Legend of Zelda Offical The Legend of Zelda Thread

[Timstuff]

I disagree. How do you blame Nintendo for MadWorld being mediocre? Or Dead Space Extraction getting no advertising? EA has the money to do it.

Madworld was bad because EA did not invest the money and talent necessary to make it AAA. Why would they do this? Because Nintendo has not given them reason to do otherwise. Madworld was mad on the cheap, and when you try to make a big game on a cheap budget you get a big cheap-o game. As for Deadspace, it probably did not have a big marketing campaign because EA did not think it was worth promoting heavily since they were likely not expecting very good sales.

I do agree they should have some more first party titles. But at the same time, why bother? They have a gold mine of 1st party franchises to go to. Star Fox, DK, Kirby, Pokemon, Pikmin. Then you take into account franchises like Earthbound and Kid Icarus that can be revived. The problem is they're just focusing on Mario, Zelda, and Metroid but I think that's a separate issue.

Old franchises aren't enough, though. Nintendo has platformers covered with Mario and Donkey Kong, a strong Fantasy adventure franchise with Zelda, a sci-fi adventure franchise with Metroid, and a sci-fi shoot-em-up with Starfox, but there's a lot of places where they're still weak. Nintendo hasn't had a viable shooter published under their marquee since Perfect Dark 10 years ago. Nintendo is still EXTREMELY reluctant about publishing 1st party M-rated games, and that's been a bad weakness of theirs for a long time.

I blame 3rd party developers for the lack of good third party games. It's not as if they've tried to make a hit that's worth it. Can you think of any good 3rd party Wii game that they tried to build up and had a strong marketing campaign to go with it? I can't. Third part developers don't try and you can't blame Nintendo for not making new IPs for that.

Again, if Nintendo was doing everything they could then they wouldn't be in this rut. If Nintendo wants top-shelf third party games on Wii, they need to start by publishing the kinds of games third parties think won't sell on Wii, giving them good budgets and putting their top talent behind them, and then making money off of them. A good place to start would be to make some M-rated games for hardcore gamers, because that's something that a lot of core gamers have given up on seeing Nintendo make (and core gamers happen to play lots of M-rated games).

I think Nintendo should be doing a little more crowd control when it comes to the amount of horrible shovel-ware released for the Wii. Sony and Microsoft are always conscious of their portfolio of games and try not to release too many bad games into their library each month/year. Nintendo on the otherhand seems to not give a **** about what random crap is released and put on store shelves to represent their console.

This is true. An an EGM article I read called "the Nintendo Seal of Quantity" I read pretty much said that with Nintendo there's pretty much no quality control for third parties. The illustration for the article was the Nintendo Seal of Quality with the words "of quality" being erased, and interestingly enough, Nintendo actually did that. The Official Seal of Quality was changed to being just the Official Seal around the time that Nintendo started focusing on casual games, probably at the behest of their legal department. Sony's standards on their older hardware tends to be on the lax side, but at least they HAVE standards and make an active effort to keep shovelware off of their newer systems (and their older ones, to a lesser extent), as does Microsoft.

 

[jacobed]

http://wii.ign.com/articles/105/1058479p1.html

Since this is a Zelda thread and not a Nintendo quality, I thought I'd post this.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Madworld was bad because EA did not invest the money and talent necessary to make it AAA. Why would they do this? Because Nintendo has not given them reason to do otherwise. Madworld was mad on the cheap, and when you try to make a big game on a cheap budget you get a big cheap-o game. As for Deadspace, it probably did not have a big marketing campaign because EA did not think it was worth promoting heavily since they were likely not expecting very good sales.

Sorry, but that excuse just doesn't cut it. You can't blame Nintendo for another companies failure with a game.

