Comics Official JEAN GREY/PHOENIX Discussion Thread

[Xplicit Content]

I wouldn't mind seeing Jean brought back. I understand peoples' opinions that her story has been told, but can anyone honestly say a comic character's story is ever finished being told? You're never going to see a character like Superman, Spidey or Batman axed, no matter how tired their schtick becomes. The challenge is evolving the characters so that they still maintain their intrigue when there is, apparently, none left. A writer has to create that again the same way another writer did it the first time.

With that said, I don't like the Phoenix. There has to be a way to write Jean without the Phoenix being a factor. My favorite Jean was the Jean of the 90's. I know, I know, Jean "is" Phoenix and how can you not be what u "is" (heh)? That's where a writer will show what they're made of. Find a way to get the Phoenix out of the equation and find a way to make Jean relevent as a non-Phoenix and as a non-Cyclops-ball-and-chain. Phoenix is a cosmic entity, no? Have another cosmic entity of greater power come along and rip the Phoenix out of Jean. There's a hack solution, but hey, I came up with it in 20 seconds, heh.

 

[ChaosJosh]

Hey ChaosJosh, where are those last 2 pics from?

The first pic is from X-Men #70. Jean manifested her tk powers as the Phoenix Raptor when she levitated an injured Cyclops down to the mansion.

The second pic is from X-Men Forever when Jean talks to Death again.

The third pic is from Uncanny X-Men #273. This is when Jean Grey was in her red X-Factor uniform and when she uses cerebro she encounters the Shadow King. She manifests a Phoenix effect when she tries to fight him but she still didn't have her telepathy back at that point so she is rescued by Psylocke.

I think the only time Jean manifested the Phoenix effect while she was in the 90s blue/gold uniform was X-Men #53 (look at the panel where she blasts Onslaught-- the raptor is behind her, her hair is on fire, and her blast is fiery) and X-Men #70.

Jean manifested the Phoenix Raptor a few times when she was Marvel Girl in X-Factor too.

In issue either 5 or 6, she protects herself with a tk shield from a villain who is blasting fire at her and as her power expands, a phoenix effect is the result of the fire reflecting off her tk shield.

In Marvel Universe Presents #15, Jean Grey as X-Factor Marvel Girl manifests the Phoenix Raptor too. She is surprised that her power naturally took the form of a phoenix effect.

Of course in Inferno and Judgment Wars, Jean had a spark of the Phoenix energies in her too.

And then there was Uncanny X-Men #273.

 

[ChaosJosh]

 

[ChaosJosh]

 

[Snikt 6]

I miss Jean.....they gotta bring her back.

 

[moonstar]

I miss Jean.....they gotta bring her back.

Ditto and for all the haters:
Jean was the only reason X-factor did so well in the begining and helped the success of XMEN in the 90's. It was all about her coming back and us finding out what happened to the original Jean we loved.

She didn't get sappy, all powerful, too perfect until she became Phoenix again. The old Jean even in Xfactor was full of Spunk-Mayb Morrison's J was Maddy again not Jean.... whatever I dont care-

X-factor was a top seller for years and btwy Jean & Scott were on the same team all that time and not together as a couple. That early Xfactor book was an xteam that was run more like the Avengers or Fantastic 4 even. The writer's for the upcoming books should check that out -small team no alpha exceptional powers but really human stories and relationships-
Jeannie will be back- hopefully sans Phoenix ....
because we demand it!
Deal with it.

 

[Havok83]

Ditto and for all the haters:


X-factor was a top seller for years and btwy Jean & Scott were on the same team all that time and not together as a couple

I think you need to clarify bc they werent a couple in the beginning but they definetly started to become one after Fall of hte Mutants when Maddie "died" on tv

 

[Valechan]

I remember Jean throwing a tantrum in x-factor 1 when Scott rejected her...

 

[Coldqueen]

What I like most about Jean is that whenever she becomes Phoenix her hair looks like she stuck her finger into an electric socket.

