Official Green Lantern News & Discussion Thread - Part 4

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This is WB's own fault for forcing yet another ****** 3D conversion the movie didn't need.

Audiences have already gotten wise to the 3D gimmick. Which is exactly what it is. Mostly all because of Avatar. It's so freaking ridiculous. Spending all that extra money to make the movie darker and look like ****. It's pointless.

No secret that the production and visuals have been rushed. The marketing campaign has been weak. Where is all the epic space opera marketing? It's not here.

3Dboxofficeand3Dfilmrelease.png


The trend over the last four years has been that 3D films have had a growing popularity (even before Avatar). I don't know where you are getting your info that audiences have already gotten wise to the 3D gimmick.
 
The trend over the last four years has been that 3D films have had a growing popularity (even before Avatar). I don't know where you are getting your info that audiences have already gotten wise to the 3D gimmick.

It's when it's bad and rushed that they react accordingly, like with Clash Of The Titans.
 
People need to know the difference between "Filming in 3D" and "Post production 3D"
 
People need to know the difference between "Filming in 3D" and "Post production 3D"

Post-3D can be very good if the right kind of time/money and care is taken to go with a good process. But obviously, the emphasis is on charging more per ticket. I think that the more 'real 3D' and 3D shot movies that come out, the more that people will notice and react to the sub-standard post-processed ones, which may cause studios to rethink what they settle for.
 
It's when it's bad and rushed that they react accordingly, like with Clash Of The Titans.

I'm not going to say that a $491 million worldwide box office take on a film that made only $41 million 30 years ago (approximately $99 million in today's dollars) was bad, nor will I blame it on 3D.
 
I'm not going to say that a $491 million worldwide box office take on a film that made only $41 million 30 years ago (approximately $99 million in today's dollars) was bad, nor will I blame it on 3D.

I was talking about the reaction to its 3D conversion, and how it could easily lead to more negative WOM (and BO effects) if continued.

By the way...over 66% of COTT's gross came from overseas, which has considerably less 3D venues than the US. Just sayin'... :O

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/452..._conversion_comes_in_for_heavy_criticism.html

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/movie-talk-critics-clash-over-titans-3D.html
 
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I was talking about the reaction to its 3D conversion, and how it could easily lead to more negative WOM (and BO effects) if continued.

By the way...over 66% of COTT's gross came from overseas, which has considerably less 3D venues than the US. Just sayin'... :O

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/452..._conversion_comes_in_for_heavy_criticism.html

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/movie-talk-critics-clash-over-titans-3D.html

Hey, you said that it was bad. You did not say anything about 3D conversion leading to negative word of mouth. I dont' really care about the criticism. What about the data? Can you show where the 3D actually hurt the film? It made almost a half a billion dollars (for a March release at that during a time where there was high unemployment in the U.S.) and is getting a sequel.
 
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Hey, you said that it was bad. You did not say anything about 3D conversion leading to negative word of mouth.
That's precisely what I was referring to, and what is reflected in the articles I posted. Nice try, though. ;)

I dont' really care about the criticism. what about the data?
You have an uncanny ability to misinterpret data, so I saved you the trouble.

Can you show where the 3D actually hurt the film. It made almost a half a billion dollars (for a March release at that during a time where there was high unemployment in the U.S.) and is getting a sequel.
Can you show me where 3D was specificaslly responsible for its success/grosses and securing a sequel? Like..say...its 3D grosses alone out-earning other movies' 3D grosses with similar numbers of theaters?

Didn't think so. :D

How did Iron Man 2 gross even more without 3D?
 
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First post!
Anyway, I filled my screen up yesterday with the GL homepage and took a screenshot and then cleaned up all the fine print text in photoshop. I thought some here might want it for a wallpaper or something. (I've got a slightly bigger version on my comp if anyway wants a bigger one (1920 x 1200). I'm super excited about the new movie! :woot:

GL-1.jpg

Welcome. :yay:

You mind if I put this cleaned up version of this pic in the Book of Oa thread?
 
Post-3D can be very good if the right kind of time/money and care is taken to go with a good process. But obviously, the emphasis is on charging more per ticket. I think that the more 'real 3D' and 3D shot movies that come out, the more that people will notice and react to the sub-standard post-processed ones, which may cause studios to rethink what they settle for.

