Superman Returns New interview with mike dougherty,now Iam worried the space journey left out?

[superkong 500]

At least IKnowJudo TRIED to explain his reasoning. So far all I'm reading is foot-stamping. I know I've laid out why i think it's a great cut, but man...how is losing a scene of a guy flying around a bunch of rocks AT THE VERY BEGINNING going to make the movie feel RUSHED?

I mean--think critically here for a second. How does that even make sense? It's the BEGINNING of the movie. Before, you began with a ship in space entering an asteroid field. Now, you begin with a ship in space rocketing towards earth. How is anything fundamentally changed in the structure of the movie to the point where losing that 5 minutes makes the movie RUSHED?

Hows. Whys. I'm looking for those. Because half of this hand-wringing seriously doesn't make any sense when you guys try to explain it.

And here's another thing--keep in mind the movie isn't REALLY aimed at hardcore superfans who eat comics for breakfast and crap film-reels of the 78 movie: You think audiences will even really GET that their first look of Superman is superman in a spaceship wearing a strange grey suit flying around a bunch of space rocks? You know how potentially confusing that might be to an audience?

"Oh. I guess that's...that's Superman I guess. He's wearing grey though. Weird. Wait, why's Superman in a spaceship? He's SUPERMAN, right? I didn't know Superman needed a spaceship. He can fly and s**t, right? What's he looking at? I'm guessing that's a blown up planet. Is Superman touring Alderaan? HA get it? I remembered that Star Wars movie thing. So..okay, is he gonna get out of the ship? He looks OH--OH IT'S KRYPTON. Okay. He's looking at Krypton. I sorta remember that dome thing. Oh, hey he's--he's turning the ship around and....and he's leaving. Okay. Wait, why is Superman in a spaceship again? He's Superman. that IS Superman, right?"

Or you have a ship looking like a comet hurtling towards earth and seeming to menace a poor old woman, who knows what's coming out of that thing. An alien? A menace? A villain? Edgar from Men In Black? The old woman goes to inspect, a hand comes out of the darkness--and it's SUPERMAN. It's Clark Kent. And that's Ma Kent! Ahhh..okay, I gotcha. Awright, so why's he look like that and where's he been? Oh, hey, cool, they're already telling us. Nice.

LOL I can imagine something like this in a FG episode in which peter is watching SR in the theater and is saying this outloud and everyone gives him the eye.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

LOL. Jesus Christ, millennium, it's a f**king message board. This is how they WORK. Dealing with it isn't MY PROBLEM. I'm trying to tell you how unneccessarily you're worrying over something that wouldn't have even affected you had you not waded into the spoiler forum without knowing crap like this happens EVERY TIME. You can't get too attached to the spoilers, that's lesson one.

I'm not trying to change YOUR mind. I'm trying to speak MY mind. Two totally different things. And it's not at all like I'm working for WB, either, that doesn't even make any goddamned sense.

 

[SuperDaniel]

^^^^I doubt the audience would be that stupid. They would see the ruins of Krypton, the S emblem in the statues, the dome destroyed, that is a very powerfull scene...Nobody is alive there! Its tragic, Superman is the last of his race. How cant you understand that? But if is just a conversation between him and Martha, it loses the drama a lot...Sorry but putting drawings and texts in the oppening credits is cheap storytelling. This is a movie. Visuals should tell the story not some ****ing drawing. This is just a terrible decision.

 

[rohitiyer]

^^^^I doubt the audience would be that stupid. They would see the ruins of Krypton, the S emblem in the statues, the dome destroyed, that is a very powerfull scene...Nobody is alive there! Its tragic, Superman is the last of his race. How cant you understand that? But if is just a conversation between him and Martha, it loses the drama a lot...Sorry but putting drawings and texts in the oppening credits is cheap storytelling. This is a movie. Visuals should tell the story not some ****ing drawing. This is just a terrible decision.

You too make a good point. If the movie is called Superman Returns... then I guess we should definitely see what he returned from, at some point or the other.

 

[SuperDaniel]

This is a movie about Superman trying to find his place.You cut the ENTIRE Krypton sequence, you loose the tragedy, the grandiosity of Superman and it becomes ANOTHER superhero movie about the hero dealing with girlfriend problems and later in the movie, when he finds his place, he connects with his humanity, it doesnt have the same impact.

 

[DogofKrypton]

LOL. Jesus Christ, millennium, it's a f**king message board. This is how they WORK. Dealing with it isn't MY PROBLEM. I'm trying to tell you how unneccessarily you're worrying over something that wouldn't have even affected you had you not waded into the spoiler forum without knowing crap like this happens EVERY TIME. You can't get too attached to the spoilers, that's lesson one.

