new (fan) film im in the early stages of making and would like some true fans help on

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edit. i hate using the term 'fan' film. this is a movie made by a fan, but im still using by talents in film. its adapting characters in comic books. im taking this movie seriously and will execute to the best of my abilities.

well this will be titled "Make 'em Laugh"...you've probably guess it but it is a hour and half story following a young man named Joe Knight. As a kid all Joey wanted to do was be a comedian. He watched stand-up on tv as a kid and was the class clown of his high-school and grade school carreer. When Joe graduates from college with a major in thearter and arts, he meets a girl and move to gotham city to pursue a career in stand-up. Night after night, he just isn't getting the laughs. he starts losing gigs and eventually can't get a job in the big city. One night he's arguing with a club owner for just 5 minutes on stage and he refuses. walking out of the club he is confronted by a man named who goes only by "Black Mask". He and his thugs offer Joe a job in this gang. He immeditly refuses, but when Joe gets home his wife has a suprise for him. She is pregnant. Joe knows if he works for "mask" then he'll have money that he really needs to support his family. he goes back and takes the job. After many months as a hitman and thief for this gang. He realizes he can't keep lying to his wife. He asks to leave but is told he must go on one last mission as "The Red Hood". He agrees but is actually set-up by his own gang whem they call the cops on him. The police show up and so does a masked vigilantee known as "Batman". When Joe tries to flee, he falls into a vat of acid. Belived to be dead, the police leave.
 
cont...
Hourse later, he climbs out of the body bag he was in and escapes the morge. He sneaks to his home, to find his wife and newborn dead. Distraght by this, he exits and wonders around aimlessly. He passes out in the middle of a long dirt road exiting Gotham where he is picked up by the local circus passing by. He wakes up with the freaks show, they say they will take care of him, because hes one of them. He doesnt know what they mean, when they give him a mirror hes is in horror of what he sees. He has white skin, green hair, and bright red lips. he starts to cry, but the tears turn into laughter. Joe has no memory of who he is or what has happened. They name him "The Joker". Months follow as Joe "The Joker" starts working at the circus as a behind the scenes crew man. One night when the owner of the circus is caught abusing a women who works in the freakshow, Joker comes to the rescue of her. The man tells Joker that hes just a freak too and has no buisness with him, when the owner lunges at Joker, he ducks and pulls out a shaving blade
 
cont.
and kills the owner. Joker is suprised by himself and how he learned to kill like that. The circus comes out of there tents tell Joker they owe him they're lives. Apparently, the owner had been keeping them all against there will. He had promised to pay them when he had made more money. But a flashback shows that they snuck in saw the owner counting money and he had been spending theres all this time, and pay the local mobs money he owed them for whatever favor. He would use threats and beat them down with his words telling them they cant work anywhere else so they have no choice but to stay. Joker decieds to take it upon himself and take the money, and take over as owner/ringmaster. Even going as far to put on the ringmaster purple suit. He tells them they shouldnt be living like this anymore, and that with man power like this we can run gotham. He gets a backing from them all, and they decied to rent out a run down toy factory and run operations there. Joker decieds to start killing off head Dons of diffrent mobs and gangs in the city. By doing so, they thugs and soldiers who worked for those gangs, then turn to joker for a job. The rise of The Joker as the clown prince of crime starts as he is collecting more power...
 
cont..
he starts having nightmares and wierd flashbacks of a women and child and a giant Bat pushing him. (He starts remembering little things of his past). he decides to kidnap a local, unknown, therapist named Jonathon Crane for answers. Crane tires to intrepret Jokers memories and tries and help his "patient". Crane prys too far one session and Joker turns the tables and becomes defensive calling names, which brings Crane memories of his own childhood. Crane leaves and tells him he doesnt care if he kills or threatens him, becuase he has no fears anymore, and one day, Joker will fear him. Batman starts to notice the theatrical crimes and murders 'The Joker' is comiting. Eventually there is a grand finale against the man who laughs and the man who 'created' him.
 
now, i hope u gusy like the story. ive worked hard trying to re-create a joker origin. its a story ive always wanted to tell. if anyone would like to offer ideas or complainst please feel free.