 

[moonstar]

to clarify wht i said:
Jean was the reason Xfactor did so well in the begining =success of XMEN in the 90's. It was all about her coming back and us finding out what happened to the original Jean we loved.


X-factor was a top seller for years and btwy Jean & Scott were on the same team all that time and not together as a couple. That early Xfactor book was an xteam that was run more like the Avengers or Fantastic 4 even.

In my next sentence i said early xfactor as soon as they officially got together it startd to suck and I thought scott was the clingy one by the way. Then they were like oK let's make Jean into the mother figure she was meant to be. But before that when she was single and only had telekinesis she was hot as hell & didn't take crap from anybody even tho compared to most xmen in the powers department she was kinda weak.
Therefore her & Scott were on the same team for years before anything happened it can be done again-

So don't blame Jean because some writer thought he was giving fanboys what we want with a Jott marriage.
I never wanted them married anyway although they could have stayed interesting that way like Peter Parker & mJ. After all the mess I still think the whole married but separated dynamic
can be done for forever with pleanty more love triangles,jealousy romantic tension as long as they don't officially get back together for a long time (i mean years or at least till we get some better writers and consistent artistic talent).
I must digress ....the art is so bad the faces so fug I don't care who any of them are dating. Half the facial expressions make them look constipated even when they r close to making out (see Hepzibah & Warpath in U Xmen)
Point is xfactor was the top book at one point when Jean got married and switched teams no one cared about Xfactor anymore they just kept writing it about a bunch of c list characters to keep the money coming in-Why cancel a top selling brand when idiots will continue to buy it because it has the same name on it and they knew everyone would be buying both new X team books anyway?

I dont know if it's too late but before they reconfigure the teams cant someone go find JIM LEE to fix it again? What title in the world could be cool enough to take precedence over the XMEN?$$$$$

 

[Havok83]

I remember Jean throwing a tantrum in x-factor 1 when Scott rejected her...

Wrong. Jean got pissed bc of how the original 4 changed. Warren had given up on being a hero. Scott had retired. She was shocked that he even tried to work with Magneto and was angry that Magneto, a man who tried to kill her and the rest of them numerous times was now head of the X-men. It made her sick that they no longer seemed to have any commitment to Xavier's dream and she stormed out of there bc unlike them she wasnt going to sit by idly and not fight for mutantkind like they've been doing since they were taken in by Prof X, especially since mutant hate was at a high based on the media she observed. More than anything she was upset bc so much had changed since the time she went to sleep. Everything was a shock for her. You remembered wrong bc she definetly wasnt tripping over Scott rejecting her

 

[HandOfFate]

The way I see it...

Jean Grey = Good
Phoenix Force = Good
Jean Grey tapping into Phoenix Force = Good
Jean Grey and Phoenix Force as one = Bad, very Bad and even more Bad

Any questions.

 

[ChaosJosh]

I think the Phoenix should have been left simply as an aspect of Jean Grey's mind and powers, like it originally was going to be and originally was until they introduced the concept of the primal force of passion in Uncanny 137 that she had bonded with off panel in Uncanny 100/101. Uncanny 125 explained how Jean became Phoenix and there was no mention of a cosmic force.

In X3 it was just as aspect of her mind and powers too and since her childhood. This was also hinted at in the comics (Classic X-Men 42).

However, I don't mind the Phoenix being a non-sentient force that Jean taps into or even both a mutation and a higher consciousness/force like in Morrison's run.

The Phoenix as a sentient force as its own character with its own continuity was always an awful idea.

Jean will come back as Phoenix, since she is a White Phoenix after all. Also if Jean wasn't going to stay the Phoenix they wouldn't have went through all the trouble of creating a new Phoenix Force (the blue shadow or echo of the Phoenix that isn't the true Phoenix) to give to Rachel who is still going by Marvel Girl.

