Nobody Touches the Wrestling Thread's Lemon

[TheNextNolan22]

On this day: Owen Hart makes a statement early in his career by defeating Hiroshi Hase to win the IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship, becoming just the fifth man to hold the Title and first wrestler born outside of Japan to do so. (5/27/88)

 

[Hunter Rider]

Are the debuts pro wrestling as a whole or just WWE?

On the factions I can't see how the top 3 could be anything but The 4 Horseman, NWO and DX.

 

[Mister J]

You know those lists are ****ing rigged when The Brood rank higher on a Best Factions Ever list over the Horsemen and NWO. #1 Made sense though.

What? This is horse****... and I love the Brood.

 

[The Sage]

I watched ROH's 12th Anniversary show today, one of the best of the year even if it inexplicably closes with a garbage match between Steen and Cliff Compton.

AJ Styles vs Jay Lethal was a textbook showcase of athleticism, Cole vs Hero was good, solid pro wrestling and reDRagon vs Adrenaline Rush stole the show, fantastic tag natch, no team puts together a finishing stretch better than reDRagon IMO.

Is that show on youtube? Or at least some of it?

 

[Wheels]

I would've put Cena at The Outsiders spot, Undertaker at Jericho's spot, and have the top 2 be Outsiders and Jericho.

YES! Rocky shouldn't even be on the list by the way. His original character was an epic failure and the Nexus and Shield debuts were more exciting and memorable. The actual debut of Rock is not great.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Are the debuts pro wrestling as a whole or just WWE?

On the factions I can't see how the top 3 could be anything but The 4 Horseman, NWO and DX.

If the top 3 wasn't DX, NWO, and The Horsemen, it would be ********. Turns out it was.

Oh and the debuts were WWE.

 

[The Sage]

Are the debuts pro wrestling as a whole or just WWE?

On the factions I can't see how the top 3 could be anything but The 4 Horseman, NWO and DX.

As a whole. And that's what I expected to see and somehow Horseman was ranked # 4, NWO ranked # 3.

I just don't understand how Brood can be ranked # 2. Doesn't even make sense. It's almost like one of those "We can't let something created by WCW be seen that high up" moments.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

YES! Rocky shouldn't even be on the list by the way. His original character was an epic failure and the Nexus and Shield debuts were more exciting and memorable. The actual debut of Rock is not great.

I see why they put Rock and Cena on there as they made impressions in their first matches, but I think it was a just a case of showing what they EVENTUALLY became. The same can be said about Undertaker's, but his was hyped up so...

 

[Kaleb]

What? This is horse****... and I love the Brood.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

As a whole. And that's what I expected to see and somehow Horseman was ranked # 4, NWO ranked # 3.

I just don't understand how Brood can be ranked # 2. Doesn't even make sense. It's almost like one of those "We can't let something created by WCW be seen that high up" moments.

Notice how all these countdowns start off with older stuff, but eventually make their ways down to more modern stuff.

 

[Mister J]

I just don't understand how Brood can be ranked # 2. Doesn't even make sense. It's almost like one of those "We can't let something created by WCW be seen that high up" moments.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Is that show on youtube? Or at least some of it?

I don't know if it's on Youtube, worth checking out though. You really can't go wrong with checking out any reDRagon matches you can get hold of in truth.

If the top 3 wasn't DX, NWO, and The Horsemen, it would be ********. Turns out it was.

Oh and the debuts were WWE.

You'd think Triple H would sign off on this stuff to prevent such utter nonsense.

As a whole. And that's what I expected to see and somehow Horseman was ranked # 4, NWO ranked # 3.

I just don't understand how Brood can be ranked # 2. Doesn't even make sense. It's almost like one of those "We can't let something created by WCW be seen that high up" moments.

The thing is even if they were taking such a petty stance, surely there were better options than The Brood? I mean there's Evolution, The Ministry of Darkness, The Corporation, hell even the Million Dollar Corporation was bigger than The Brood.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[The Sage]

Notice how all these countdowns start off with older stuff, but eventually make their ways down to more modern stuff.

Right! It's like the ranking of the villains. There's NO WAY Randy Orton is the # 2 best villain. Not over CM Punk, Triple H, Piper, Hollywood Hogan. He was never that good as a heel. He's only been all around good in the last year. Vince as # 1 I can't argue at all.

It really must be kids doing the voting.

 

[Kaleb]

That Nexus group were even bigger than the Brood

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Legendary.

 

[OnTheAir]

I see a lot of negativity in this thread about current WWE and I think you can see the threads are moving slower, but in truth I'm not sure what people want them to do, they are pushing a whole tonne of new guys and a lot of them are IWC favourites, however it takes time for everything to fit into place.

In my eyes the big issue WWE has is that Cena/Wyatt ran out of steam weeks ago, Bryan is injured and only Triple H actually comes off like he cares about the angle with The Shield, Orton and Batista look bored. Plus CM Punk is a big miss as there's a lack of main event talent to aid the mass push of new guys.