I'm not trying to change YOUR mind. I'm trying to speak MY mind. Two totally different things. And it's not at all like I'm working for WB, either, that doesn't even make any goddamned sense.

You seem to be getting far too upset with people who are unhappy with this "revelation". You gave your opinion many pages ago, and yet you still want to hammer people for having their own. Feel free to deny this is what you are doing, but let me tell you, it comes across EXACTLY as that.

THEY are upset this is cut. Fine, people are entitled to feel that way. Why does it bother YOU so much?

 

[Cinemaman]

How did Supes get spaceship???

Isn't it spaceship, which came from Krypton???

 

[SuperDaniel]

Besides, a movie is supposed to be seen on the theaters, not in a ****ing DVD!

If it was a stupid scene, i would agree with the cut. Most scenes that are cut are pointless. But not a powerfull scene about Superman trying to find his place in the universe.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

You seem to be getting far too upset with people who are unhappy with this "revelation".

It's not upset. That's pretty much how I talk. They're unhappy with it. I'm not. I understand, but I don't really understand the reasoning, and some of the reasonings make no goddamn sense to me, so I'm arguing against that. Again--it's a messageboard. Discussion is supposed to happen on it. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people shouting into the void without really giving a crap what anyone else thinks, without any ideas actually being exchanged, and if you wanted to do that, you could just haul a mirror out of the bathroom and spend all day talking about Superman to THAT THING, right?

Substitute Mirror for Brick Wall in some cases and it's the same s**t.

i just want someone to make some sense. Judo tried. I still disagree with some of his reasoning, but it at least made sense. I'm not saying they're not entitled to feel the way they do, but if their reasons for it are utterly mindless, then I'm going to say something. Because (again) it's a messageboard. It's a discussion forum. Discussion is not "oh. well, okay, your opinion is different than mine. I'll go wander somewhere and completely dismiss you."

for example:

You cut the ENTIRE Krypton sequence, you loose the tragedy, the grandiosity of Superman

He still has yet to explain how that is. The one time he tried he ended up backing up MY point of view by referencing an episode of Smallville. I'm curious to see how he explains that you lose (not loose) the tragedy inherent in Superman's character, in that he's really the last son of Krypton. That's part of who the character is, in ANY incarnation. I'm just waiting for him to explain how losing this 5 minute scene so dramatically alters the character, and why, if it was THAT important to the storytelling, did it get axed in editing?

 

[SuperDaniel]

He still has yet to explain how that is. The one time he tried he ended up backing up MY point of view by referencing an episode of Smallville. I'm curious to see how he explains that you lose (not loose) the tragedy inherent in Superman's character, in that he's really the last son of Krypton. That's part of who the character is, in ANY incarnation. I'm just waiting for him to explain how losing this 5 minute scene so dramatically alters the character, and why, if it was THAT important to the storytelling, did it get axed in editing?

Look. This is a movie. Visuals should tell the story, not some ****ing conversation or drawing and texts in the oppening credits. This is just cheap. It alters the character because it doesn`t have the same impact. It is such a powerfull scene. It his heritage, he is trying to find his place in the universe. He is lost. It adds so much to the drama. This movie should be epic. Like a journey. He is lost in the beggining, the world has changed when he comes back. If he is just sad, we lose the impact. We lose the tragedy. Its like in the Star wars movie having the move starts with Luke already in the ship going to mos eisley and being sad about ihis family and not show him seeing his family dead. The scene where he goes back and see the skeletons, his house destroyed is one of the most powerfull scenes in the history of filmmaking. Cutting the Krypton scene is like cutting that scene from Star Wars.

I hate this decision with all my heart.

 

[DogofKrypton]

It's not upset. That's pretty much how I talk. They're unhappy with it. I'm not. I understand, but I don't really understand the reasoning, and some of the reasonings make no goddamn sense to me, so I'm arguing against that. Again--it's a messageboard. Discussion is supposed to happen on it. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people shouting into the void without really giving a crap what anyone else thinks, without any ideas actually being exchanged, and if you wanted to do that, you could just haul a mirror out of the bathroom and spend all day talking about Superman to THAT THING, right?

Substitute Mirror for Brick Wall in some cases and it's the same s**t.

i just want someone to make some sense. Judo tried. I still disagree with some of his reasoning, but it at least made sense. I'm not saying they're not entitled to feel the way they do, but if their reasons for it are utterly mindless, then I'm going to say something. Because (again) it's a messageboard. It's a discussion forum. Discussion is not "oh. well, okay, your opinion is different than mine. I'll go wander somewhere and completely dismiss you."

for example:



He still has yet to explain how that is. The one time he tried he ended up backing up MY point of view by referencing an episode of Smallville. I'm curious to see how he explains that you lose (not loose) the tragedy inherent in Superman's character, in that he's really the last son of Krypton. That's part of who the character is, in ANY incarnation. I'm just waiting for him to explain how losing this 5 minute scene so dramatically alters the character, and why, if it was THAT important to the storytelling, did it get axed in editing?