You guys are trying to associate length of time (in days/weeks/months) to better quality when production doesn't work that way. What matters here is man hours. If it takes 160 hours to perform a task you could have one man do it in 1 month or you could break the job up and have 4 men do it in 1 week. That doesn't mean that you are sacrificing quality, you are just getting the job done faster. Sure you are going to pay more, but if the delivery date means more (since that's when you start making money) then it might be worth it to you. That's an upper management decision. It sounds like the studio wanted a scene/scenes put into the film and they were willing to pay for it so that it would still be on schedule. They hired more people to work on it so that they could compress the turnaround time. That does not equate to rushing anything or jeopardizing quality.
 
Dnno, once again you have pulled out ANOTHER graph/stat. You always entertain me! :)
 
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You guys are trying to associate length of time (in days/weeks/months) to better quality when production doesn't work that way. What matters here is man hours. If it takes 160 hours to perform a task you could have one man do it in 1 month or you could break the job up and have 4 men do it in 1 week. That doesn't mean that you are sacrificing quality, you are just getting the job done faster. Sure you are going to pay more, but if the delivery date means more (since that's when you start making money) then it might be worth it to you. That's an upper management decision. It sounds like the studio wanted a scene/scenes put into the film and they were willing to pay for it so that it would still be on schedule. They hired more people to work on it so that they could compress the turnaround time. That does not equate to rushing anything or jeopardizing quality.
Sorry...but I'm going to believe Cameron over you on this one....

James Cameron, director of "Avatar," weighed in on the 3D debate -- and specifically in regard to "Clash of the Titans" -- in an interview with USA Today.

When asked about films that are up-converted, as opposed to shot specifically for 3D, Cameron said, "It's never going to be as good as if you shot it in 3D, but think of it as sort of 2.8D."

Even with up-converting, Cameron saying that it would be considered "2.8D" assumes that the proper time was taken for the convergence. When asked specifically about "Clash of the Titans," Cameron said, "They're converting 'Clash of the Titans' in eight weeks. But I'm guessing six months to a year to do it right."

The basic gist...and what you're missing...is that a 'proper' 3D conversion takes a lot of time, even if you hire more people. Shot-by-shot, even frame-by-frame in some instances...it doesn't just take man-hours..it takes rendering hours, convergence hours, proofing hours...and the only way to get more out of that is to hire more facilities...which will cost more money, and even more on principle for rush/overtime/wknd hours. So since studios do have a ceiling on what they'll spend...it DOES mean that things are rushed and quality suffers. Bottom line is...whether it's shot 3D or done as post-conversion...make the decision early and allot the right kind of time to do it right....because time is ultimately more valuable than money when it comes to filmmaking.
 
Sorry...but I'm going to believe Cameron over you on this one....

James Cameron, director of "Avatar," weighed in on the 3D debate -- and specifically in regard to "Clash of the Titans" -- in an interview with USA Today.

When asked about films that are up-converted, as opposed to shot specifically for 3D, Cameron said, "It's never going to be as good as if you shot it in 3D, but think of it as sort of 2.8D."

Even with up-converting, Cameron saying that it would be considered "2.8D" assumes that the proper time was taken for the convergence. When asked specifically about "Clash of the Titans," Cameron said, "They're converting 'Clash of the Titans' in eight weeks. But I'm guessing six months to a year to do it right."
The basic gist...and what you're missing...is that a 'proper' 3D conversion takes a lot of time, even if you hire more people. Shot-by-shot, even frame-by-frame in some instances...it doesn't just take man-hours..it takes rendering hours, convergence hours, proofing hours...and the only way to get more out of that is to hire more facilities...which will cost more money, and even more on principle for rush/overtime/wknd hours. So since studios do have a ceiling on what they'll spend...it DOES mean that things are rushed and quality suffers. Bottom line is...whether it's shot 3D or done as post-conversion...make the decision early and allot the right kind of time to do it right....because time is ultimately more valuable than money when it comes to filmmaking.

The actual quote came from here and went like this:

Q: How do converted films look?


A: It's never going to be as good as if you shot it in 3D, but think of it as sort of 2.8D.


Q: How long does it take?


