Official DD Thread

[Spider-Jay420]

Black Panther is chasing me away, and I've been reading DD since Kevin Smith and Quesada relaunched it.

Breaks in my run be damned, I couldn't care less about BP, and I'm not sticking around for this crap. If there was some kind of build up, or Matt asked him to do it, that's a different story. I'm not even gonna try the next issue....and I'm not really interested in Matt's return, to be honest.

 

[kguillou]

I've got a question tho. Most of Matt's troubles this past decade have stemmed from the fact that he was outted as Daredevil and his enemies have been attacking his personal life. Now that Matt has caused all this Shadowland ruckus and everyone is NY knows it....wont his life just turn to s*** again when he inevitably returns? I mean unless DD leaves NY permanently, i dont see how this is gonna reboot the character like Quesada claims. Dont get me wrong, by no means do i want a "One More Day" for DD, but....Shadowland couldnt have been good for Matt's public persona.

 

[BlackSymbiote]

Anyone else think that when Daredevil finally reclaims the title that Marvel will slap a new #1 on it anyway?

 

[hippie_hunter]

Anyone else think that when Daredevil finally reclaims the title that Marvel will slap a new #1 on it anyway?

They better not. I prefer seeing Daredevil #500 as opposed to Daredevil #1. Avengers, Fantastic Four, the Amazing Spider-Man, the Incredible Hulk, Invincible Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Uncanny X-Men, Daredevil, and X-Factor should never be relaunched with a new #1.

And if you ask me they should properly renumber Wolverine, Deadpool, and the Punisher as well .

 

[DarKush]

I think that there is a market for Black Panther if you just give the character a break, put him in other books such as Avengers and Fantastic Four, and then after a couple of years give him a new book. And even then, that's debatable, the previous Black Panther book debuted to good numbers and was originally sustainable only due to gimmicks like having JRJR appear for the first arc, tying in with Civil War and Secret Invasion, the marriage with Storm, joining the Fantastic Four, etc.


I don't even think that the first issue is going to sell that well. People are tired of the Panther and the only people who are going to buy this are the Daredevil diehards who don't want an interruption in their numbering while waiting for Daredevil to return (which will happen) and the few Black Panther diehards.

I have my misgivings about BP taking on this role because I don't think it does much to advance his brand, however I disagree that the first issue will be a flop. In fact, I think there will be some curiosity about it, now after that, there perhaps will be declining interest.

I think some DD and BP fans will buy this just to see what the first issue is about, as will other fans. Who's to say if they will stay or not, until the final numbers come in for the second book?

That being said, I don't get why 'people are tired of the Panther'. It's not like the dude is overexposed. Heck, he hasn't really even been Black Panther for a good year or so.

I also take exception that his books were flops. The latest two were cancelled ultimately, but after roughly 50-60 issue runs, that's not too bad IMO. It wasn't like they got cancelled after their first issues or even 6 or 12 issues, that's more the flop category. As it stands BP has a small audience, but it seems a committed one, and Marvel is trying to find a way to expand that audience. I don't think making T'Challa the new MWF is the best way to go, but I am glad that Marvel is trying to do something with the character. I do agree that putting him in the Avengers/Secret Avengers or having him lead an Avengers team would probably be best for long-term publishing success. The BP as gritty urban avenger has been done already by Christopher Priest, particularly during the Kasper Cole run.

I thought Moon Knight would've made a better choice for the new MWF.

 

[hippie_hunter]

People don't give a damn about Black Panther due to years of horrible stories. It has nothing to do with overexposure, it has everything to do with Reginald Hudlin ruining the character.

The first recent Black Panther ongoing lasted as long as it did only due to gimmicks such as having John Romita Jr. on the opening arc, having T'Challa marry Storm, Civil War, joining the Fantastic Four, etc. The second recent Black Panther ongoing was cancelled rather quickly.

 

[DarKush]

Hudlin wasn't the greatest writer, but I don't think he was as horrible as some comic book fans believe he was. I think that Hudlin was a lightning rod but he was not the writer when the most recent BP series got canceled, that was Jonathan Maberry. JM was about 6 books in when the series got canceled. Now was that enough time for him to put his mark on the book in a way that rippled throughout fandom? That's a debate. However, I've seen some sales numbers that have Hudlin's work selling more than Maberry's. Also, Hudlin's Flags of Our Fathers seemed well received. Despite his flaws, I think RH has a great respect for the character, and even though I felt at times he was a Gary Stu, I've liked RH's take on Panther more than the impotent T'Challa that JM writes.

In any event, if Hudlin was the sole cause of BP's decline then why hasn't there been a resurgence of interest now that Maberry's been the primary writer of the character for at least a year? JM's done the last arc of the BP comic ("Power"), DoomWar, an Age of Heroes one-shot, and now the ongoing Klaws of the Panther. Hudlin is long gone. David Liss is the chief T'Challa/Panther writer now. Perhaps its time to move on from the Hudlin bashing and give DL a chance, and BP a chance.

Once again, what you call gimmicks, I call smart marketing. I wish they had put BP in more of those big events during Hudlin's run. I've been reading Priest's work recently and he also had those crossover events, had lots of guest stars, and the 'stunt' Storm appearance. There are more similiarities between Hudlin and Priests works than I had been led to believe after reading about all the crying and gnashing of teeth over RH when I got into BP during his run.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Maberry had to continue on with what Hudlin did.

Also, the Black Panther: The Man Without Fear sucked.

