the chance, as the "serum" gave him since it eliminated any non-human DNA, whether lizard or spider. In the end, Peter realizes that while it may have cost him greatly in the long run, he was still able to save Billy from losing his father. That point, about saving someone's father, has come up twice within 2 episodes, but it is Peter's motivation so I don't mind it. It keeps things grounded when it can seem like Peter is TOO light as Spidey, making too many quips. There has to be a balance between fun and seriousness, and this show is managing to do so. You get the feeling that at times being Spider-Man is a release for Parker, a way to be the guy he wants to be rather than who he is stuck as, but it comes with it's own share of hassles, which usually mess with his social life, whether it is worrying May or having his friends think he is a coward.

Some people have mentioned this little incident may help create the divide between Brock and Peter that leads to Eddie of course becoming Venom, Spider-Man's sworn enemy, and maybe it will. But we'll see how things turn out. Will Gwen manage to forgive him enough by next episode to talk to him? Of course, in the comics, Gwen also would get on Peter's case for often "vanishing at the first hint of trouble", so it isn't unheard of. Venom can be a tough nut to crack in terms of writing, and hopefully Greg Wiesman continues to pull up Kings and Aces with him.

I am having a blast with this show. From the themesong to the end credits, it usually makes my Saturday morning, and that is a tough feat considering TMNT's LOST SEASON airing on 4kids at the same time. Next episode promises the Shocker, and while the design isn't quite what I'd have expected, I can't wait to see how he is handled.

This show is also helping me forget Marvel's last dud of a series, FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES.

On the scale of 1-10 above, I voted 9. ;)
 
I think it's an easter egg for upcoming episodes. The show makers said that there would be those.

Well at least make it chronological. Some of us have a tendency to pause...:o

Do u or any one else have a cap of this? I dont remember seeing it when i freeze framed that scene.

Which frame are you freezing at? It's the scene where the Bugle occupies the entire screen.
 
As well as what everyone else has said in response to this statement, wasn't this fight in like the 58th season, I mean they didn't hit like that in the first seasons of regular Justice League. And this is just they first 3 episodes of SSM.

Although personally, I've always thought of Spidey as more of a kicker while Black Suited Spidey punches.
Dude, you are way way off with this.

The very first ep of batman tas had him clocking man bat in the face three times then flying him face first into some construction

superman had face hitting in its first season
so did batman beyond
so did justice league

your black suited comics are purely based on the events of the past cartoon.

how can a true ock story be told if he doesn't realise that he is a threat and isn't willing to go straight for the knock out, a knock out he can't find an opening for.
 
great review dread.
I have to admit spectacular is now my favorite cartoon since justice league, no cartton is going to top that I have my fingers crossed this will come close though :)
 
Well at least make it chronological. Some of us have a tendency to pause...:o



Which frame are you freezing at? It's the scene where the Bugle occupies the entire screen.
I did freeze frame the whole bugle in the scene part i just dont remember seeing those names in there. So could u or someone else get a cap from the scene so i could see it.
 
Dude, you are way way off with this.

The very first ep of batman tas had him clocking man bat in the face three times then flying him face first into some construction

superman had face hitting in its first season
so did batman beyond
so did justice league

your black suited comics are purely based on the events of the past cartoon.

how can a true ock story be told if he doesn't realise that he is a threat and isn't willing to go straight for the knock out, a knock out he can't find an opening for.

Yeah, but the punches weren't as powerful as in Clash where a punch would like make a shockwave.

I'm not saying Spiderman doesn't punch, I'm just saying he's not known for his punching. I've just always thought that he would rather kick or use webs, since they would be more wild and spontaneous. But don't get me wrong, I would love to see Spidey clock some baddies sometimes, but not always. And again, it's only the first 3 episodes. I'm sure in an episode where he get's mad, he could start dishing out the punches and pound someones face in.
 
Yeah, but the punches weren't as powerful as in Clash where a punch would like make a shockwave.

I'm not saying Spiderman doesn't punch, I'm just saying he's not known for his punching. I've just always thought that he would rather kick or use webs, since they would be more wild and spontaneous. But don't get me wrong, I would love to see Spidey clock some baddies sometimes, but not always. And again, it's only the first 3 episodes. I'm sure in an episode where he get's mad, he could start dishing out the punches and pound someones face in.
actually if u watch closely Spidey punched The Lizard in this epsiode(natural selection) and with the hand he broke.
watch the episode again and pay close attention to the subway fight scene after the lizard brakes spidey's hand, spidey punches him on the train when the lizard tries to bite him.
 
actually if u watch closely Spidey punched The Lizard in this epsiode(natural selection) and with the hand he broke.
watch the episode again and pay close attention to the subway fight scene after the lizard brakes spidey's hand, spidey punches him on the train when the lizard tries to bite him.

I know he punches and I liked the fact that he did, but what the other guys are saying is that he doesn't punch enough or hard enough.
 
Yeah, but the punches weren't as powerful as in Clash where a punch would like make a shockwave.

I'm not saying Spiderman doesn't punch, I'm just saying he's not known for his punching.

You've obviously never seen the '60s show. In that show, Spidey punched a LOT and he punched HARD.
 
Nor' would I.

One hard punch that comes to mind was one to Mysterio in The Menace of Mysterio.

Spidey sent him straight across the room with that one.:up:
Yeah, I loved that punch. Didn't Mysterio go sliding right down a table? I'll have to check some time. Thankfully, I bought the 1960's show DVD collection in 2004, which is when it came out. :up:
 
Yeah, I loved that punch. Didn't Mysterio go sliding right down a table? I'll have to check some time. Thankfully, I bought the 1960's show DVD collection in 2004, which is when it came out. :up:

Yes he did.:word:

So did I, got it the day it came out. I'm sure you can tell I'm a big fan of the show, as I used several 67' Spidey avatars in the past.
 
Hey guys i am still looking for a cap of the bugle at the end of the episode which people mentioned names of upcoming villains are on. Thanks in advance if any one can get me a cap of what i am looking for.
 
The Lizard has doomed Spectacular Spider-Man. No episode will top "Natural Selection". :hehe:
 
Spidey tracks down Lizzy to a subway station where he's about to eat a Raver Girl, saves her and hurts his hand by touching the third rail. Somewhere out there, Electro's thinking WTF!?

Yeah but it happened when he touched the third rail. Which is funny cuz he was fine after fighting Electro.

No, he gets his hands hurt by Lizard tail-smashing Spidey's left hand while he's holding himself up on that steel beam. The blow throws Spidey to the floor where he almost lands on the 3rd rail, which would've electrocuted him. "Watch that 3rd rail, Webhead". Then he webs up his hand and jumps back into action.


GREAT GREAT Episode!! :) :up:
 

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