Official Green Lantern News & Discussion Thread - Part 9

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I don't know, I guess I just didn't think it had poor pacing or poor dialogue. I was never bored by the film. I never felt like it hit a massive lull. There were parts where it did seem choppy (particularly when Hector entered the picture), but it wasn't Attack of the Clones bad. And as for the dialogue... in a world where critics praise movies like Fast Five (which I also really liked, don't get me wrong) where every line is some silly cliche about "family" or Vin and/or the Rock doing his best Arnold one-liner, I didn't find any lines in GL that had me facepalming, other than maybe Parallax at the very beginning. And trust me, after seeing some of the reviews, I was looking for the bad lines. I walked into the movie expecting it to suck, and it didn't, at least in my book.

As for the story? It really followed Secret Origin pretty well. There were changes of course, but the basics were all there. They switched out some characters, added more action and tweaked some motivations, but not much else. There was less Sinestro, Kilowog and Tomar Re, and maybe there should have been more... but I think we need to remember that this was Hal's story. Sure, those characters are important but they didn't want to take the focus off of him.

Anyway, I don't want to beat what appears to be a dead horse here. It looks like the movie will be considered a failure financially, and WB will probably decide that the only comic book movies worth making are Batman and maybe Superman if MOS is a success. It's a shame, but there's nothing we can do at this point. I personally enjoyed GL but it seems like most people didn't, and I guess that's that. Oh, well.
 
Now, what is interesting is If WB reboot the Green Lantern making minor adjustments to his origins and keeping the key aspects of the mythos intact, with a better script, better dialog, better CGI it would still face an uphill battle with critics as many just disapprove of the "Concept" itself, it is a bit Hulk like situation, I can see the rebooted movie getting an "Improved score " on RT as 35 %

Most critics I've spoken to really wanted to like this film. More than that, they wanted to sing it's praises. The cast was well liked, the character was fresh. If it didn't live up to their expectations due to execution, marketing or whatever, it's not their fault. It was the fundamentals that failed this film in the critics' eyes.
 
Despite some of its flaws i was entertained by the movie and thought that it was a nice introduction to Green Lantern for newbies.

Elliot S Maggin, who was associated with Green Lantern Comics likes the movie, but cannot understand the bad reviews it is getting.

http://www.caveatcorner.com/

From Wikipedia - "Elliot S. Maggin, also spelled Elliot S! Maggin (born 1950), is an American writer of comic books, film, television and novels. He was a main writer for DC Comics during the Bronze and early Modern ages of comics in the 1970s and 1980s"



There were many other reasons I loved Green Lantern, most of which are on display in the just-released Warner Bros film of that name. The critics uniformly seem to hate it. They have their heads up their asses. Especially Peter Travers in Rolling Stone who ought to know better. Here’s why:
Green Lantern the film launches a visual and figurative vocabulary – a set of assumptions about the viability of the popular consciousness – that we haven’t seen updated in this medium since Star Wars. The intelligence of the film is on display mostly in what the filmmakers choose to leave out. There have been wormholes, for example, in earlier movies, but they’ve always been accompanied by lengthy digressions where some learned Sagan clone explains in excruciating detail what they are and how they work. Sometimes there are even lame visual aids: toilet paper tubes and fiber optic reading lights and such. By contrast, somewhere toward the top of the second act, Ryan Reynolds in a holographic Green Lantern body suit launches into the maw of one somewhere off the northern edge of the solar system and pops out in the neighborhood of the ancient planet Oa at the geographic midpoint of the Universe. No problem; no further explanation necessary; visually obvious.



The film is full of such shorthanded leaps, all the better to fit a corker of a story. “Too much information,” one movie reviewer cries, drooling with the assumption that what he’s too intellectually lazy to integrate is beyond the grasp of an audience better acquainted with the shared experiences of twenty-first century collective memory than he.



There’s an astonishing absence of cultural sophistication among our supposed cultural gatekeepers these days. This lapse is so prevalent that reportedly the marketing suits at Warner Bros are already casting around for someone to take the fall for their huge but timorous investment in this superb product of American heroic fantasy. Someone somewhere in the arcane process that goes into making a big Hollywood movie understands the protocols of traditional mythology and, what’s more, whoever among the Warner geeks knows this stuff got to make some major creative decisions that kept this presentation consistent not only with its source material but with the classical coding that made it great.
 
