Comics Official JEAN GREY/PHOENIX Discussion Thread

[Valechan]

Sy'm offered Maddie a choice, she could choose whatever she wanted to be. She chose to be evil, to be the Goblyn Queen. She willingly elected to be evil, she wasn't possessed. Uncanny 232-234 deal with that as a subplot

 

[Manic]

Sy'm offered Maddie a choice, she could choose whatever she wanted to be. She chose to be evil, to be the Goblyn Queen. She willingly elected to be evil, she wasn't possessed. Uncanny 232-234 deal with that as a subplot

But she didn't know the consequences of her choice. She thought it was just a dream, and selected a picture of herself looking evil because she figured "what the hell? It's not like this choice means anything."

 

[ChaosJosh]

If Jean returns as a baby, it could be very interesting.

It would be a new way for her to return. Maybe being fragmented in Endsong and the events of House of M caused her to return in a new way.

The Phoenix once re-grew Rachel from a baby back into an adult and she still had all her memories, so the same could be done with Jean.

She probably won't be the baby, but it could have been interesting if done well.

 

[Valechan]

No one knows full well the consequences of their choices. Taht doesn't absolver her of the evil she commited under the guise of the Goblyn Queen. She tried to kill her baby son. There is no bigger evil than that.

 

[HandOfFate]

If Jean returns as a baby, it could be very interesting.

That would be a realllllllly bad idea.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Seriously, the only good thing that would come out of a baby Jean would be the humorous "Do we kill IT or not" scene.

Not to mention interactions with any x-man from the first or second class should be ZERO to not dive into creepy territory.

Oh, and then there's the whole aging thingy.

And how a Phoenix-wielder being (re)born conveys in no whatsoever relevant way the notion of hope FOR ALL.

 

[HandOfFate]

Seriously, the only good thing that would come out of a baby Jean would be the humorous "Do we kill IT or not" scene.

I bet, I can guess which way Emma would vote.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I bet, I can guess which way Emma would vote.

Emma: I say we kill it.

Cyke: Honey, you did not just say that out loud. I know the Phoenix Force is a threat and am most certainly creeped out by the idea of *anyone* around here changing Jean's diapers, but...

Emma: We kill it for the sake of all things that live. Greater good and all that rubbish.

Cyke: Drop the 'rubbish' part and it might just work...

 

[Manic]

No one knows full well the consequences of their choices. Taht doesn't absolver her of the evil she commited under the guise of the Goblyn Queen. She tried to kill her baby son. There is no bigger evil than that.

Yes, Maddy was evil once. My point is that she's not inherently evil. She's not "the evil Jean." Jean was the evil Jean. Maddy is a powerful woman who, much like the Phoenix, went temporarily insane. Just because she was temporarily evil once, that doesn't mean she's still (and always will be) evil. Hell, the last time anyone saw Madelyne, she was playing "kiss and make up" with Scott & Nathan.

 

[BMM]

I think Madelyne Pryor's choice is a bit ambiguous--perhaps intentionally? She willingly chooses to become the Goblyn Queen, under the guise that it is all a dream and under the assumption that nothing bad will befall anyone outside the bounds of that dream. Besides, if she is legitimately evil, one would question why the demons have to resort to tricking her into becoming the Goblyn Queen in the first place?

 

[gothicFLAVOURS]

Jean just appeared in "What If? Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire". I scanned the page she appears in:

Spoiler

 

[Nature's Rising]

I've always loved her concept of the Phoenix. It is so artistically inspiring. Too bad she's so useless in current Marvel. She should move to DC

 

[ChaosJosh]

Since theres only one M'Kraan Crystal/White Hot Room in all the multiverse, does that mean that this was 616 Jean interacting with another possible future/universe like she did in HCT?

 

[Valechan]

No. It means that reality's Jean Grey was there to comfort that reality's Vulcan. Bear in mind that all events prior to the death of Deathbird in that reality are the same as 616.

 

[Havok83]

This is a What If Story. It doesnt take place in any kind of continity so this Jean means nothing to what exists within the 616 realm

 

[Havok83]

Check out this in depth breakdown of all of Jean's powers:

Powers


Phoenix is an Omega-level mutant. Jean Grey-Summers is one of the most powerful mutants who ever lived. She has great control over her incredibly powerful telepathic and telekinetic abilities. After the Phoenix Force became one with its true heart and soul in the human form of Jean Grey, whose mind serves as a nexus point for all realities, Phoenix was able to tap into the vast powers from the sum of all life (the Phoenix Force); hence, her own powers were augmented to an unimaginable level and she became capable of controlling and wielding the incredible powers of the Phoenix Force. She can create and control flames at will (Cosmic Pyrokinesis), as well as control matter, energy, and thoughts completely. She also can resurrect herself after death. Please note that Phoenix is able to generate cosmic flames which are not dependent on oxygen. Her fire and flames are created either through cosmic energy or by her ability to stimulate molecules which generates heat. Therefore, Phoenix can manifest fire independent of her environment even under seemingly impossible conditions such as underwater or in the vacuum of space.

