Discussion in 'X-Men Sequels' started by Hypestyle, May 23, 2013.
As others have already pointed out, it was Cyclops shown first in the animated series.
But your logic is still flawed. Just because Wolverine had his own comic doesn't mean he had to dominate all the films at the expense of everyone else.
And you need to ask why the X-Men films are more popular than the Wolverine films. The answer is that people are fed up with Wolverine dominating everything and they like to see other characters and hear about their stories and see their powers. It didn't matter that Origins was a prequel - it wasn't a good enough film at the end of the day and that's why it didn't do as well (look at the reviews on RT). Jackman and the studio thought anything they did with Jackman's Wolverine would be a massive success - and they were wrong.
It's time to give some character development to others - and to bring in some new characters.
The problem with this franchise is that it does one thing to death until it's played out. Marvel Studios is exploring new ideas like Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, Black Panther - and it IS also doing a spin-off with the SHIELD TV series. Fox needs to do the same.
You need to expand your thinking a bit. For years we've been told that certain costumes, characters and settings were far too fantastical for X-Men, that their powers and looks had to be toned down. And then along came Marvel and showed that all that fantastical stuff could work. Marvel has confidence in the material whereas Fox is too restrained and too worried about it all the time. They need to think bigger. Millar said the X-Men universe was as big as the MCU - so let's see the evidence.
All it needs is good writing and good directing and for the studio to be a bit more adventurous rather than keeping a lid on the X-Men. Let them soar, let them be epic!
You can face palm all you want.
But most of you can't carry an argument.
You all know a film with the original cast is gonna bring more money than spin-offs and prequels.
I'm not talking about Wolverine's domination in the films, so I don't know why you are bringing it up here. And as I already said here before, Wolverine and the X-Men sells more than Wolverine by just himself. Did I say The Wolverine is gonna outgross the original trilogy? No I didn't. Did I say another Wolverine movie would be a good, no I didn't.
And like I said before, It was a wrong move for FOX to make X3 look like it was the last X-Men movie and release prequels movies after that.
And they could do that in X-Men 5 if they try to change the focus, focus on the team, bring new faces, bring new villains and not include Professor X and Magneto in the movie. I already said that a couple of times.
Most of you think its only possible if they release another spin-off or prequel.
MCU is not similar to X-Men. Just because X-Men's universe is as big as MCU, it doesn't mean they carry as many films as MCU.
You haven't been reading some of the posts in this thread, so I will say it again. At least the Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man, Inhumans can be seen in a different category even if they appear in The Avengers, they wouldn't fall under the category of Iron Man films, the category of Captain America films, the category of Thor films. But Deadpool, Wolverine, First Class, New Mutants, X-Factor, X-Force all falls under the X-Men category and thats why it would have an effect to the future X-Men movie releases if they don't perform well at the box-office. And knowing FOX, they would certainly let the viewers know that they are spin-off movies from the original X-Men series. With MCU, even Guardians of the Galaxy and their movies bombed at the box-office, it wouldn't have an effect on future Iron Man/Avengers movies.
And I bet, if Marvel Studios has the movie rights for the X-Men/Fantastic Four, they would just focus on releasing films with the team like X1, X2, X3, FF1, FF2, FF3 and once in 3 to 2 years, they would appear in The Avengers and have small cameos in the other film. But I doubt they will release a lot of spin-offs like FOX already did with the X-Men series.
you pretty much wont accept what people are sayin to you because its not what you personally want and we know what you personally want because your always sayin it and keep repeatin the same argument over and over and what you say is actually very one minded and flawed.
Thats pretty much it
You can keep saying its very-one minded and flawed but I do have points why its better to just continue the original series than to release a couple of spin-off movies again.
There aren't a lot of spin-offs that did better than the original series. FOX already released 2 and next month, it will be 3, and none of them did better than the original trilogy at the box-office. Why release a 4th one when they could earn so much more with a film that features the original cast especially now that they managed to bring them back in DOFP. They could have another string of films with them and have similar success with the Fast/Furious movie series.
