this discussion is pretty much already running here:
I don't need to tell myself, totty. I've played both games.
Well after watching a good amount of gameplay vids from both games, I guess it's pretty much a documented fact now that NG2's gameplay is far superior to DMC4's which only looks flashier instead of having actual substance.
I mean, just look at these vids of Ninja Gaiden 2 in action:
and compare them with this:
It's just...sad. Compared to Ninja Gaiden, it seems as if you're playing DMC4 in slow-motion. And as usual, the enemies are little more than target practice, lingering around like a buncha dumbasses while you mow down their buddies. Dante's punch-kick moves look pathetic and their range is just terrible (on the other hand, the kind of moves Hayabusa is pulling off puts Wolverine to shame). That other conjuring swords weapon like everything else, only looks cool but nowhere near as effective or practical as even the lamest armament in Ninja Gaiden 2. Even the bloody boss character in one of those vids, with its huge size lacks any kind of menacing aura - there is simply no real sense of danger coming off of its attacks.
Matter of fact, I'm quite disappointed - the last DMC4 trailer was awesome and had me genuinely excited about the game but the gameplay vids are just...meh. It simply doesn't have the savagery and intensity that NG2 has oozing out of every single frame.
Funny how you cherrypick the game scores and leave out Ninja Gaiden Black which scored more than any DMC game to date.
Devil May Cry = 92.3%
Devil May Cry 3 Dante's Awakening = 83.9%
Devil May Cry 3 Special Edition = 87.8%
DMC Series Avg. Score = 88%
Ninja Gaiden = 92.1%
Ninja Gaiden Black = 93.9%
Ninja Gaiden Sigma = 86.9%
NG Series Avg. Score = 90.97%
Put me in my place? LOL, just run along now, junior.
Fenrir said:OK I wasn't really in the mood to engage in a ******ed quote war but since you're so inclined to start one, I guess I'll play ball.
Those are all valid complaints, but something tells me you never played Devil May Cry 3, the enemies aren't as aggressive, but dying on the first level isn't uncommon, and it's not because of cheapness, it's because you encounter enemies that force you to constantly keep moving and reacting with split seconds notice. Ninja Gaiden is basically a timing game when it comes to its combat. Devil may Cry, while taking in all those criticisms, is much more free form and actually allows the player real control over the avatar. Ninja Gaiden is very dial a combo, canned moves, and the success of those moves are based on timing, not necessarily doing the right move like in DMC. Now granted the pace is very fast, and that makes it feel intense, but in conjunction with how deficient Ninja Gaiden is in every aspect that isn't its combat system, the game feels quite boring once you've figured out what combo to dial and when, since the AI is reactive, and you can basically manipulate it rather easily.
LOL, I've played all the DMC games Zenien, and have completed both DMC1 and 3 on hard. I really can't imagine anyone sucking so hard as to dying on the very first level in DMC3, it's really quite easy save for the Cerberus boss fight, and that too not because it's "challenging" in any way that requires a real test of your combat skills, but rather it is more a matter of endurance of being able to survive the ridiculous health bars of the bosses, especially on higher difficulties. And I also find it hilarious at you saying that DMC3 is more free form and allows more control over it's avatar than Ninja Gaiden, considering Dante can't even pull half as many moves than Ryu, neither can he wall-run, double jump or even block and counter like Ryu can. Sure you can change styles on the fly in DMC3, but it's really little more than a gimmick to compensate for the lack of moves available to you with a single weapon. As for the dial-a-combo part, I think you've got DMC and NG confused - the very video of DMC3 you posted shows you can simply let loose and look "cool" trying all the wow-combos and chains and mash buttons while the other enemies just watch the show, while in Ninja Gaiden even the lesser fiends and ninjas will kick your ass for attempting such foolery. To succeed in NG, you have to play it like a true master, by mixing combo chains (yes you CAN do that in Ninja Gaiden), throws, air dashes, ultimate techniques with Ryu's vast assortment of acrobatic maneuvers. Plus, the enemies in NG don't just stand there and wait for you to look cool, they really know how to gang up on you and even the lower level enemies can easily chop your health down to critical levels if you're careless. There is NO FREAKIN' WAY you can just "dial combos" in NG and get away with it - because as you start "dialing" these combos, you will almost always get clobbered with ranged attacks (explosive shurikens from ninjas, bullets and rockets from soldiers and teleporting and long range attacks from fiends). And the AI in NG is set up that generally in fights against a group of 3 or more, only a handful will charge against you head on while one or two hang back and provide long range support. Which is why you always have to stay on the move in NG. Standing in one place and "dialing combos" will only get you clobbered. Go play Ninja Gaiden again and then come back to this discussion.
You can melee more then one enemy in DMC.
Yeah, maybe if they're in a tight cluster straight in front of you, but what if you need freely and even simultaneously attack enemies on all sides, like in the final boss fight where you team up with Vergil in DMC3 in which the boss throws a whole bunch of little snakes (or some crap like that) at you that surround you and are really annoying because you can't really dispose them in the way you can with the circular swords slashes, Lunar or Vigorian Flail in Ninja Gaiden.