A: They're converting Clash of the Titans in eight weeks. But I'm guessing six months to a year to do it right. We're targeting spring of 2012 for the release (of a 3D version of Titanic), which is the 100 year anniversary of the sailing of the ship.
Cameron is just stating his opinion (and he was guessing at that -- he wasn't sure). What is doing it right? Why couldn't you break the film into 3 parts have 3 different groups work on the job simultaneously and have it done in 2 months (8 weeks) instead of 6 months (24 - 52 weeks)? That's not rushing it it just means you are making a choice between spending a little more money and making your release date and waiting and delaying your payback time. If you borrowed the money to make the film (and I say this in supposition) I don't think the bank is going to wait on your schedule slip to get their money. This is why making schedule is so critical since the penalties could be more costly than spending the extra money now.
 
Makes no difference to me. I'm seeing it in 2D and IMAX only, anyway.
 
So you mean to tell me that KalMart does? Don't be ridiculous. DC and the WB are the ones producing the film and that's what they are saying they made. For years, folks like Gregory Noveck have been saying that Green Lantern was "like Star Wars" so this is nothing new. I think even a novice can conclude from the trailers that Green Lantern is space based SciFi, so don't try to be an apologist for this guy by giving him a pass at saying that this is not.

This has nothing to do with Kal-Mart. If you're saying that it LOOKS like Star Wars. Sure. Fine. I can see it. If you're saying that IT IS GOING TO BE THEIR "Star Wars" relating it to box office and sequels, that is what I'm referring to.

If that is indeed the case, and that is what you mean, and that is what the above people at WB/DC mean...they are setting Green Lantern up to fail. No movie can be Star Wars. Green Lantern is not Star Wars, and won't be Star Wars.

It's like saying Green Lantern is our Avatar....

So don't start telling me I'm an apologist for being realistic and wanting to see Green Lantern for what it is, Green Lantern.
 
This has nothing to do with Kal-Mart. If you're saying that it LOOKS like Star Wars. Sure. Fine. I can see it. If you're saying that IT IS GOING TO BE THEIR "Star Wars" relating it to box office and sequels, that is what I'm referring to.

If that is indeed the case, and that is what you mean, and that is what the above people at WB/DC mean...they are setting Green Lantern up to fail. No movie can be Star Wars. Green Lantern is not Star Wars, and won't be Star Wars.

It's like saying Green Lantern is our Avatar....

So don't start telling me I'm an apologist for being realistic and wanting to see Green Lantern for what it is, Green Lantern.

Once again, that is your opinion and it is not necessarily factual. Like I said before. there have been people (some pretty credible and and others on the Internet) thay have been saying that this is DC's "Star Wars" (for years now). I don't think anyone will hardly noticed opinions of KalMart and Showtime saying the opposite are going to make much of an impact to change that or persuade anyone otherwise.
 
Once again, that is your opinion and it is not necessarily factual. Like I said before. there have been people (some pretty credible and and others on the Internet) thay have been saying that this is DC's "Star Wars" (for years now). I don't think anyone will hardly noticed opinions of KalMart and Showtime saying the opposite are going to make much of an impact to change that or persuade anyone otherwise.
Nor will your rampant denial and deluded fanboyisms make it so.
 
Once again, that is your opinion and it is not necessarily factual. Like I said before.

Just like yours or anybody's opinion.

there have been people (some pretty credible and and others on the Internet) thay have been saying that this is DC's "Star Wars" (for years now).

It doesn't matter if Obama or Gandhi says that it is DC's Star Wars, it doesn't mean it will be at the box office. Again, that is what I am referring too. Box office. Not look. Not feel. Not tone. Not space. Not spaceships. Not aliens.

I don't think anyone will hardly noticed opinions of KalMart and Showtime saying the opposite are going to make much of an impact to change that or persuade anyone otherwise.

I don't think DC or WB will notice either of our opinions, mine or yours. However, on this board, everybody's opinion counts. Even if it disagrees with yours and you don't want to hear it.

So if you think Green Lantern is going to make 460 Million at the box office domestic, or whatever the number is. I disagree with you.
 
The actual quote came from here and went like this:

Cameron is just stating his opinion (and he was guessing at that -- he wasn't sure).
And why would we even think of lending credibility to it if he's at the forefront of 3D filmmaking, right? Classic. By the way, he's actually had one of his 2D films converted (the one you included in your quote)...and converted as 'right' as it can be....so he kinda' knows about that as well. Put it this way...some 'opinions' are worth more than others.