Its not just what I want, but I'm thinking whats best for the series. This series should not just cater for what the fan boys want but they should target the interest of the general audience first. Fanboys will watch the movie no matter what, the general audience wont. So far, X-Men is the only superhero movie series that made three spin-off movies. A 4th one and a 5th one would be a stretch and I believe the more spin-offs that they released, there's more possibility that the mainstream audience won't care about the movie franchise. The other superhero movie series out there aren't prioritizing in making spin-off movies because they probably know they wouldn't earn more money and the spin-off movie wouldn't earn more interest. So FOX should do the same thing. Maybe if they go back to basics, more people will care about the X-Men movies and it would be on people's radar just like it was back in 2003/2006.
The only one placing them in a different category is you. That thinking is limited. There is really no reason that a Guardians of the Galaxy movie should do well. None one knows who they are. The don't have a large exiting fanbase. They haven't had a cartoon etc. But you know what? Marvel doesn't care. They are doing everything to build anticipation for the film, so people want to see it. That's good marketing. They did it successfully with all their films so far to the point that Iron Man is a household name as or more popular Wolverine at this point or at least in the same category.
When people talk about the similarities between MCU and X-men it's the universes and their ability to sustain a variety of properties successfully. You keep limiting your think based on "oh it's just a spin-off of X-men it won't be successful". Instead think of them as properties that simply exist in the same universe. Granted what we've had so far has been spin-offs. But future films wouldn't need to be. Just attach them to the broader X-men universe. A universe in which the previous films took place. You don't have to do another prequel or anything, but you could move forward the way the MCU has. Just because the Avengers exist doesn't mean they had to show up in Iron Man 3 or Winter Soldier or the next Thor. But they do all occupy the same universe. Now I'm not as versed in X-men lore as some but I would think there a lot of interesting properties tied to X-men that are ripe for a film. And just like with Guardians they may not be well known by the GA but with a solid director, good casting etc you could the kind of buzz Guardians is now generating. For example the character Abigail Brand is or did date Beast in the comic. She runs an organization called SWORD, pretty much Shield in space and defends earth from aliens ect. Now I don't know if fox has the rights or not but I think that could be a way for Fox to get into the cosmic elements of the franchise. You have the Shi'nar empire, Vulcan, the other Summers brother etc.
I get that you have a very specific viewpoint on this scenario, but you have to acknowledge there is more than one way for them to approach it.
Anyway I do owe you an apology. I went back this weekend and watched the first two X-men movies and they were fantastic!!! t: I forgot just how good they were. I allowed my dislike for the third to cloud my judgement on the first two. Bryan Singer gets a lot of undeserved hate. I'm now pretty exited about DOFP.
One issue is you can't say wolverine is the favorite character then blame origins failings because he is not with the other Xmen/cast, it doesn't work like that, it had every reason to do a small bit better then X3, it told wolverines backstory which was left a mystery along with cameos of really quite popular mutants
Avengers was a hit and because of that iron man 3 is making the big bucks too, the other characters ain't involved
Great post daybreak! I totally agree with it.
Its cool to see new users having an open and postive mind regarding the x-men universe and the movie universe.
Most of us agree that Fox will finally expand the universe in the next years, so lets enjoy the journey and lets see how awesome their future movies will be and how happy we will be if they sign talented and great cast and crew, including directors, of course.
Im sure in 7 to 10 years, we'll end talking about how awesome was that movie, and how epic was that other movie, and on and on. Im totally excited for the future of this franchise
Even if Origins was a good movie it wouldn't outsold X3. Like I said, Wolverine with the X-Men sells more than just Wolverine himself. It worked well before because it was the first X-Men spin-off movie/first prequel movie/first Wolverine movie and it was released after the highly successful X-Men 3. But look at the buzz for The Wolverine, there's like ZERO excitement. Even though I think Wolverine is the only one that can carry a solo movie other than the X-Men, it doesn't mean he can carry his own 2nd movie and 3rd solo movie and expect it to be successful as his 1st solo movie.