However if WWE persevere I think by Summerslam the pieces can be in place for some of their best output in ages top to bottom.

I admit that I'm kind of bored right now. It's not just Bryan being out of action, as I was bored with WWE's direction prior to his injury. I'm happy that Bryan is champion, but the feud with Kane is a waste, and the booking has been absurd.

I'm thrilled that they are injecting some new blood into the programming, but I'm disappointed in the overall booking.

* Of course, I'm happy that the Shield and the Wyatts have become stars, but Shield/Evolution is the only feud in the company that has my interest right now. My interest in Cena/Bray died after that overbooked mess at Extreme Rules.

* I enjoy Adam Rose's entrances, but I want to see him do something substantial.

* Rusev bores me to tears, but at least Lana comes off as a star.

* I'm a Boliever.

* While Cesaro makes a ton of sense as a Heyman guy, I think they missed their chance to turn him face. People were dying to cheer this guy once the swing took off.

* Happy with the Usos work, but I want to see them transition into a serious feud...if it's Harper and Rowen, that's fine.

* Disgusted with the treatment of Sandow. I think he has what it takes to be special.

* The treatment of Ziggler is unbelievable. Another guy who has "it"...another guy the fans want to support, but WWE won't pull the trigger.

* I was never a Barrett guy, but he took this silly gimmick and made it work. I've become a fan.

* Not sure Alicia Fox deserves a push, but I respect that she's taking the ball she's been given and running with it. It's the first time I've found her remotely interesting.

* I still miss Punk. I need closure.

* The financial issues of the company are kind of looming over everything like a dark cloud.

Overall, I think it's just the post-Wrestlemania blahs. I'm expecting things to pick up as we begin the build towards SummerSlam.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Spoiler

* The Shield kicks off SmackDown with a promo on Evolution and Payback. Roman Reigns says Evolution will pay for putting him through the table on RAW.

* Cesaro vs. Kofi Kingston is next. Cesaro came out to a big pop with Paul Heyman. Cesaro gets the win and attacks Kofi after the match, hitting him with the Neutralizer while Heyman cheered him on.

* Paige vs. Tamina Snuka in a non-title match is next. Paige gets the win with her Scorpion Crosslock. Alicia Fox came out during the match and taunted Paige with the Divas Title belt. She tried to distract Paige to allow Tamina to get the win but it backfired.

* Xavier Woods vs. Bo Dallas is next. Bo comes out and cuts another cheesy promo about Bo-lieving. Bo gets the win with the Bo-dog.

* Los Matadores, El Torito, 3MB and Hornswoggle are out next. The match is Jinder Mahal vs. El Torito. Torito, without his tail still, gets the win.

* Jimmy Uso vs. Bray Wyatt in a Last Man Standing match will take place later.

* Paul Heyman comes out and reminds us that Brock Lesnar ended The Undertaker's Streak. Heyman joins commentary as Intercontinental Champion Bad News Barrett and United States Champion Sheamus come out for their match.

* Paul Heyman comes out and reminds us that Brock Lesnar ended The Undertaker's Streak. Heyman joins commentary as Intercontinental Champion Bad News Barrett and United States Champion Sheamus come out for their match. This match was described as a must-see brawl. There were big "Let's go Sheamus, Bad News Barrett" dueling chants. Sheamus got the win after a finishing sequence that was described as "amazing."

* Big E came out with an American flag and squashed Titus O'Neil. Before they began, Lana interrupted and cut a promo on Big E and America. They got huge heel heat and USA chants, according to our correspondent. She and Rusev watched the match from ringside.

* Adam Rose came out to his biggest pop yet, except for the UK, according to our correspondent. Rose went on to defeat Jack Swagger in a match and taunt Zeb Colter some more.

* Bray Wyatt vs. Jimmy Uso in a Last Man Standing match is next. This match gets the first CM Punk chants of the night. This was described as a good physical match. Wyatt destroyed Uso in front of the announce table and got the win to end SmackDown.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

I admit that I'm kind of bored right now. It's not just Bryan being out of action, as I was bored with WWE's direction prior to his injury. I'm happy that Bryan is champion, but the feud with Kane is a waste, and the booking has been absurd.

I'm thrilled that they are injecting some new blood into the programming, but I'm disappointed in the overall booking.

* Of course, I'm happy that the Shield and the Wyatts have become stars, but Shield/Evolution is the only feud in the company that has my interest right now. My interest in Cena/Bray died after that overbooked mess at Extreme Rules.

* I enjoy Adam Rose's entrances, but I want to see him do something substantial.

* Rusev bores me to tears, but at least Lana comes off as a star.

* I'm a Boliever.

* While Cesaro makes a ton of sense as a Heyman guy, I think they missed their chance to turn him face. People were dying to cheer this guy once the swing took off.

* Happy with the Usos work, but I want to see them transition into a serious feud...if it's Harper and Rowen, that's fine.

* Disgusted with the treatment of Sandow. I think he has what it takes to be special.