Now, what is interesting is If WB reboot the Green Lantern making minor adjustments to his origins and keeping the key aspects of the mythos intact, with a better script, better dialog, better CGI it would still face an uphill battle with critics as many just disapprove of the "Concept" itself, it is a bit Hulk like situation, I can see the rebooted movie getting an "Improved score " on RT as 35 %
But....with those improvements, it might sit considerably better with audiences and make considerably more money...say...an opening wknd of 80M instead of 55M, and better legs. I still think GL is a bit harder of a sell because it's big green shapes et al....but...not so much that a really good script and filmmaker can't make it almost as, if not just as, popular as the more 'accessible' characters like Spidey and Iron Man.
 
Now, what is interesting is If WB reboot the Green Lantern making minor adjustments to his origins and keeping the key aspects of the mythos intact, with a better script, better dialog, better CGI it would still face an uphill battle with critics as many just disapprove of the "Concept" itself, it is a bit Hulk like situation, I can see the rebooted movie getting an "Improved score " on RT as 35 %

Critics accepted Avatar, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Thor. Maybe it isn't the concept, but, get this, maybe they just didn't dig the execution.

No, surely not!
 
Despite some of its flaws i was entertained by the movie and thought that it was a nice introduction to Green Lantern for newbies.

Elliot S Maggin, who was associated with Green Lantern Comics likes the movie, but cannot understand the bad reviews it is getting.

http://www.caveatcorner.com/

From Wikipedia - "Elliot S. Maggin, also spelled Elliot S! Maggin (born 1950), is an American writer of comic books, film, television and novels. He was a main writer for DC Comics during the Bronze and early Modern ages of comics in the 1970s and 1980s"

Yeah, I really like Maggin's comments and I agree with him. The thing is, I can understand the critics and the fans who say it's an average, 2 1/2 star movie. I feel it's better than that, but given some of its flaws, I can see why people would feel that way. It's the ones labeling it a horrible abomination that baffle me. I think they just let their expectations get built up to unattainable proportions.
 
Critics accepted Avatar, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Thor. Maybe it isn't the concept, but, get this, maybe they just didn't dig the execution.

No, surely not!
Yeah, but none of them made big glowing green fists and cars, and recited a rhyming chant out loud. Maybe Potter did to some extent, but you know what I mean. :D I don't necessarily that's too much to take, but maybe some of them do.

Yeah, I really like Maggin's comments and I agree with him. The thing is, I can understand the critics and the fans who say it's an average, 2 1/2 star movie. I feel it's better than that, but given some of its flaws, I can see why people would feel that way. It's the ones labeling it a horrible abomination that baffle me. I think they just let their expectations get built up to unattainable proportions.
What if they expected it to be as good as Iron Man, though? Isn't that attainable? I mean, I don't think they collectively expected it to be the Star Wars of this generation or what have you. Heck, even Star Wars couldn't deliver that in the prequels.
 
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Yeah, but none of them made big glowing green fists and cars, and recited a rhyming chant out loud. Maybe Potter did to some extent, but you know what I mean. :D I don't necessarily that's too much to take, but maybe some of them do.

Or maybe they just didn't like the execution.
 
What if they expected it to be as good as Iron Man, though? Isn't that attainable? I mean, I don't think they collectively expected it to be the Star Wars of this generation or what have you. Heck, even Star Wars couldn't deliver that in the prequels.

It is attainable, and sure, I wish it could have been even better, but I guess I didn't think it was THAT much worse than Iron Man that it bothered me.

Thor wasn't as good as Iron Man, and that was well received. I would put GL on par with Thor, and I'm not alone there -- Ebert actually liked it better. GL was much better than the lame Green Hornet and the jumbled mess that was Wolverine... why people apparently liked those films more is a mystery to me.

Of course, it's all subjective.
 
Or maybe they just didn't like the execution.

That's been my guess from the start, but I think there are those who feel that it was good enough that the answer must lie with the concept itself...as in an innate aversion to it, or people just not 'getting it'. Or at least critics.

I mean, I do think it's one of the more 'comic-booky' concepts/characters out there...but it's not Howard The Duck, for Pete's sake...or, on the other extreme, Watchmen. I think with Thor, you can immediately draw from mythology as a kind of 'point of entry' to the style/feel of the concept. Star Wars for GL? I dunno...maybe if Luke or Han Solo came to present-day Earth or something. But it's still not so 'out there' as to be hard to grasp or take seriously.
 
Y'know....if GL fans as a whole really feeel that this was a faithful/respectful representation of the character and the overall vibe of the GL comic world, and the critical response was the same...then yeah, I'd say there's something inherent to GL that's an acquired taste that they're just not getting. Kinda' in the way that Watchmen, in staying so close to the source, alienated a lot of viewers that weren't familiar with the comic.