Then whats in store for the other spin-offs, can the other X-Men carry their own film and perform really well at the box-office. A solo movie for Cyclops? Storm? Deadpool? Nightcrawler? Mystique? What about spin-off teams like X-Factor, New Mutants, X-Force? Like seriously, what are you expecting with these spin-off movies? a $50 to $100 milllion domestic gross? And since its a superhero movie, FOX would at least need to spend $50 million just for the film to look expensive and well made, for the stunts/VFX. Its not a romantic-comedy or drama film where they wouldn't need to spend a lot of money. Even if they are good movies and marketed well, it doesn't guarantee success at the box-office.
And if you think its really necessary to release spin-off movies, then why Sony/DC/Disney aren't developing one right now? They aren't doing a spin-off movie for Loki, War Machine, Winter Soldier, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Venom, Supergirl, Robin, Catwoman. Agents of Shield doesn't count because its a TV series and we know FOX doesn't have the rights to make a TV show for the X-Men. Spin-off usually don't do well compare to the series that they came from. If you can list down 10 spin-off movies that did better the original series. Then my argument of "spin-off rarely outgross the original series" is wrong.
Its really just the X-Men and FOX who keeps releasing spin-off movies and I think 3 spin-off movies are enough for now and they need to go back to basics and release films with the original cast who are labeled as the "X-Men".
And Iron Man wasn't a spin-off movie. It was introduced to the general audience as a new superhero film that was turned into a series then the lead character appeared in a cross-over/team-up movie with other superheroes that got a movie too. Iron Man/Hulk/Thor/Captain America weren't spin-offs. Most of the people who watched Iron Man had no idea about this MCU thing. They were marketed as their own thing and not coming from an ongoing movie series.
by comic book fans but you spend most your time talking for the "Casual audience" who ain't in that same league, hense why a character like spider-man is more relatable to a bigger audience
LOL what you are saying ORIGINS did well because of X3? I mean really? what world you on? whatever world it is you seem to believe audiences won't go to watch there favorite character because it doesn't have other characters from the previous films, even though most the other characters were not treated very well anyway and felt like supporting characters alot of the time
yes this ^^ is pretty much it in a nut shell YOU think 3 spin offs are enough and YOU feel they need to get back to basics
wolverine appeared in 3 films, X3 which got a big audience wolverine was the star and then he had his own film after, you couldn't be more wrong, origins failed because while fans wanted more alot of the casual audiences gave up on it and lost interest in the X-men movies, and thats pretty the opinion of many, once a franchise becomes dull many don't wanna pay to see it
They need to go back to basics by releasing films with the original cast. And since 2009, they've been releasing films that featured a brand new cast and it obviously didn't really rejuvinate the public's interest to this series.
Now that the original cast is back for a 4th film, it seems people are really looking forward to a new X-Men movie.