what i need help with the most and want ur guys' opinoins on the most is the casting.
 



tim is up for batman. hes a decent actor. but in my script, batman doesnt talk much, hes very cold and dark. tim can do it and has a pretty cool voice hes working on.
 
jordanwithb.jpg


jordan is up for joker as well. he looks like the part a little more, but his acting is that strong for the serious parts. joker in my movie isnt just a crazy funny guy. he has alot of serious and emotional scenes as well. between nic and jordan...

he is also up of the role of a cameo of a cop by the name if John Jones.
 
martcho.jpg

marty will most likely be playing Dr. Crane. He looks the part, and can act. he can capture the nervous, and seriousness of Crane.
 
i was wondering if i could get ur guys' opinion on the casting? and story
 
Casting looks alright, story is alright, lol. I just think you need to switch up the cast for Joker.
 
Holy ****!

Yeah story needs much much work... I suggest you get a book entitled "Story" by Robert McKee, also "The Visual Story" by Bruce Block is great for learning how to frame shots and tell stories without tons of exposition and flashbacks. Right now everything is sounding really cliched and palyed out (yes even though your origin story is different... that is of no matter).

PITCH:

First off, please spare us the long diatribe and get to the point. You need to have a premise... what are you trying to say with this story ("How joker became Joker" is not enough). After that, give us a one sentence description (logline) of the story, don't go on and on about the details, just find the quickest way to describe the story. Then if we need more detail give us a one paragraph synopsis along with character studies for the main players not just "Joker is an insane killer" or "Batman is cold and dark", really delve into the characters and know them inside and out! After that, you have to story board it for us. I can't take you at your word. I could care less about what your buddy looks like with make-up. First Direct the film in your head put it down on paper (if you don't know how to draw then use stick figures or get an artist buddy to do it for you), THEN worry about casting.

STORY:

Your main character doesn't have much of an arc. He is just some regular guy and then he changes like that. He has no motivations to his actions other than being just "CRAZY" which by the way is very played out when it comes to The Joker.

Too many frekin flashbacks!

Finally,... you say that you hate the term "fan film", but what you are setting out to do is exactly that. A little more research and thoughtfulness you might make something that is of note. Otherwise it will just be another "Patient J". Hate to break it to you like this but WORK HARDER.

I can't offer any opinions on casting, you haven't explored the characters enough. Do you even have a script? Besides... casting based on looks usually does not work to your advantage.

Another word of advice... keep it simple!

Your spelling really needs work!


I only critiqued you in this manner because as you said, you are "taking this film very seriously":) If its just a fun little project for you and your buddies then forget I said anything...
 
Joe Knight is not only a horrible name for the Joker, it's also innacurate, his name is officialy Jack nowadays, thanks to Batman Confidential...and the suddenness of his change also bothers me...it works in Killing Joke cause he just has all this horrible s**t thrown at him in the span of a few hours and just sort of checks out, and it was written by Alan Moore, who could write down a list of random names from the phone book and it would be a comic book landmark...I also think you're trying to throw way too much stuff in at once, and everyone is too damn young for your casting...
 
thanks alot for all the input from everyone i really appreciate it..

re-reading what i had posted..i did a horrible job at explainingthe story. it now appears that this is going to be a half-assed attempt with no work, and no experiance on filmmaking. im sorry to present it all like this because now when i look at it, it looks very ammaturish and pathetic. like i had said, this film is in the very early stages. i wish i hadnt presented everthing like the way i did. it now looks like i have no clue what im doing, and im sure everyone's going to just dismiss this as "just another fan film", but i hope by the time its done, people will watch and think its better than "just another fan film"
 
Hey we all gotta start somewhere... You definitely have the passion to create something good, that is key. I tried to be as objective as I could so that you understand, there will always be critique and it is not meant to discourage you but encourage you to go further... If you really want to do this and you want to make it good, I have not doubt you could accomplish it, just be prepared to explain yourself and be prepared to work your ass off. It may take a while before you are ready, hell by the time you roll you may even be working with pro actors and with an actual crew:)

Don't take crits. too personally, don't be discouraged, just give it your best and understand that your best will not always be 100%. Keep at it!!!
 

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