Old franchises aren't enough, though. Nintendo has platformers covered with Mario and Donkey Kong, a strong Fantasy adventure franchise with Zelda, a sci-fi adventure franchise with Metroid, and a sci-fi shoot-em-up with Starfox, but there's a lot of places where they're still weak. Nintendo hasn't had a viable shooter published under their marquee since Perfect Dark 10 years ago. Nintendo is still EXTREMELY reluctant about publishing 1st party M-rated games, and that's been a bad weakness of theirs for a long time.

The lack of M-rated games is very overrated. An M game is not necessary for success nor is it a guarantee. A game doesn't need to have blood and boobs to be mature anyway. KOTOR and Uncharted being good examples.

I believe their old franchises are enough because they have an incredible amount to go to. It's hard to get new IPs to take off so I don't blame Nintendo for not trying since they already have so many established first party franchises.

Nintendo hasn't produced a viable shooter? Metroid Prime ring any bells? Nintendo producing a full-fledged FPS is a futile effort anyway. That crowd is sticking to 360 and PS3. Any Wii FPS will be dismissed. People will just say "If it was on 360 or PS3, it wouldn't be worth playing." I know, I followed the Conduit and that's the reaction it got (it was a decent game though). Unfortunately, the CoD4 Wiiport is pretty good but it's dismissed b/c it's a port of a 2 year old game.

Again, if Nintendo was doing everything they could then they wouldn't be in this rut. If Nintendo wants top-shelf third party games on Wii, they need to start by publishing the kinds of games third parties think won't sell on Wii, giving them good budgets and putting their top talent behind them, and then making money off of them. A good place to start would be to make some M-rated games for hardcore gamers, because that's something that a lot of core gamers have given up on seeing Nintendo make (and core gamers happen to play lots of M-rated games).

No, core gamers play GOOD games. I'll play a good E game over a mediocre M game any day. Gears of War isn't good because you can put a chainsaw through an enemies neck and God of War isn't good because of the giant breasts on enemies. It's the gameplay that makes them good.

Blaming Nintendo for the struggles of 3rd party games is absolutely asinine and just the blame.

A Capcom head in France said that the 360 and PS3 are the future of gaming just because Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles didn't sell well (even though it's not been released in Japan yet). Maybe if Capcom didn't make a light gun game that rehashes games people already own, it'd sell well. I bought it (albeit for $30 on sale) because I want to experience those RE games in some way but can't tolerate the controls of said RE games. But the regular RE fan has no interest in it b/c they've already played the original games.

Capcom failed to realize light gun games are a niche game. Most of them aren't more than $30. So why should someone pay $50 for a light gun game that's a rehash of old games?

If Capcom wants to make a hit for the Wii, give us an enhanced remake of RE2. Not a slightly upgraded port the GC got, and not a slightly upgraded port of that. A full enhanced remake. I guarantee you it'd sell. It could be a killer app for the Wii but of course you'd still have the haters deriding it since it's just a remake.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/105/1058479p1.html

Since this is a Zelda thread and not a Nintendo quality, I thought I'd post this.

I won't believe it's coming out this year until it's on a store shelf. Or in my case, available on Amazon.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I don´t know if you guys already posted this but...

You are now less than 365 days away from a new console Zelda game. Nintendo CEO Satoru Iwata confirmed to Japan's Asahi Shimbun daily today that the Wii Zelda sequel, first revealed at last year's E3, will be released this year.

It looks like the next Zelda will come out this year....at least in Japan

 

[Timstuff]

No, core gamers play GOOD games. I'll play a good E game over a mediocre M game any day. Gears of War isn't good because you can put a chainsaw through an enemies neck and God of War isn't good because of the giant breasts on enemies. It's the gameplay that makes them good.

You are using the kind of logic Nintendo uses to justify itself. "An M-rating doesn't automatically = a good game" is no excuse for Nintendo's almost complete disregard for games made specifically for adults. An R-rating doesn't mean a movie will automatically be good, but the fact of the matter is that there are LOTS of great R-rated movies that would not be as good if they were PG-13.