Maybe the real key to its appeal likes in the whole GL Corps and big space battles...for the majority of the film. Maybe for movies, Earth just isn't the place to get the most out of GL...in that something as fantastical and otherworldy as him needs an equally otherworldy setting, and that trying to make it 'relatable' undermines that to a point where it exposes its 'comic-book-ness' to those who aren't as receptive to it.

From the sounds of a lot of reviews/responses, the film suffered from major flaws that are rather rudimentary...bad storytelling, dialogue, pacing, etc. The kinds of things that can bring down any film, regardless of the subject matter. If true, the big question is...had those elements been good..well executed, well written, and so on...would GL naturally still present an uphill battle for the film by being GL? Is it still that hard to buy for those who aren't comic or GL fans? And if it is....is film just not the place for GL?

I believe that if Thor can work on the big screen, anything can. But the execution has to be good-great. Thor wasn't a perfect movie but despite it's flaws there was enough there to make most critics and fans care about an alien norse god that is cast down to earth got to credit the actors there. I feel like the Green Lantern film ended up being the opposite, but to be honest I personally feel that most of Green lanterns issues are more on a technical level IE. editing/script. There were some good-great things in this flick but ultimately it's technical issues bogged it down to the point I didn't even care towards the end. Some of the acting was a little over the top for my tastes but I feel had the editing and script been stronger I could have overlooked some of it.
 
I believe that if Thor can work on the big screen, anything can. But the execution has to be good-great. Thor wasn't a perfect movie but despite it's flaws there was enough there to make most critics and fans care about an alien norse god that is cast down to earth got to credit the actors there. I feel like the Green Lantern film ended up being the opposite, but to be honest I personally feel that most of Green lanterns issues are more on a technical level IE. editing/script. There were some good-great things in this flick but ultimately it's technical issues bogged it down to the point I didn't even care towards the end. Some of the acting was a little over the top for my tastes but I feel had the editing and script been stronger I could have overlooked some of it.

Man, the whole editing critique still bewilders me...not that people are wrong to scrutinize it, but because you just don't get bad editors at that level, and especially with someone like Baird. I mean, movies like Spidey3 were horrible, but they were still edited just fine. :D It makes you think that something just...happened...executive orders to chop stuff out, or as Poni brought up, not enough finished effects. You almost can't get noticeably bad editing with films this big unless you actually make it bad with not enough material or forced omissions.
 
To a point its about the execution.

I read through the first 60 reviews. There was some utter hyperbolic nonsense in them. A few decent points, like "It could have been better". But the problem is, many of them are merging the execution and the concept's inherent silliness or weirdness. And comparing everything to The Dark Knight. By and large, that's what is going on.

If I had to guess, I'd say the issue is that because the concept is silly, the movie has to work that much harder to appease critics. And, interestingly enough, its own fans. There's a lot of whining about realism and whatnot. The critics seem to find with formulaic films, as long as the films aren't TOO formulaic.

Here's some highlights, the main criticisms, if you will, from the Top Critics from Rotten Tomatoes:

"Filled with unintentionally laughable characters, intergalactic gobbledygook, sudden pacing shifts and a hero whose superpower is downright cartoony, this latest comic adaptation makes something like "Spider-Man" look both grounded and brilliant."

That doesn't sound like they value the source material much, or even bothered to give it much thought.

What, one might ask, is a Green Lantern? They would be a sort of galactic police force, ruled by the previously mentioned shrunken heads in long robes. Most of the characters look like refugees from the worst George Lucas film never made. There's even a fish with backward legs creature that gives off whiffs of Jar Jar Binks.

Jar Jar Binks?

And yet — and this is the film's most essential flaw — "Green Lantern" elects to be a space opera, spending far too much time flitting about the universe. An earthbound Lantern may have had more of a chance to connect on a gut level; as the character is something of a fluorescent Luke Skywalker rip-off (there's even talk of "dark forces").

Uh, the film spends most of its time on Earth. Also its a Star Wars ripoff, apparently.

That the super villain resembles nothing so much as a giant tentacled dust-bunny with teeth does nothing to make it strike fear in the hearts of the audience, even when said audience has been told that it is unconquerable. Then again all super villains are.

Dust bunny?

Even Mark Strong, in fetching red face-paint and Vulcan ears, can’t make the hackneyed and overblown lines sound any better than they are, despite effortlessly wearing an imperious sense of authority as the lead Lantern who disapproves of Hal’s induction to the corps despite the ring’s putative inability to make a mistake.

So apparently Mark Strong WASN'T fantastic, nor was his dialogue.