Sometimes, you have to say "Enough is enough" and just....let it go. They do not have to justify their opinion to you. Just saying "This is a message board I can do this...." is not a good enough reason. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you always SHOULD. Plus, it's not coming across as a discussion, it's coming across as an "I'm right, you're wrong" hissy-fit.

But carry-on with your "discussion". I'm out.

 

[Octoberist]

Everybody...group hug!

 

[SuperDaniel]

Sometimes, you have to say "Enough is enough" and just....let it go. They do not have to justify their opinion to you. Just saying "This is a message board I can do this...." is not a good enough reason. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you always SHOULD. Plus, it's not coming across as a discussion, it's coming across as an "I'm right, you're wrong" hissy-fit.

But carry-on with your "discussion". I'm out.

Read my post above yours. I`m actually giving reasons why i felt so bad about this decision.

I`ve been backing this movie up for a long time. I haven`t complained at all about the movie since Singer was cast. I am now. And this is a good reason.

 

[DogofKrypton]

Read my post above yours. I`m actually giving reasons why i felt so bad about this decision.

I`ve been backing this movie up for a long time. I haven`t complained at all about the movie since Singer was cast. I am now. And this is a good reason.

Last post, honest.

I actually wasn't referring to you. I just think this has turned into someone wanting to hammer home the fact that they are "right", and trying to force other's to prove he isn't. Not a very good "discussion".

But Like I said, carry-on.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Its ok. Fatboy thinks its a good cut, i don`t. It`s all good. But i don`t think anyone`s been calling names or having a heated discussion. He`s expressing his point of view and i`m expressing mine. Its all good.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

I'm out.

You were never in, man. Youre not actually discussing the topic, youre discussing ME, so much so that it appears youve changed your sig to reflect that. Which is nice and odd.

If Dan here doesnt mind the back and forth, and hes not taking it personally, as Im not, why should you weigh in on how inappropriate our discussing the movie on a messageboard made to discuss the movie is?

Because, by the way, that doesnt make any sense.

 

[SuperDaniel]

I don`t mind the back and forth at all. And i never take it personally. Its a good discussion, i think. So, what did you think of my last post? The Star Wars comment.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

Yunno what, that's actually a pretty good example, with Luke going back to the homestead, Dan. If he freaks out and flies off--we cut to the death star--and then we cut back to Luke flying back? You really DO lose an important part of Luke's realization of what he has to do.

That is a pretty decent analogy. But again--that was set up by about a half hour of movie up to that point. This scene occurs smack dab after the opening credits, no set up, no build up.

But that was a good shot, man. I still think had you not spoiled yourself you wouldn't be feeling this way, but at least you've got time to make some sort of peace with it before you hit the theater.

I hope

 

[superkong 500]

Well Both opinions are valid ones,Iam more on SD's side this time because I think that the scene should have been left in and that it is an emotional scene that would reflect supes feelings later on,but at the same time if it was cut,I think its got to be for a good reason.The movie is supposed to be 2 1/2 hours long, so there most be something more relevant than this that indicates supes loneliness in earth. and Iam not refering to being without lois only.Anyway I don't think they will cut the whole scene,maybe they will show some of it somehow.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Well...i actually thought of a way i can forgive Singer for this cut...We know this movie starts with the boy reading the comic book, just like S:TM. So, one drawn panel shows the image of a destroyed Krypton and the spaceship hovering over the ruins. Then, the camera zooms into that panel and it becomes real, just like the Daily Planet building in the first movie. We, the audience, are seeing what Superman is seeing. The camera pass through the ruins of Krypton(matter of seconds) and we travel back to Earth as the main credits roll, an opposite thing of what happened in the first movie. That would be amazing.

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

That's actually a decent compromise. That's how I was thinking the opening would go at first, actually, but now I'm not even sure the comics intro is still happening, considering the main titles are only 3 minutes long this time out, at least according to the soundtrack.

 

[SuperDaniel]

What? They cant cut the boy reading the comic book too...thats is too much! I believe they can do what i said in 3 minutes.

 

[Superman \S/]

So they're seriously goona cut out the space journey? Why? I thought the whole purpose was to show why he left! Unless it's gonna be some flashbacks...

 

[millennium movies]

My god i've been away for a few hours and he still went on! This guy...

 

[Fatboy Roberts]

What's more amazing: That Daniel and I managed to have a fun little convo that we both enjoyed having?

or that you managed to tear yourself away from the computer for a few hours?