New Joe Fridays Week 27

[Kevin]

Damn, these bastards took forever.

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays27.html

 

[Dread]

- It did lay down the groundwork that the SHRA in some form will exist after CW ends and that means Cap & his Secret Avengers either lose or have some sort of pyric victory. It is the only ending that could, as Tom B. promised, make fans angry and also rivet.

- Joe Q makes the typical arguement about how Marvel has been innovative with heroes since the 60's and that DC is plagued by their dilemma of not being able to update their classic heroes. I suppose he is forgetting how DC constantly has many older heroes die to be replaced by younger, ethnically diverse versions who act as cyphers. I mean I'm not denying it or disagreeing, but I keep hearing these arguements and they get old.

- Joe Q also reveals that CIVIL WAR was part of his big push to "get back to the old days" of Marvel when things were "less cushy", i.e., two heroes could bump into each other and fight to the death for no good reason. Which seems dubious as that could happen even before CW. In fact that is THE most overused comic book storyline after "stop the villian from destroying/taking over the city/world". It puts the D in OVERDONE. And part of what DC DOES do well is that their superheroes by and large form a sort of "community", something Marvel has rarely done because they spent a large part of their recent history seperating their franchises aside for occasional crossovers or guest shots, which CW doesn't change. SPIDER-MAN was in his own alternate universe for a good 15 years, as were the X-MEN, FANTASTIC FOUR, PUNISHER, GHOST RIDER, et al. Now, a year after using DECIMATION to "put the genie back in the bottle" and essentially dramatically effect NONE of the revelevent X-Men (and any depowered B or C lister like Iceman or Jubilee can be repowered at a moment's notice for plot convience) and that all of their core titles ignored, reducing key fallout to mini's. All it did is run screaming from any notion of "evolution" or a "mutant community" that was among some of the highlights of Morrison's run. Joe Q brags about how innovative Marvel is while his big stories, by his own admission, seek to return a partial status quo from the Vietnam years.

- He also brags about tricking fans on Speedball. It always is great to hear the EIC of a company bragging about tricking his customers. It makes me feel warm and tingly. How about feeling good about earning almost a half million copies sold of two issues of an ULTIMATE WOLVERINE VS. HULK series that never will be finished?

Beyond that, nothing too huge. Just a end of the year Joe Q schlong sucking. Because lord knows the guy doesn't get enough pats on the back. I can't wait to read what Newsarama and Joe himself congratulate about him next.

That said, there is plenty to spread congrats over at Marvel:

- Outselling DC 11 months out of 12 despite some competition not seen in years.

- A Marvel event that does more than flesh the X-Men and touches all corners of the Earth based Marvel Universe, from the Avengers to the Inhumans to Spider-Man and every D-Lister in between.

- Annihilation, which amps up the space people. Considering Joe himself claims to "not get" space opera, it's a mircale he was willing to invest this much into it.

- Successful relaunches, either in quality or sales, of some past B-List properties like Moon Knight, Iron Fist, the aforementioned Annihilation, Ghost Rider, a new Ant-Man and even a good Punisher: War Journal.

- Bringing back Dwayne McDuffie back to the comics scene and putting more faith into the rising star of Dan Slott, who revived the GLA, Squirrel-Girl, and had 7 issues of a great THING, let along SHE-HULK.

- Not giving up on RUNAWAYS and willing to invest the A-List Whedon after Vaughan leaves the book next year. Doubts aside, it is worth acknowledging the investment because Marvel could have easily attached a writer who had less namepower and then watched the book fade in 6 months. Instead they bring in a guy who easily can add 50,000 readers to the book to give it one last chance.

- Despite abysmal sales, willing to let MARVEL TEAM UP end the way Kirkman wanted, rather than cut it off maybe 6 months sooner.

- Bringing back the Official Handbook competantly. The 2004-2005 were stop-gaps at best but the 2006 editions are far better.

- Being innovative with DTV animation to escape network pressures, and starting to really challenge DC's dominance in the mass media.

 

[Red]

Joe's comments about CW, just add more proof to my theory that:

Spoiler

Cap will die in #6

 

[Dread]

Joe's comments about CW, just add more proof to my theory that:

Spoiler

Cap will die in #6

Yeah, I've started seriously considering this possibility in recent weeks. The Marvel of 2007 sounds like the SHRA in some form survives and Brubaker would easily be lured into having, perhaps, his own baby Winter Soldier taking on the shield. I mean, he's a cyborg. In the 90's a cyborg = instant cool. The only way you could be cooler would be to be a cyborg ninja gorilla (and Image did that, thanks Cy-Gor).