The weapons don't really have a masssive move list, having played through Sigma, I found them to be pretty shallow, I'm always surprised that people say the weapons have a lot of depth, when to me that's one of the weakest aspects of Ninja Gaiden. Just look at the moves you do have, and how beating an enemy is usually about just doing that one move, timed right.
Then the problem here in not the weapons themselves, it is your poor perception. You say the weapons don't really have a massive move list, even though the move list of Dragon's Fang and Tiger's Claw alone is longer than two weapons combined in DMC3. Not to mention that every weapon in Ninja Gaiden is extremely useful at different points in the game (save for the duplicates like nunchaku, war hammer and wooden sword <well, only until you fully upgrade it> that have much superior alternatives with the Vigoorian Flail and Dabilahro) which somewhat forces you to discover the right weapon for the right time to be most effective, even though you can scrape by the whole using just the one same weapon, but where's the fun in that?
The combat evens out, Ninja Gaiden trades control and actual move depth for a fast pace, and Devil may Cry trades a fast pace for control and move depth. All they need to do in DMC is make enemies more aggressive. The platforming in Ninja Gaiden is better, but aside from being pretty much equal in combat, Ninja Gaiden is virtually ******ed in all other aspects, which is why I don't think it's as good overall.
Again, it is amusing you say DMC has move depth and control in spite of the game's ******ed manual lock function and that fact that it is almost ZERO in acrobatics and lacks essential combat elements like blocking and counters. Sure, DMC3 is flashier and more stylish, but it desperately lacks the substance of Ninja Gaiden, precisely why it failed to garner the levels of critical acclaim of the latter. Anyone who says DMC3 is anywhere close to Ninja Gaiden in combat (let alone EQUAL) is desperately reaching.
Play Devil may Cry 3 on hard mode, or extreme where it's sped up faster then Ninja Gaiden, and say that it doesn't have substance. The distinction really, is that Devil may Cry gives you as much freeform and control as possible, while Ninja Gaiden restricts you, in a lot of ways it's like the control difference between a Metal Gear and Splinter Cell. True Devil may Cry is more mashy, but at the same time it still has that split second timing in abundance, and to actually play DMC well, requires more skill then Ninja Gaiden, because Ninja Gaiden is just a timing game where you hit the right button at the right time, Devil May Cry is free form and its up to the player to figure it out and excell at it. Ninja Gaiden is timing, dial a combo, rinse and repeat, you might be good at timing, but come back when you can pull off moves like this, or style change on the fly like in DMC4.
Like I said in the beginning, I finished both DMC1 and 3 on Hard mode, and the game still isn't as fast as Ninja Gaiden is on Hard mode, especially in the boss duels. I can't stop laughing now as you keep reiterating that DMC is more free-form and Ninja Gaiden is restrictive, when you can't even pull off proper acrobatics in combat, have half as many moves compared to NG, can't block or counter, attack multiple enemies simultaneously from different angles, or even use firearms without holding the moronic manual lock on button. I've already how the style change is little more than a gimmick to compensate for the lack of moves available to you with a single weapon. I don't know where you're pulling that "Metal Gear/Splinter Cell control difference" crap from, because it's quite baseless. As for the split-second timing and requiring more skill, just try taking on both Ishtaros and Nicchae AT ONCE in mission mode and then try telling me if DMC tests your nerves like that. Matter of fact, there isn't an action hack'n' slash game on the planet that throws an enormous mix of challenge and adrenaline rush like that.
Only deluded and pathetic Ninja Gaiden fanboys say that sort of crap.
Onimusha is the worst action game on the market, like you understand that it's a very basic action game that makes God of War look like Virtua Fighter 5. God of War 1 beats the crap out of it and is a more fun overall game than Ninja Gaiden. It's not as deep as NG or DMC but it destroys Ninja Gaiden in terms of level design, atmosphere, fun combat, music, everything. Not even a contest. Saying God of War was beaten by Jak and Daxter is just insane, I love me my Jak and Daxter, but come on the technical and artistic force of GoW is pretty much unmatched. "Omg let's call Kratos boring will giving the most boring and pathetic story in video games a free pass in Ninja Gaiden".
Only deluded and pathetic Ninja Gaiden fanboys say that sort of crap.
God of War 1 beats the crap out of it and is a more fun overall game than Ninja Gaiden. It's not as deep as NG or DMC but it destroys Ninja Gaiden in terms of level design, atmosphere, fun combat, music, everything. Not even a contest.
Only deluded and pathetic GOW fanboys say that sort of crap.
LOL! Have button mashing, luv. And to think you were jumping on NG for having "restrictive combat" and "dial a combo" gameplay. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Oh and the s**tty platforming in GOW stinks worse than the ass of a horse with diarrhea.