Official Green Lantern News & Discussion Thread - Part 3

[redhawk23]

Main point is that Batman can only fight with heroes with actual powers because of writers. He has zero shot against them in a logical matchup.

A writer actually had Batman beat Superman....'nuff said.

In a logic based world only Batman would exist. He wins by default.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

That's true.

 

[craigdbfan]

It really is.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

In fact, Batman exists in a shared universe. He's on teams with these people, he fights the same enemies as these people. That pretty much requires that he be able to operate on their level--so yes, it is not enough that Batman is cool in his own book. The same goes for any character who has such a role in the larger sandbox. It's the same reason I expect any Leaguer to hold his or her own against the others--if not necessarily in a physical contest. As a team, they are all required to have their particular talents that can be brought to bear against powerful enemies.

That demands that Batman doesn't suddenly become ineffectual when he's looking at Superman instead of Darkseid, and the same goes for Superman looking at Batman instead of Lex Luthor.

There's the problem. Batman shouldn't be in the same universe any more than Jonah Hex should. In a world with those other heroes, Batman isn't needed. Because he is ineffectual compared to them.

I think I've heard enough Batfans claim Batman can "defeat" (there...that better? ) every single hero in the universe to know they require more than Batman being "integral/important to the team" or "hold his own". They need him to be the supreme hero that can wipe everyone else out if he wants to. He's too popular to be a sidekick....so the writers have to go to work and make him unbeatable....while any other hero he fights will turn into a moron.

http://judgescourt.deviantart.com/art/Superman-vs-Batman-39965852

The interesting thing about Batman fans is how they claim to dislike Superman because he's invincible and how much they favor "realism". ...But then with their next breath they'll claim Batman can defeat Superman.

In a logic based world only Batman would exist. He wins by default.

That's the main reason Batman should exist in his own universe (with maybe Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, and other lesser heroes). He's logic based and the others aren't.

In the universe he does exist in, he is the least realistic of all super heroes. The type of villains that run around in OUR world would take out a Batman in about two weeks. So as unrealistic as he is in our universe....amp that up by 100 in the DC universe. If any of the super villains did buy into this idea that Batman is the supreme being on the planet...Bats is going bye bye. (I would just trick the Flash into believing it and that Batman was coming to kill him. Batman would be eating his breakfast one second and sinking to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean bound head to toe with duct tape...naked... one second later. "Plan" your way out of that one! )

That's why the JLA comic is so silly compared to the Batman comic to me. The Avengers has a similar problem with Capt America...but at least they don't have to pretend Cap can defeat every hero on the planet. So I can buy that Cap would be useful for his leadership skills. Lord help the Capt America character if he ever becomes their most popular hero at some point. Suddenly we would have Cap defeating the Hulk and Thor. Popularity can be a curse.

 

[Saint]

There's the problem.

I will never agree that Batman should exist in his own universe, so it would be pointless to take this any further.

I think I've heard enough Batfans claim Batman can "defeat" (there...that better? ) every single hero in the universe to know they require more than Batman being "integral/important to the team" or "hold his own".

That's nice, but I don't care about what you've heard from "bat fans" or what you think of their arguments. You're not responding to the content of my posts, you're responding to some imaginary caricature you have of my argument.

I don't really care to discuss your imaginary caricature, so have fun with yourself, I guess.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I will never agree that Batman should exist in his own universe, so it would be pointless to take this any further.

This. I'm already tolerating the fact that he's in his own universe in the movies. He should never be taken out of the mainstream DC universe in the comics

 

[RoughNTumble]

I can confirm batman belongs in the DCU

 

[Saint]

Though I would not be opposed to a mature readers Elseworlds series, like Punisher's Max series.

 

[KalMart]

There's the problem. Batman shouldn't be in the same universe any more than Jonah Hex should. In a world with those other heroes, Batman isn't needed. Because he is ineffectual compared to them.

I think I've heard enough Batfans claim Batman can "defeat" (there...that better? ) every single hero in the universe to know they require more than Batman being "integral/important to the team" or "hold his own". They need him to be the supreme hero that can wipe everyone else out if he wants to. He's too popular to be a sidekick....so the writers have to go to work and make him unbeatable....while any other hero he fights will turn into a moron.

http://judgescourt.deviantart.com/art/Superman-vs-Batman-39965852

The interesting thing about Batman fans is how they claim to dislike Superman because he's invincible and how much they favor "realism". ...But then with their next breath they'll claim Batman can defeat Superman.


That's the main reason Batman should exist in his own universe (with maybe Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, and other lesser heroes). He's logic based and the others aren't.

In the universe he does exist in, he is the least realistic of all super heroes. The type of villains that run around in OUR world would take out a Batman in about two weeks. So as unrealistic as he is in our universe....amp that up by 100 in the DC universe. If any of the super villains did buy into this idea that Batman is the supreme being on the planet...Bats is going bye bye. (I would just trick the Flash into believing it and that Batman was coming to kill him. Batman would be eating his breakfast one second and sinking to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean bound head to toe with duct tape...naked... one second later. "Plan" your way out of that one! )

That's why the JLA comic is so silly compared to the Batman comic to me. The Avengers has a similar problem with Capt America...but at least they don't have to pretend Cap can defeat every hero on the planet. So I can buy that Cap would be useful for his leadership skills. Lord help the Capt America character if he ever becomes their most popular hero at some point. Suddenly we would have Cap defeating the Hulk and Thor. Popularity can be a curse.