 

[DarKush]

To be honest, I'm not sure if JM had to continue what Hudlin did. I don't know how much Marvel management supported or wanted T'Challa out of the BP habit. Or why DoomWar couldn't end with T'Challa reclaiming his mantle. I mean, he stepped down in order to prepare for his battle with Doom. After Doom was defeated, I don't see why he didn't resume being Panther. So, I'm not certain how much leeway Hudlin or JM had with the New BP storyline. Now, if JM had the leeway on the book, then what's the excuse? Besides, JM spent more time writing and developing Shuri than he did T'Challa.

As for Panther's first outing as the new MWF. I thought it was okay. It was well written, the artwork was decent, and Vlad the Impaler has potential. I still don't care for the idea. To me, its a disservice to T'Challa to run off to HK instead of staying and solving Wakanda's problems, but hey, Marvel gets what it wants. I don't think the book sucks, but the first issue didn't bowl me over either to be honest.

 

[RockSP]

Black Panther is chasing me away, and I've been reading DD since Kevin Smith and Quesada relaunched it.

Breaks in my run be damned, I couldn't care less about BP, and I'm not sticking around for this crap. If there was some kind of build up, or Matt asked him to do it, that's a different story. I'm not even gonna try the next issue....and I'm not really interested in Matt's return, to be honest.

Matt asked him to do it.

I thought Moon Knight would've made a better choice for the new MWF.

Definitely would've made more sense than Panther.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Matt asked him to do it.

Yeah.....when it was physically impossible to do so. Continuity folks

 

[Comics N' Toons]

I have a ? about the new BENDIS RUN COLLECTION (Daredevil ULTIMATE COLLECTION books)

sense it is a lot of pages and is softcover, HOW IS THE BINDING... Do the pages fall out or is it a strong spine/book?

 

[Drz]

Strong spine. I loved reading that stuff, since the Omnibuses are on such a crazy price.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Strong spine. I loved reading that stuff, since the Omnibuses are on such a crazy price.

Thanks,

I just wondered as my copy of THE COMPLETE BONE fell apart. Also I had about 2 copies of The Long Halloween that the spine gave out on. Then I got a 3rd and haven't had problems so far

 

[roach]

I've got a question tho. Most of Matt's troubles this past decade have stemmed from the fact that he was outted as Daredevil and his enemies have been attacking his personal life. Now that Matt has caused all this Shadowland ruckus and everyone is NY knows it....wont his life just turn to s*** again when he inevitably returns? I mean unless DD leaves NY permanently, i dont see how this is gonna reboot the character like Quesada claims. Dont get me wrong, by no means do i want a "One More Day" for DD, but....Shadowland couldnt have been good for Matt's public persona.

yeah well pretty much everyone in the world knew Osborn was the Green Goblin and still put him in charge of Shield after he shot the skrull queen

 

[kguillou]

I know but...i feel like as long as the genie's out of the bottle, Matt really cant have any sense of normalcy in his life anymore. The public may be fooled but his enemies know, and as long as they do then i would imagine his life would be hell no?

 

[NightBeetle]

Daredevil: Reborn #1 Preview

 

[Drz]

I *finally* read all of Miller's DD! I posted my thoughts on another thread, but thought i'd share:


Daredevil by Frank Miller & Klaus Janson volumes 1-3:

Ah yeah now we're getting to the A-material right here, having already read Daredevil: Born Again and Daredevil: The Man Withouth Fear it was nice to finally read the actual first stories by Miller on DD that made him so popular to begin with. Volume 1 kicks off with the Spider-Man issues drawn by Miller and the first stories in volume 1 are actually written by Roger Mckenzie, but you can see the beginning of Miller's story telling artistic decisions, but the first issues just have too much that 70s style narration on almost everything, but nowhere near as bad as it is in Tomb of Dracula series. When Miller and Janson kick off their story arc with the introduction of Elektra, you can see this is Miller at his most Millerist there is. Stunning views of the city are drawn, beatiful women, people smoking, criminals scheming and plotting, with Kingpin getting very tons of attention as he is treated as *the* villain over the course of the story, you got Miller using his weird slang and honestly alot of the action scenes are pretty much the best i've seen from Miller. Elektra's introduction not only kicks off the new love interests for Matt, you also get to see Miller fleshing out not only Hell's Kitchen but Matt's own past gets fleshed out with the introduction of Stick, Daredevil losing his radar senses for a while, gosh you know i could just list all the things i overly enjoyed and loved on these 3 volumes. I mean the page count for each volume was close to 250 pages each, but i read these volumes in 2 days with such ease. Great dialogue, not too much Miller like narration (tho yes, we do get DD compare Hell Kitchen to a woman, and boy did i laugh), great villains such as Kirigi, 3 awesome fights between Daredevil and Bullseye along with Kingpin being the most ruthless cunning criminal lord there is, you also see Ben Urich and even Fogey standout as great citizens who stood up againts the corruption. Oh and Turk is obviously the greatest criminal Matt has ever faced!

If you're an obvious Miller fan, get it. If you love superhero vigilante comics that don't symbolize american politics like Miller's Batman always does, get it. Honestly this is flatout great vigilante superheroics. I guess i could just squeeze this fact in: the 3rd volume has bunch of short stories included after Miller's last DD issue which was flatout awesome, one last talk with Daredevil and his nemesis! So yeah the short stories are stuff like "what if DD was an agent of SHIELD" and a Kingpin centric story that deals with Kingpin and his wife Vanessa, but i gotta admit i felt underwhelmed by these short stories after being so much spoiled by the actual ongoings. I also gotta love how the whole japanese culture was used here with ninjas and all, since i also had hype backlash upon my experience with Miller's Ronin story.

 

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