Also usually Jean as Phoenix is more outgoing and lively (original sagas, revolution). She was somber and serene in New X-Men because of the tone of the book.

Lastly, I may sound like a broken record.. but those of us that want Jean back really needs to sent Marvel a postcard...

And simply write on it requesting the return of Jean Grey. Thats what some of us Jean fans have done. And hopefully those of you who haven't will do so too.

 

[Valechan]

Hand, I agree 400% with ya.

Bad news y'all... she's coming back She's prominently featured on the X-Men: Messiah Complex Files... so it's obvious they're setting up her return... what worries me most is the costume she is wearing. It's not Phoenix, it's not Dark Phoenix... it's White Phoenix. Am I the only one who thinks that White Phoenix (though cool) would be completely WRONG for a monthly superhero title?

 

[Bastila]

Hand, I agree 400% with ya.

Bad news y'all... she's coming back She's prominently featured on the X-Men: Messiah Complex Files... so it's obvious they're setting up her return... what worries me most is the costume she is wearing. It's not Phoenix, it's not Dark Phoenix... it's White Phoenix. Am I the only one who thinks that White Phoenix (though cool) would be completely WRONG for a monthly superhero title?

Is that Earth 616? and is that a new title 'Messiah Complex Files'? lol I only read a couple of x-men titles lol.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Red ain't coming back during Messiah.

 

[Manic]

They might set her up for a return after Messiah Complex, but not during.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Cause people would respond so well to the "Hey, let's bring back the Omega to make it all better and completely destroy any notion of stakes during the event's last few miles!!!" motif.

 

[Havok83]

Jean's not going to return until the final chapter of the "Endsong" trilogy drops and so far no news has been made on that. Im assuming around spring of 08. I think thats where we'll first see her with her big return to the core books later that year. She can be the centerpiece of the next big event. Of course this is just my own speculation

 

[Snikt 6]

Jean's not going to return until the final chapter of the "Endsong" trilogy drops and so far no news has been made on that. Im assuming around spring of 08. I think thats where we'll first see her with her big return to the core books later that year. She can be the centerpiece of the next big event. Of course this is just my own speculation

Sounds about right to me. The War Song was such a bust.....I hope the next one has its focus on Jean.

 

[Valechan]

I didn't say she was going to return in MC, I'm saying they're trying to bring her back into the conciousness of fans, introducing her to new readers, so they can bring her soon afterwards.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I didn't say she was going to return in MC, I'm saying they're trying to bring her back into the conciousness of fans, introducing her to new readers, so they can bring her soon afterwards.

I obviously wasn't referring to you.

You're an insane STORM fan. Not an insane JEAN fan. t:

 

[Coldqueen]

I didn't say she was going to return in MC, I'm saying they're trying to bring her back into the conciousness of fans, introducing her to new readers, so they can bring her soon afterwards.

...what new readers?

 

[ChaosJosh]

Jean is mentioned in an interview with the main X-writers in the latest Wizard magazine. This is how one fan described it...

The writers of the main x books (new, uncanny, and adjectiveless) talked a little about messiah complex and gave alot of insight into their most/least favorite xmen themes and storylines and such.

They pretty much all agree that the x-books stopped being interesting when multiple alternate realities and multiple future versions of characters started popping up.

they all also seemed to agree that phoenix and jean grey being two separate entities was a mistake, and at least brubaker stated that when he ever writes about jean grey/phoenix he ignores that part and just considers the jean grey that died on the moon as the jean grey that was resurrected (no cocoon stuff).

brubaker also rants a little bit about how its impossible to please continuity obsessed fans using rachel as an example. he states that fans think you don't know a characters history if you don't bring up every bit of their past everytime they are shown on panel. i found this part quite funny as it does seem to happen alot.

they did'nt really reveal all that much about MC that has not been revealed already, but it is nice to get inside the heads of the writers every once in a while.

 

[Slim]

If Jean comes back to life she's still technically married to Scott, right? How long before he springs the divorce papers on her, heh.