Comparing the film to prior superhero efforts isn’t flattering. Watching Hal and Carol flirt recalls the superior sparks thrown off by Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder in the first two “Superman” films. And where is the sense of joy found in being able to fly that the best superhero films deliver? Close your eyes and recall Reeve grinning as he took to the skies, or Robert Downey, Jr. feeling that adrenaline burst as his iron suit let him mock gravity.

So now it has to stand up against the best of the best of the superhero romances.

And apparently they missed the obvious joy from Hal when he learned he could fly.

Let us not mince words: a sci-fi epic about a magic imagination ring and an octopus-shaped cloud and the human being who can only learn to use his ring if he can get over the feelings of loss that have haunted him ever since his hotshot test pilot daddy died in an accident, that is not a film that can be understood quite as readily as "angry rich man turns into a vigilante", "boy gets radioactive spider bite, becomes spider", or "alien who is basically Jesus Christ saves everybody all the time", and it is thus not altogether surprising that the casual fan - or, indeed, the non-fan! - of comic books might find Green Lantern a bit harder to get into than Batman, Spider-Man, and Superman.

At least this critic admits this is something the critcs are doing.

So dumb. There’s just no inspiration to Green Lantern. The most special effect in the whole production is Ryan Reynolds’ backside in the hard, plasticky-looking Green Lantern outfit; one of the nicest bits of Hollywood padding since Michelle Pfeiffer’s hyper-fluffy derriere in 1992’s Batman Returns. There’s an inordinate amount of scenes of Reynolds in only the smallest of skivvies throughout a goodly portion of the film, but even that estimable sight wasn’t enough to save a film so lacking in imagination or wit. Perhaps part of the problem is that Green Lantern’s power itself makes an odd translation to film. The Lantern’s ring makes Hal Jordan’s thoughts a reality; he can’t just ask it to blow up an alien ship or knock someone across a room. Jordan must actually think of a giant fist that then materialises out of green light from the ring and punches his opponent. The same silliness occurs with a crashing helicopter; Hal’s quick thinking conjures up a sort of transport train which carries the disabled aircraft along a race car ramp over the heads of potential victims on the ground. Sound convoluted? Boy is it; as are the Gatling guns, catapults and other weapons that Hal must manually operate against his foes instead of the ring simply being able to dispatch the bad guys. It’s early days yet, but I’m betting if there’s any kind of award for worst visual effect of the year it’s going to Peter Sarsgaard’s bloated-headed alien mutation, which turns him into an unfortunate doppelganger for Rocky Dennis from the 1985 film Mask.

Apparently Hector Hammond's makeup is bad?

A pathetic superhero comic book film about the origins of the emerald-hued Green Hornet, filmed in 3-D and filmed without conviction for its cause. The plotline is convoluted, the dialogue is dreadful, the acting is stiff, the special effects are cheesy and the presentation is silly.

The Green Hornet?

Loud, incoherent and fuzzy-looking even with the 3D specs on, Green Lantern is the latest movie scraped from the barrel where studio execs store their childhood comic collections. I'm not even sure what Green Lantern's special skills are. He's a flying ace (Ryan Reynolds, doing a lot of eyebrow work) chosen when an alien crashes to earth. He has to defend a small patch of California from the dangerous over-acting of Peter Sarsgaard, while Geoffrey Rush looks on, dressed as a fish. As silly summer superhero movies go, this was thoroughly all right.

So this person didn't even get it, as simple as the concept and story was, and still gave it a positive review. Which was counted as a negative on RT.

Several critics have said the story was not coherent. Which is nonsense. Its incredibly easy to follow.

They've said that the movie suffers from superhero cliches, which literaly pretty much EVERY superhero movie has.

There have been complaints that the movie "doesn't know how to use Hector Hammond"...which obviously isn't true. He's a pawn of Parallax and a threat to Carol and Hal and his father.

And some of them just ramble about how they don't care for Hector Hammond or Parallax in general, BEYOND their design or story use. The basic concepts.

One of them even whines that GL chose to make a Hot Wheels racetrack to save the copter. One of the most creative things in the movie, and they whine about it.

Or they whine about how Hal Jordan as a character is irresponsible.

Do these really sound like fair, balanced reviews?

Green Lantern is a middle of the road film. It's not bad. It's not very good. The movie didn't have poor pacing, or bad dialogue, or even a bad story. It just didn't have the best of these. I think a lot of people just flat out expected the bar to be raised with this film, and I'm not sure why. I don't necessarily think the bar has to be raised every time. Maybe on something. With Green Lantern, it was clearly special effects.



How so?