the first Xmen movie started the comic book movie craze, and the sequel X2 didn't make that much more then X1 but it was really well received and had a big cliffhanger and so the 3rd got a bigger audience but overall iTS known to be terrible and the franchise was on its 3rd film but wasn't even making $500 million, or even close to the $800 million that spider-man made the year after and FOX were obviously confused as to why, they had put so much confidence into X3 and it didn't make the big bucks they wanted added with mixed to bad reviews
and they took the route of wolverine alone for cheaper budget and added all the big characters in and it did ok it made money, it made quite abit less then X3, but again it was hit by mixed to negative reviews, was it because it was a spin off? no thats stupid, was it because the previous film pretty much was a wolverine film? maybe!, was it because X3 was lousy, yes most probably, it didn't help people get back into this franchise at all
then came first class which made abit less then origins, but is actually seen as a success for Fox, and you can see why as it made just under what wolverine made but it was a fresh new take with a new cast and didn't have wolverine to fall back on but it still got the audience and it was well received and loved and i believe many felt it was the best comic book movie of 2011, many who gave up on the OT didn't bother paying to see this film but thanks to word of mouth watched it on dvd, and i have heard many say they watched it first on dvd
and overall even though FC and OT are in the same continuity they are also known as kinda seperate franchises to fox because of the different actors playing the roles, hence why they this cross over was felt to be something exciting
there is now a bigger universe with FC and the OT, many have accepted them both, many love fassbender, many love jackman and no one knows how well Days of future past will do but with the reunion factor of the OT and the love brought back by FC i think it will show the Xmen franchise in a new light and defo opening this universe up for both FC and the OT
and yeah i know your blah blah about how everyone got excited about OT returning and was such big buzz, but thats because they been away since 2006, the buzz has died down quite alot since, is it cool they are back? yeah its great, but what you fail to realise is people are incredibly excited to see fassbender and mcavoy back because they were fantastic in the roles and to see the next step in the FC story and if you don't believe me search around, and even the rumor of havoc returning has got people excited because they didn't think it was gonna happen, the same with the OT surprise casting
you don't want spin offs, but thats just you, what you want, your taking your views as casual audiences views but i'l say it again your view points are flawed but its incredibly difficult to get that through to you because you won't accept it and why should you? you want what you want, but personally i like the OT and FC and they have my support for what comes next
Honestly that's all I'm gonna say on the subject
Again, you are assuming that First Class was a separate series. It was a prequel just like Origins.
And X2 did make a lot of money.
First class would be the prequel films, many assumed it was a reboot because of the new cast
Same way there is the OT Star Wars and the prequel Star Wars, I said its like seperate franchises because FC and OT could carry on making movies if the next 10 years side by side I'd they wanted too, 2 different actors playing the roles, not saying it will happen but it could if fox chose too
In the eyes of the mainstream audience, it was a prequel and it is still a prequel to this day. They even showed clips from the OT in the trailer of FC, so there's no way they would have seen that as a prequel + Hugh Jackman's cameo.
And of course, FOX could haven given First Class, the title of the 1st of the prequel series/trilogy but now that they brought back the original cast instead of just releasing a 2nd film with the cast of First Class. Things have changed. For me, the appeal of doing a First Class trilogy is gone when they brought back the original cast.
Contrary to what you believe, I have been reading your posts.
And I can see why you would want to continue the series with the most popular characters. But the problem with bringing back all the OT cast all the time is that there isn't going to much room for new characters, and there definitely isn't going to be room for including Deadpool (who just doesn't belong in a regular X-Men movie) or X-Force. To add new characters and new actors, Fox will have to sacrifice some of the existing characters and actors or we will get an overcrowded mess like X3. Even DoFP looks like it has too many characters to develop properly.
Yes, that's probably what Marvel Studios would do because they already have a whole load of other comic book movies like Avengers, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Guardians, Ant-Man, Doctor Strange. And they only make a maximum of two movies a year anyway.
But Fox does need to expand the X-Men's world. Fans are now expecting Shi'ar/Starjammers/Imperial Guard, Savage Land, Apocalypse, Sinister, Omega Red, Alpha Flight.
If that's how you feel.
now lets move on
why are most of us giving psyclock too much attention?
we already know what he thinks, so it wont change even if we post all the arguments in the world.
so we better move on, guys, and enjoy OUR wish lists.
so... back on topic, which mutants would you like to see in the next movies, guest?
for example, on FC3?
If they really added Bishop, Warpath and Blink to the modern-day X-Men in DOFP, then there's definitely room for new characters. And of course some characters will have to go as each movies passes by, thats why I said Professor X and Magneto shouldn't appear in the next movie, so they could focus on the team, possibly add new members and introduce new villains. Thats a lesser risk than making a movie for an all new team with B-list characters. I'm not like Angamb who thinks every character or every X-Men that appeared in the previous movies needs to be in the movie.
And if Marvel has the rights for Deadpool and X-Force, I think they would find a way to make them appear in a X-Men movie and they wouldn't even need to release a solo movie for them. Look at what they did for Nick Fury, Black Widow and Falcon.