But that is the only ending that Marvel could accurately claim would incite fans. The Secret Avengers either lose or pay such a price for a minor victory that it doeesn't seem worth it. But the SHRA has to be repealed slightly because the MU couldn't remain as a place where any superhero without a badge is attacked by 200 cape-killers whenever they stand on a roof. It may be possible that the act is even repealed but the heroes who registered remain federal agents, whether they want to or not.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

-
That said, there is plenty to spread congrats over at Marvel:

- Outselling DC 11 months out of 12 despite some competition not seen in years.

- A Marvel event that does more than flesh the X-Men and touches all corners of the Earth based Marvel Universe, from the Avengers to the Inhumans to Spider-Man and every D-Lister in between.

- Annihilation, which amps up the space people. Considering Joe himself claims to "not get" space opera, it's a mircale he was willing to invest this much into it.

- Successful relaunches, either in quality or sales, of some past B-List properties like Moon Knight, Iron Fist, the aforementioned Annihilation, Ghost Rider, a new Ant-Man and even a good Punisher: War Journal.

- Bringing back Dwayne McDuffie back to the comics scene and putting more faith into the rising star of Dan Slott, who revived the GLA, Squirrel-Girl, and had 7 issues of a great THING, let along SHE-HULK.

- Not giving up on RUNAWAYS and willing to invest the A-List Whedon after Vaughan leaves the book next year. Doubts aside, it is worth acknowledging the investment because Marvel could have easily attached a writer who had less namepower and then watched the book fade in 6 months. Instead they bring in a guy who easily can add 50,000 readers to the book to give it one last chance.

- Despite abysmal sales, willing to let MARVEL TEAM UP end the way Kirkman wanted, rather than cut it off maybe 6 months sooner.

- Bringing back the Official Handbook competantly. The 2004-2005 were stop-gaps at best but the 2006 editions are far better.

- Being innovative with DTV animation to escape network pressures, and starting to really challenge DC's dominance in the mass media.

Agreed on all points. I'd probably add Heroes For Hire to point #4 though.

 

[Darthphere]

I really doubt they'd kill Cap, honestly, I just don't see it happening, especially now that hes at his most popular than he has been in years, but yeah DC is killing off The Question so who knows...

 

[Dread]

Agreed on all points. I'd probably add Heroes For Hire to point #4 though.

I didn't include that because I don't read it.

 

[Dread]

I really doubt they'd kill Cap, honestly, I just don't see it happening, especially now that hes at his most popular than he has been in years, but yeah DC is killing off The Question so who knows...

Part of me doubts it too, but I wouldn't call it impossible at this point.

 

[Darthphere]

It seems Tony is gone anyway, killing Cap off would seem like overkill, oh wait its marvel...

 

[Dread]

It seems Tony is gone anyway, killing Cap off would seem like overkill, oh wait its marvel...

Casualties of War at least laid some hope for Tony Stark. The problem is, and has always been, certain writers like Millar, Bendis, JMS, and even Jenkins who portray him as a near fascist manipulator. It's not the theory, it was the excution. That in a nutshell describes the problems that CW has faced as a story.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I mean, he's a cyborg. In the 90's a cyborg = instant cool.

Have you read Brubaker's Captain America?

They aren't going to kill Captain America. They've said repeatedly (Millar, especially) that that would be a waste of time, given that Cap would never stay dead. Hell, Cap's now bigger than he's been since I don't know when (he's arguably the most high-profile guy in the Marvel U right now).

 

[Red]

I really doubt they'd kill Cap, honestly, I just don't see it happening, especially now that hes at his most popular than he has been in years, but yeah DC is killing off The Question so who knows...

The clues are there:

- Marvel remaining oddly tight lipped about the New Avenger’s roster post-CW (they released the NA roster before Disassembled ).
- The fact that Marvel has held back from releasing the synopsis and cover art for Captain America post-CW.
- Spidey returning to the black costume, perhaps because he is in mourning.

I’m not saying I believe 100%, just that there’s enough evidence to suggest it could happen.

 

[Dread]

Have you read Brubaker's Captain America?