The way you talk about "boobs and guts don't make a good game" almost makes it sound like you've never even played an M-rated game. God of War would not be God of War if the enemies bled skittles. Fallout 3's dark, grimy atmosphere and dismembering critical hits would not have translated well to a T-rating at all, nor would the black humor and side quests which cover a colorful array of topics ranging from nuclear genocide to slavery to cannibalism. You can't just say "E and T-rated games are enough, because you don't need an M-rating to make a good game." Variety is the spice of life, and because Nintendo has shut out M-rated games from their first party developers, they have shut out a lot of possibilities for games.

Also, Metroid Prime ain't a shooter. It's an action adventure game with a first person camera, but it's not a shooter outside of the loosest sense of the term. If the only criteria for being an FPS is being in first person and having shooting, then Oblivion and Fallout 3 would be FPS, even though they are both firmly rooted in the RPG genre. Nitnendo has offered nothing worthwhile to FPS fans since the N64, and they are doing nothing to change that. Geist and Metroid Prime 2's slapdash split screen multiplayer mode don't cut it.

Overall, it seems to me like you are willing to blame everyone except for Nintendo for the Wii's shortcomings, and that's exactly what I used to do when I was a Gamecube-only Nintendo fan. Third parties won't publish top shelf games for it, so you blame the third parties instead of blaming Nintendo for not offering any incentives. Nintendo refuses to make games for adult core gamers, and you say it's because the audience for those games are too stuck up and elitist to give Nintendo a chance anyway. Nintendo refuses to publish M-rated games, and you say it's because M-rated games are overrated and Nintendo is the only one of the big three who realizes it. That's exactly how me and countless other defensive Nintendo fans would operate back in the Gamecube days, but eventually I cracked and bought a PS2, and ever since then my Nintendo fandom has lied with their legacy consoles rather than their current form.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

You are using the kind of logic Nintendo uses to justify itself. "An M-rating doesn't automatically = a good game" is no excuse for Nintendo's almost complete disregard for games made specifically for adults. An R-rating doesn't mean a movie will automatically be good, but the fact of the matter is that there are LOTS of great R-rated movies that would not be as good if they were PG-13.

The way you talk about "boobs and guts don't make a good game" almost makes it sound like you've never even played an M-rated game. God of War would not be God of War if the enemies bled skittles. Fallout 3's dark, grimy atmosphere and dismembering critical hits would not have translated well to a T-rating at all, nor would the black humor and side quests which cover a colorful array of topics ranging from nuclear genocide to slavery to cannibalism. You can't just say "E and T-rated games are enough, because you don't need an M-rating to make a good game." Variety is the spice of life, and because Nintendo has shut out M-rated games from their first party developers, they have shut out a lot of possibilities for games.

Also, Metroid Prime ain't a shooter. It's an action adventure game with a first person camera, but it's not a shooter outside of the loosest sense of the term. If the only criteria for being an FPS is being in first person and having shooting, then Oblivion and Fallout 3 would be FPS, even though they are both firmly rooted in the RPG genre. Nitnendo has offered nothing worthwhile to FPS fans since the N64, and they are doing nothing to change that. Geist and Metroid Prime 2's slapdash split screen multiplayer mode don't cut it.

Overall, it seems to me like you are willing to blame everyone except for Nintendo for the Wii's shortcomings, and that's exactly what I used to do when I was a Gamecube-only Nintendo fan. Third parties won't publish top shelf games for it, so you blame the third parties instead of blaming Nintendo for not offering any incentives. Nintendo refuses to make games for adult core gamers, and you say it's because the audience for those games are too stuck up and elitist to give Nintendo a chance anyway. Nintendo refuses to publish M-rated games, and you say it's because M-rated games are overrated and Nintendo is the only one of the big three who realizes it. That's exactly how me and countless other defensive Nintendo fans would operate back in the Gamecube days, but eventually I cracked and bought a PS2, and ever since then my Nintendo fandom has lied with their legacy consoles rather than their current form.

I'm not doing a point-by-point counter-argument of your post since I'm just repeating the same things so I'm going to keep it short so we can move on to Zelda.