Logically, Batman cannot defeat these powered superheroes...but it makes for better storytelling when he does.

 

[craigdbfan]

Re watched the trailer and boy are the effects amazing. Reynolds is seriously perfect as Hal. The Guardians. Its all very beautiful and ethereal.

You can really see that Campbell was mainly a reader back from 1964 when he picked Ryan. The Hal from that era is who resembled him the most. IMO

 

[RoughNTumble]

why do people keep mentioning 'the guardians?' They aren't in the trailer

 

[craigdbfan]

why do people keep mentioning 'the guardians?' They aren't in the trailer

You mustn't be afraid to see a little better, darling

 

[KalMart]

 

[RoughNTumble]

holy crap, I watched the trailer like a gazillion times, and never even noticed them!

 

[Lone]

I didn't notice the Millenium Falcon was in there too. Those sneaky sons of *****es!!

 

[craigdbfan]

ILM hacked Sony Imagworks files.

 

[Lone]

I swear Batman is making the troll face there.

 

[lixdexia]

i love that the op of that page used it to illustrate how batman can be beaten...even though he actually won that fight

 

[craigdbfan]

I swear Batman is making the troll face there.

 

[Mr. Earle]

That's the main reason Batman should exist in his own universe (with maybe Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, and other lesser heroes). He's logic based and the others aren't.

Ok, i think we're done here.

Though I would not be opposed toY a mature readers Elseworlds series, like Punisher's Max series.

Yes, a comic book should be mature and realistic. That's what people are buying them for.

Hey, if someone doesnt like Batman interracting with other heroes he can stick to the main Batman book and ignore the rest. Its easy.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Jordan certainly didn’t hit him while he wasn’t looking.
If anything Batman grabbed Jordan from behind, twice! Batman was looking right at him when he got hit.

Spoiler

The Corps are about to take off to fight Parallax who is infecting everyone on Earth and needs to be stopped now!
Paranoid Batman decides (understandably) he needs an explanation, and grabs Jordan with his little Batarang.
Giving him an ultimatum - “as long as I’m standing, you’re not doing anything”

Which Jordon fsss' away, and is about to take off again!

Then Batman grabs him again!
From behind...
And the ultimatum is answered.....

.....Batman no longer standing!

Seriously, holding a GL with a rope?
Parallax is killing people and Batman demands an explanation.
And "herp derp batman believes in darkness and fear". No he does NOT!

See what i'm talking about? Johns' stupid writing. He has admitted that he doesnt like Batman very much and he sure as hell cant write him well. Morrison has said the same thing about WW but he knows his limits and thus only uses her sparingly and in non offensive ways. In fact he's very respectful of her and gives her some really nice moments (although they re few) instead of ignoring her.

 

[Breogan]

Seriously, holding a GL with a rope?
Parallax is killing people and Batman demands an explanation.
And "herp derp batman believes in darkness and fear". No he does NOT!

See what i'm talking about? Johns' stupid writing.

Right cause Batman never uses a Batarang and rope, Geoff Johns just made that up.
And his M.O. is s never contingent on having all the explanations and info before going ahead.
And no Batman doesn’t believe in using Darkness and Fear as a weapon, Johns just made that up too.

 

[Saint]

Right cause Batman never uses a Batarang and rope, Geoff Johns just made that up.
And no Batman doesn’t believe in using Darkness and Fear as a weapon, Johns just made that up too.

He uses it, but he does not, as Jordan says "Believe in darkness and fear." Batman's a character that runs on righteousness and will, and if he believes in anything, it's justice. That said, I expect Jordan to have a skewed idea of Batman's character, so it's okay that he thought something that was obviously wrong (just as wrong as what Batman thought of him, incidentally).

And yeah, Batman using a rope and Hal Jordan was silly. I love Geoff Johns, but unless Batman is stroking out, he's not going to use a rope on a guy with a power ring. Maybe Johns just did it because it looked cool for that last page, I dunno.

Not a big deal, though--it was Jordan's book and Batman had his role in it. Not the best Batman story, but since it wasn't a Batman story, I give it a pass. I don't mind Batman being a jerk to Hal Jordan; in fact, at that point I think it makes sense; in Batman's mind, Jordan lost the fight that Batman has faced his whole life. He was proof that even good men can be turned bad by tragedy.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Oh my God. Batman is the DARK Knight. He uses the Bat persona to instill FEAR into Gotham's criminals.

Batman uses that rope to open doors and travel 20 feet. They're disposable to him. He used in that tradition. It was just to get his attention and delay him.


If you Batfans are gonna be so blind about the facts and start insulting one of the biggest Green Lantern writers in the mags history then maybe you guys should stick to the Bat Forums.




This is the Green Lantern forum and we like Johns.


EDIT --- Oh and Saint at least you backed up what you thought instead of trashing the man.

 

[Breogan]

He uses it, but he does not, as Jordan says "Believe in darkness and fear." Batman's a character that runs on righteousness and will, .

Oh please, He uses darkness and fear as a weapon, he believes in it's power to control others.

That’s totally his M.O. And this story brings it to light. And contrasts it to Jordan who uses light and unpredictability, going in without a plan. For better or worse, the opposite of everything Batman is.
He’s just showing how they are different and what works for one isn’t going to work for the other.