They aren't going to kill Captain America. They've said repeatedly (Millar, especially) that that would be a waste of time, given that Cap would never stay dead. Hell, Cap's now bigger than he's been since I don't know when (he's arguably the most high-profile guy in the Marvel U right now).

No, I haven't read Brubaker's Cap. I'm years behind and don't have the money to buy like 2 hardcovers.

Joe Q also gleefully brags about having tricked fans on Speedball by claiming to want to off him and now setting him up to be bigger than ever. Joe Q and Bendis have also hinted at Wizard that "other people could" be behind the masks of Iron Man & Cap post CW. Stark's survival as Iron Man is apparent in released art for MIGHTY AVENGERS.

Hey, Cap IS hotter than ever, and I don't want him to die either. I didn't invent this theory. I simply am noting it as possible now.

 

[BrianWilly]

Didn't Millar say that no one really that important would die in this series? I mean, he could be showing us his right hand while pickpocketing us with his left or something, but he did say it.

 

[Darthphere]

Isnt Cap and Wolverine confirmed for New Avengers months ago with the whole "Maybe its someone els eunder the mask" garbage.

 

[CaptainCanada]

No, I haven't read Brubaker's Cap. I'm years behind and don't have the money to buy like 2 hardcovers.

Actually, it would either be two hardcovers and two trades or four trades.

That aside, I think the series could be picked up right now (the Civil War tie-ins, perhaps, since they were designed to help orient new readers).

The clues are there:


- Marvel remaining oddly tight lipped about the New Avenger’s roster post-CW (they released the NA roster before Disassembled ).

The artist has said in interviews that Captain America is on the team.

- The fact that Marvel has held back from releasing the synopsis and cover art for Captain America post-CW.

I don't know about the synopses, but the cover art for #25 and #26 are both out; #25's can be seen in the "Next issue" panel of #24, and #26 is online (#26 has three heroes [Sharon, the Winter Soldier, the Falcon] and three villains [the Skull, Doctor Faustus, Doctor Zola]).

- Spidey returning to the black costume, perhaps because he is in mourning.

That's an interesting thing to draw from it. I just chalk it up to a marketing stunt.

 

[The Punisher]

- Successful relaunches, either in quality or sales, of some past B-List properties like Moon Knight, Iron Fist, the aforementioned Annihilation, Ghost Rider, a new Ant-Man and even a good Punisher: War Journal.

Agreed on all counts. All the relaunches of great characters have been great for this year. I hope in 07 we get more relaunches. I want to see titles like Dr. Strange and Namor.

Punisher: War Journal and Immortal Iron Fist were sheer awesomness.

 

[Citizen_Kaine]

Speedball is so obviously [BLACKOUT]Pennance[/BLACKOUT] its not even funny

 

[Dread]

Didn't Millar say that no one really that important would die in this series? I mean, he could be showing us his right hand while pickpocketing us with his left or something, but he did say it.

Apparently he felt Bill Foster "wasn't important". . Or the characterization of several heroes.

That's also a pretty good theory, Citizen_Kaine. Such a shame that character's design just reeks of too many rounds of SOUL CALIBER (Voldo).

 

[CaptainCanada]

Apparently he felt Bill Foster "wasn't important". .

I certainly wouldn't characterize him as important.

 

[Dread]

I certainly wouldn't characterize him as important.

Compared to others, no, he's likely a C-Lister. But I never had anything against him. He was usually more stable than Hank Pym and almost as smart.

 

[CaptainCanada]

But I never had anything against him.

Me neither.

 

[Roughneck]

Cap Dies, Tony Becomes Cap, Maria Hill Becomes Iron Man and all is Stupid with the world.

 

[BrianWilly]

How in the world can Quesada say "Civil War was designed to return our characters back to an earlier mindframe, negating their 'natural progression' that only time and effort has created" in one breath, and then say "DC characters are inferior to Marvel's because they aren't ever allowed to evolve" in the other??

By the way, I also think that that’s why you have to do a Crisis in the DCU, because if you take the characters too far in one direction or the other, the only way to get them back to where you need them to be is to hit the reset.

Yeah, 'cause goddamn "No more mutants" wasn't like that at all, was it? Or you going on and on about how Spider-Man needs to revert to his younger persona in order to be relatable? And the entire concept of the Ultimate universe was just one giant reset button!

Seriously, how can he even say these things with a straight face? The scale of double-standards that he's presenting is off the frikkin' charts.

Merry Christmas.

 

[kainedamo]

Maybe Luke Cage becomes Cap.