Well said and completely agree with you here. Also agree with the point C. Lee made earlier. I know I had said earlier that the reviews seemed all over the place and one poster rather rudely said there was. As C.Lee points out they really did hit on different things.
 
I hope theres an extended version of the movie when it comes out on bluray because i feel that alot of the scenes that were edited needed to be in the movie.
 
That's been my guess from the start, but I think there are those who feel that it was good enough that the answer must lie with the concept itself...as in an innate aversion to it, or people just not 'getting it'. Or at least critics.

I mean, I do think it's one of the more 'comic-booky' concepts/characters out there...but it's not Howard The Duck, for Pete's sake...or, on the other extreme, Watchmen. I think with Thor, you can immediately draw from mythology as a kind of 'point of entry' to the style/feel of the concept. Star Wars for GL? I dunno...maybe if Luke or Han Solo came to present-day Earth or something. But it's still not so 'out there' as to be hard to grasp or take seriously.

I disagree on Thor. Yeah, it draws from mythology, but it had the not easy task of taking a fantasy idea and making it work as sci fi. That's a mean feat and they made it work for general audiences. If people could get behind Thor, I don't see why Green Lantern is any more inherently a more difficult concept. If anything, Thor had more work to do in making the backstory palatable.
 
I disagree on Thor. Yeah, it draws from mythology, but it had the not easy task of taking a fantasy idea and making it work as sci fi. That's a mean feat and they made it work for general audiences. If people could get behind Thor, I don't see why Green Lantern is any more inherently a more difficult concept. If anything, Thor had more work to do in making the backstory palatable.

I could see that too. I think the idea of Gl just being a bad film, if it is indeed a bad film, wouldn't be so hard to grasp if it didn't carry a measure of wounded pride with it...which is understandable in a place like this. I feel bad for fans who feel let-down by the movie. But if fans like it too, kudos...who gives a crap what others think?

I hope theres an extended version of the movie when it comes out on bluray because i feel that alot of the scenes that were edited needed to be in the movie.

Hopefully they'll finish the effects by then....if they're still working on them. You pretty much have to hope that they will to give the DVD/BluRay some extra buyers' incentive, after the way it did in theaters.
 
Martin Campbell's never done an extended/director's cut of any of his film. I don't see why he would now, unless it's not his call.

We'll get deleted scenes separate from the film. What's unclear is how finished they are.

I will say this though; out of all of Campbell's films, this one feels the most choppy...so you never know...
 
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i think WB should not do a reboot. eve if this movie is not makign enough money they should make a sequel or at least a movie that is connceted to this movie. enough with the origins. the whole concept was introduced and explained.

now its time to take this character in space on an adventure.
 
why would they make a sequel to a movie that wasnt very successful
 
This movie cost 200 million and it had about 20 minutes of space adventure. How much do you think a sequel that focuses more on space and Oa is going to cost? 400 million?

Bad movies don't deserve sequels. This won't get a sequel. Justice is served.
 
If anything, the Green Lantern debacle gives me a greater appreciation for what Branagh and Co. accomplished with Thor, and I'm sure the suits at Marvel are thinking exactly the same thing right now.

I'm not even saying that Thor was all that much better than GL (I do think it was significantly better, but my personal opinion on the subject is a pretty insignificant drop in the bucket). What I'm saying is that Thor is a very, very hard concept to translate to the screen, much harder than GL imo. Yet it worked, and worked smoothly across the board: good numbers, good fan reaction, good reviews, a whole universe established for future installments.

GL shows that pulling something like that off is not as easy as Marvel studios made it look in the case of Thor. There are so many pitfalls along the way, and Thor managed to avoid pretty much all of them, including potentially exaggerated bad buzz. This could easily have happened to Thor, as the character is about as off-putting and awkward as any superhero could possibly be: the wierd mix of sci-fi, fantasy and myth, the magic hammer, the formal speech patterns of the gods, etc.
 
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This movie cost 200 million and it had about 20 minutes of space adventure. How much do you think a sequel that focuses more on space and Oa is going to cost? 400 million?

Bad movies don't deserve sequels. This won't get a sequel. Justice is served.

Not necessarily. My guess is they screwed up managing the budget. Avatar cost 230 million.
 
Yea but Avatar had James Cameron and WETA. Unless WB get someone of his calibur for the sequel, and ILM or WETA, it's only going to cost more money.
 
I looked up Sony Imageworks, and they've done good work in the past. I thought Dr. Manhattan was a beautifully rendered CG character. And even though it was a horrible movie, 2012 had solid FX. I don't know why there was so little bang for the buck in Green Lantern.
 
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