What is doing it right? Why couldn't you break the film into 3 parts have 3 different groups work on the job simultaneously and have it done in 2 months (8 weeks) instead of 6 months (24 - 52 weeks)? That's not rushing it it just means you are making a choice between spending a little more money and making your release date and waiting and delaying your payback time. If you borrowed the money to make the film (and I say this in supposition) I don't think the bank is going to wait on your schedule slip to get their money. This is why making schedule is so critical since the penalties could be more costly than spending the extra money now.
I'm not sure why I'm going into specifics, because you won't listen anyway...but here goes...

Obvioulsy, facilities have different groups of people working on a project. but it doesn't necessarily makes certain things go faster...like rendering. And these places have their rendering systems maxed out...which means if something will take 12 hours to render, that's the fastest that it can be rendered with today's available technology...no matter how many people you hire. Any effects/CG place goes through the same thing. If you have more people prepping the work, then you get more jobs waiting in line to render....or you divide the rendering over multiple jobs which lowers the processing power and lengthens the time needed for each. So another possible workaround...like with last-minute effects work...is to subcontract other facilities/houses and have them go full-bore on their part of it.

But one of the problems with farming out something like a 3D conversion to different facility/conversion houses is that many of these places use their own proprietary software/systems and encoding formats. They have their own ways of handling convergence adjustments, per-frame information, etc. i.e...they've designed and built it themselves, not bought the same software and computers that every other house has. For example..Pixar couldn't just hand over 1/3 of their animation work to Dreamworks or what have you because Pixar designed/built their own software and animation systems...it won't even open up or translate to another place's system. So for the sake of consistency and control, it's mostly best to have it in-house at one place...as a lot of adjustments and tweaks are made with the whole thing in front of you. But if different 'groups' are using different systems and such, it bogs things down because it's harder to put it all together to check and proof...and adjustments that can be made on one system are made a different way on another.

Plus, in one place, even if you have multiple groups doing different parts...they all pretty-much share the same media through one gigantic server. But if you do part A at a place in, say, LeBrea, part B in Palo Alto, and C in San Francisco...they phsysically can't share media at once...and these aren't files that you can simply email to eachother. So even though you have more people and more systems doing different parts of the work, you can easily end up spending more time/money trying to get everything on 'the same page', and even the tiniest adjustments can mean going back and doing/rendering the entire sequence again...20 seconds of screentime can easily take up 3 days of checking, adjusting, re-adjusting, re-rendering, conforming, proofing, and transfer/delivery. It can actually take longer to to get two parts from two houses to jive with eachother than it would just one of the places to do it all. And that extra time isn't productive time, either...it's like turning a humongous quicktime into a WMV just so that another system can read it, and it'll take at least a day to transcode...and if something's off, they have to go back and do it all again and spend that extra time translating.

When everything's 'in-house' it cuts down on a lot of that...but if your in-house rendering and workforce is already maxed out, you need more time. And that's when quality goes down because you are rushing and settling for less proofing/fine-tuning/etc. in order to make a hard deadline. There's just a point where more money and more people can't buy you time, and you even start to lose more time trying to organize it all.

I hope that's a bit clearer, but I have a feeling it still won't sink in.
 
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JAK®;20184555 said:
Nor will your rampant denial and deluded fanboyisms make it so.

I'm sorry guy, but there is a lot of negativism about this film that is unwarranted or baseless. Rather than let this get out of hand and spread, it is better to counter that with the facts. There is no proof that 3D films have lost their popularity and as long as they are making money for the studios, they will continue to offer them in theaters. Green Lantern is DC's "Star Wars". People associated with the film as well as folks in the comic book industry have said as much and their word is going to be more credible than a hand full of naysayers on this thread. Just because the producers have chosen to spend extra money to make their release date it doesn't mean they are rushing the picture (i.e. sacrificing quality by going too fast). It just means the want to make their scheduled release date and not mess up other negotiated revenue streams. I don't call that denial or delusional, I call that being rational.
 
Damn, it just got super cereal around here. Can we just talk about Green Lantern's new photo?
 
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