* The treatment of Ziggler is unbelievable. Another guy who has "it"...another guy the fans want to support, but WWE won't pull the trigger.

* I was never a Barrett guy, but he took this silly gimmick and made it work. I've become a fan.

* Not sure Alicia Fox deserves a push, but I respect that she's taking the ball she's been given and running with it. It's the first time I've found her remotely interesting.

* I still miss Punk. I need closure.

* The financial issues of the company are kind of looming over everything like a dark cloud.

Overall, I think it's just the post-Wrestlemania blahs. I'm expecting things to pick up as we begin the build towards SummerSlam.

Mostly all of this.

Eh, I have so much other wrestling to keep me interested. AIW and AAW are great. NJPW, while has been very good so far, was usually amazing around this time. CHIKARA is back so yay! ROH has me interested after the two supershows with NJPW and the fact that they're going live on PPV for the first time ever next with Kaz and Christopher Daniels. And PWG just made Kyle O'Reilly their World Champ so it should be a lot more fun to watch.

 

[Dr. Evil]

 

[TheNextNolan22]

 

[Hunter Rider]

I admit that I'm kind of bored right now. It's not just Bryan being out of action, as I was bored with WWE's direction prior to his injury. I'm happy that Bryan is champion, but the feud with Kane is a waste, and the booking has been absurd.

I'm thrilled that they are injecting some new blood into the programming, but I'm disappointed in the overall booking.

* Of course, I'm happy that the Shield and the Wyatts have become stars, but Shield/Evolution is the only feud in the company that has my interest right now. My interest in Cena/Bray died after that overbooked mess at Extreme Rules.

* I enjoy Adam Rose's entrances, but I want to see him do something substantial.

* Rusev bores me to tears, but at least Lana comes off as a star.

* I'm a Boliever.

* While Cesaro makes a ton of sense as a Heyman guy, I think they missed their chance to turn him face. People were dying to cheer this guy once the swing took off.

* Happy with the Usos work, but I want to see them transition into a serious feud...if it's Harper and Rowen, that's fine.

* Disgusted with the treatment of Sandow. I think he has what it takes to be special.

* The treatment of Ziggler is unbelievable. Another guy who has "it"...another guy the fans want to support, but WWE won't pull the trigger.

* I was never a Barrett guy, but he took this silly gimmick and made it work. I've become a fan.

* Not sure Alicia Fox deserves a push, but I respect that she's taking the ball she's been given and running with it. It's the first time I've found her remotely interesting.

* I still miss Punk. I need closure.

* The financial issues of the company are kind of looming over everything like a dark cloud.

Overall, I think it's just the post-Wrestlemania blahs. I'm expecting things to pick up as we begin the build towards SummerSlam.

I don't disagree in truth, the shows are flat right now without a doubt, I just think it is so much harder to book WWE than it is NJPW or ROH, anyone can book a bunch of good workers against each other if the only goal of the product is in-ring action, but WWE doesn't have that luxury.

I've bolded the points I think in particular are where they could improve, I left off Bryan/Kane as I felt it was a necessary evil while Evolution are feuding with The Shield, there just wasn't a good option for Bryan IMO.

I think Cesaro and Heyman are doing good work but it feels about a year too late, Cesaro should have been the Heyman guy the night Axel walked down the ramp, right now WWE took a guy to the point where the crowds were dying to get behind him, and then reverted him to being a fuill blown heel, leaving a degree of confusion from a lot of crowds. A proper Ziggler push would benefit the show simply because he's such a good performer. The Tag and Divas division are both suffering from the same issue, good champs, underutilized challengers.

The Network is a bust, it should never have included the PPV's.

 

[sweetre15]

I see a lot of negativity in this thread about current WWE and I think you can see the threads are moving slower, but in truth I'm not sure what people want them to do, they are pushing a whole tonne of new guys and a lot of them are IWC favourites, however it takes time for everything to fit into place.

I also see the usual NJPW/ROH wankfest but taking out my dislike of the overkill style of both promotions, surely common sense tells you their booking model simply does not work for mainstream wrestling, it never has and never will.

In my eyes the big issue WWE has is that Cena/Wyatt ran out of steam weeks ago, Bryan is injured and only Triple H actually comes off like he cares about the angle with The Shield, Orton and Batista look bored. Plus CM Punk is a big miss as there's a lack of main event talent to aid the mass push of new guys.

However if WWE persevere I think by Summerslam the pieces can be in place for some of their best output in ages top to bottom.

They should still work harder on actually building people up instead of making them wrestle cold matches and not get real promo time

 

[Mister J]

The Network is a bust, it should never have included the PPV's.

I thought that might be an issue early on. Really, the archives and original stuff is enough to justify the price tag (or somewhere near it). Tossing in the PPVs seemed like overkill; maybe a few weeks or so after, but live? It reads like the PPV model was broken. It's like giving away money.

I'm sure the balance of your post was well constructed and provocative, but that's really all I could speak to, given that I'm kinda soused at the moment.