First of all, it's stupid to blame Nintendo for 3rd party failures. They should not need to pave the way for them and hold their hands as they walk along it. They need to make a GOOD game and ADVERTISE it. And when you don't do one or both, the game's sales will suffer. They shouldn't be allowed to shrug their shoulders and then point the finger at Nintendo.

What incentive does Nintendo have to make a FPS? That audience has become entrenched in the 360/PS3. You know it, I know it, Nintendo knows it. Any FPS they make will just be derided for not being Halo or MW2.

I have no interest in continuing this discussion here. It's pretty clear you just hate Nintendo now and are making up reasons like it's their fault 3rd party games don't do well.

 

[Timstuff]

Don't worry, eventually you'll see the light just as I did, or you'll start having paranoid episodes while staring at the Sony aisle at Wal-Mart and shouting "This is all your fault!", and then go home and cry yourself to sleep after reading the newest delayed release date of Twilight Prin-- err-- I mean, FUN!

 

[SuperHeroHype]

Btw, when the next Zelda comes out, you won't see any updates on SHH for a week =)

 

[Grommers]

Btw, when the next Zelda comes out, you won't see any updates on SHH for a week =)

If you were a true zelda fan it would be only 3 days...cause thats 72 hours of play time.

 

[SuperHeroHype]

If you were a true zelda fan it would be only 3 days...cause thats 72 hours of play time.

Not everyone can just drop everything and play 72 hours straight.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Btw, when the next Zelda comes out, you won't see any updates on SHH for a week =)

Now I won't feel bad for ditching the Hype over Metal Gear and Zelda

 

[crazy monkey]

This reported on today at www.zeldainformer.com , regarding Zelda Wii:

"Now, normally I wouldn't post about a rumor because most the time it's just that, however, there is some reason to believe the rumors we have inside. They come from a popular Japanese message board called 2chan, which is somewhat similar in style to our English-based 4chan. What is interesting about rumors at this Japanese site is more often then not, they turn out to be true. Not willing to believe that? Well lets look at what 2Chan has leaked over the years that turned out to be true.

"First off, they were the first people to break the news and story for every single Kingdom Hearts game ever made, long before it was publicly released. They released all the news for Metal Gear Solid 4, Resident Evil 4 and 5, and pretty much every Square Enix RPG ever made. Interestingly enough, back in 2003, they also broke The Wind Waker's story roughly two months before release, and no, prerelease copies were apparently not out yet stateside. So the question needs to be asked: If the community there has been right so many times with rumors, then why can't they be right this time around? They very well could be, so step inside and see what was revealed - as confirmed by one of our own translators.

• "The game will be vary from the dungeon field dungeon method we are accustomed too (nothing new, Eiji Aonuma confirmed that last year).
• You will be able to select right or left handed at the start, and Link will be left or right handed based on your selection
• The gameplay and basic mechanics are complete.
• They are currently polishing up the story and Characters.
• One of the characters they are working on is a innkeeper in Link's home village who has a son that looks up to Link.
• The girl in the art is not the Master Sword, and it appears the Master Sword will not be in the game.
• The girls name from the painting could possibly be Adelle, Adella, or Aderu.
• She is not with you throughout the game like Ezlo and Midna.
• The face in the painting of her is not her real face. It's not fully elaborated on much, but it does say that it was a place holder concept art piece.(assuming the entire art itself was just concept work)
• Link's sword is highly unique in this game, and will have several unlockable abilities. Adelle (or whatever her final name becomes) communicates with you through this sword.
• There will be horseback combat. Epona will avoid obstacles automatically.
• The models for 3 significant characters in the game have been touched up, but no they are not Zelda or Ganondorf. (google translate gives rough names of Link, Gorons, and Epona, but our translator said it's not specifically mentioned)
• The idea of this version of Link also being The Hero of Time has been highly considered, and may already be implemented.
• Time travel plays a roll in the game.
• The game takes place in more then just Hyrule, and may possibly not be Hyrule at all.

"So there is a lot of stuff to digest there. Again, remember to always take this with a grain of salt, but the fact it comes from a place where so many other rumors turn out to be true does make you wonder. The Hero of Time's return could propose a sequel to Majora's Mask, meanwhile time travel returning makes since if it's the same character. Could also explain the statement last year from Nintendo that this is the oldest Link yet. The fact the game could also be more then Hyrule, or a new land all together, could play well into the follow up to Majora's Mask. If you recall, Link was on a journey to find a lost friend, presumably Navi, so who knows where that may have lead him."

Just thought I'd post it for those that haven't seen this yet. Nothing too exciting, but thought-provoking. Discuss away.

 

[Reek]

regardless, im droppin the money for a wii specifically for zelda. and i had the idea few pages back....Link running in a dungeon, jumping off a cliff, nothing but lava or something below him....pulls out the hookshot and nails a target, batman style...spiderman style too...

PLEASE

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I hope the handedness part is true. Link should always be left handed.

 

[Grommers]

Very interesting, all very plausible stuff. I guess gorons will be coming back! Hopefully it is hero of time. I just beat OoT and its just such a good game, currently playing through majoras mask. Perhaps it can span over different countries. (Hyrule, Termina, etc.) It'd be of epic size. Would allow for goron clans etc. Would be really cool....the possibilities would be endless.

 

[Majik1387]

I'm liking the sounds of it.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I'd be interesting if this is the game where the Master Sword is created.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

A couple of things from that though... If it is the Hero of Time, which would be awesome, why wouldn't he have the master sword? Also, I like the idea of it being 'the oldest link yet'. Maybe they'll actually have voice overs this time around?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

A couple of things from that though... If it is the Hero of Time, which would be awesome, why wouldn't he have the master sword? Also, I like the idea of it being 'the oldest link yet'. Maybe they'll actually have voice overs this time around?

Link left the Master Sword in the Temple of Time at the end of Ocarina of Time.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Ah yes, of course... and i've just remembered he didnt have it in majoras either.

 

[Mogwai]

those rumors sound great.

 

[Image]

The Legend of Zelda is the truth!!!! Twilight Princess however I havent been not liking it. Almost done with playing Spirit Tracks. I guess I should hurry with Twilight before this new one. Would hate to not beat it.

 

[Reek]

TP is epic. bottom line.

 

[Timstuff]

It was decent, but it came out a year too late and also I felt like it was very much lacking in terms of side quests, since there was a massive open world but not a lot to do aside from the main quest. Also, there were tons of items that were useless once you got out of the dungeon you found them in, and I'm guessing those were the dungeons that Nintendo spent an extra year adding so they could release the game at the same time as Wii. Also, the in-game economy was broken thanks that stupid rupee-sucking suit and the unlimited flow of rupees the game threw at you to fuel it.

Another thing that severely irked me about Twilight Princess was the lack of voice overs. I put up with it in Wind Waker since Nintendo was still new to the whole disc-based-medium thing, but by the time TP came out, the text-based dialogue felt very dated, as did the midi music. The songs were fairly well composed, but it felt very underwhelming and dated to hear a bunch of synth tones making it, when most other big budget games at the time were using recordings of real instruments or at least using top-tier mixed music.

Overall, it was a decent game, but it should have had higher production values and come out a year sooner. I just hope that with this new game Nintendo will turn over a new leaf and have voiceovers and a recorded score, and make sure that the game's world feels more consistent.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I pretty much agree with everything Timstuff has said, but I also feel that Twilight Princess was too much of a rehash of Ocarina of Time. All the other Zelda games had something to it that made them feel unique.

Twilight Princess on the other hand really didn't. It felt like a Ratchet & Clank game in terms of "Don't fix what's broken" game play in that sure it's really, really good. And you enjoy it a lot to where you buy the new iterations, but it's still been there, done that.