Telepathy[46]: She can manipulate the minds of others and even higher order animals within a vast, potentially limitless radius. Her notable powers include:

• Telepathic Defense: She can manifest her telepathy in a number of defensive ways.
  • Telepathic Cloak: She can mask her presence and the use of her abilities from being detected by other psions and psychic entities. She can extend these defenses to others around her as well. Cloaking via telepathy is not perfect and powerful psis may notice and 'see' through this ability.
  • Cloak Mind: Ability to rearrange the “mental engrams” of mutants so their distinctive mutant thought patterns cannot be detected by Cerebro-type devises or by other telepaths.
  • Psionic Shield: Ability to erect a psychic shield for protection of herself and of others minds.
• Telepathic Illusions: She can create realistic telepathic illusions and cause people to experience events which are not actually occurring. [47]
  • Telepathic Camouflage: She can alter the apparent physical appearance of herself and other people by altering the perceptions of those around her. This can go so far as to make other people believe that the camouflaged people are not there (invisible). A limit, if one exists, is only imposed by the number of people she is trying to fool, not the number of people she is camouflaging.[48]
• Telepathic Manipulation: She can manipulate other people's minds easily, achieving a variety of effects.
  • Mind Control: She can control the thoughts and actions of others. [49]
  • Mind Possession: She can possess the mind of another, and use that being's body as her own. [50]
  • Personality Alteration: She can alter the minds of others by force of will, permanently changing their personality partially or entirely. [51]
  • Mental Paralysis: She can induce temporary mental or physical paralysis.[52]
  • Mental Amnesia: She can erase any awareness of particular memories or cause total amnesia. [53]
  • Mind Transferal: She can transfer both her mind and powers into other host bodies if her own physical body could be somehow killed. [54]
  • Induce Pain: Can also induce mental pain merely by touching the brow of her victim. [55]
  • Heal Trauma: The ability to erase a person’s memories and to heal mental trauma through “psychic surgery,” the power to stimulate or deaden the pain and pleasure centers in a persons brain. [56]
  • Mental Sedating: Can telepathically "sedate" her victims so that, if already rendered unconscious, they remain so for as long as she continues to "sedate" them.
  • Neural Jumpstart: She can increase the speed of neural signals in the brain, she could increase another mutants powers to incredible levels, but the effect was only temporary. [57]
  • Dilate Power: Ability to place “psychic inhibitors” in the minds of mutant adversaries to prevent them from using their powers. [58]
• Mind Link: Ability to develop a mental link with any person which remains as a connection to that individual.
• Psionic Blasts: She can project psionic force bolts which have no physical effects but which can affect a victim's mind so as to cause the victim pain or unconsciousness and turning someone brain-dead.
• Astral Projection: She can project her astral form from her body onto astral planes or the physical planes. In the physical plane she can travel in astral form over vast distances. In the astral plane, she can mentally create psionic objects and manipulate the aspects of her environment. She can communicate with others astrally through her own will, or through contact with the thoughts and memories of others. [59]
• Mental Detection: She can sense the presence of another superhuman mutant within a small but as yet undefined radius of himself by perceiving the distinctive mental radiations emitted by such a being. [60]
• Psionic Firebird: She can manifest her telepathy as a psionic firebird; whose claws could inflict both physical and mental damage.[61]

Telekinesis: telekinetic abilities enable her to levitate herself or other objects, propel or manipulate them however she wishes, stimulate individual molecules to create heat, and generate concussive force or protective shields.
It was later revealed that Phoenix had a secondary mutation. This mutation makes her the physical embodiment of the Phoenix Force; she and the Phoenix itself has stated that they are in fact one and the same being. The Phoenix powers are infinite. She is able to manipulate matter and energy on a sub-atomic scale, although there is substantial variation in the amount of power she has access to at any point based on her current health, mental blocks (natural or constructed - by herself or others), and sometimes for other more esoteric reasons.

Phoenix Force Avatar: A cosmic entity which embodies chaos, especially the the act of creation (and necessarily destruction - that creation may begin again), and derives its power from those yet unborn.[62] Phoenix's body is permanently tied to the Phoenix Force as a nexus. The Phoenix Force gives her vast psionic ability to manipulate time, space, matter, and energy for virtually any purpose. Phoenix can also revive, absorb, rechannel and preserve any kind of life-form, since the Phoenix is the sum of all life-force. The Phoenix Force can significantly boost her mental abilities allowing her to rearrange matter at a molecular level, to fly unaided through space, create intense heat and thermal energy by stimulating molecular activity to create fire, flames, and concussive blasts. She can create fire under any condition, including while submerged, and she can manipulate thermal energy in her vicinity. She can also manipulate the voluntary and involuntary responses in the human body.

• Cosmic Pyrokinesis: After merged perfectly with Phoenix Force, Phoenix now be able to create cosmic fire and flames as her will, which is known as Cosmic Pyrokinesis. Cosmic Pyrokinesis is her ability to create, control, and also manipulate cosmic flames, flames which are not dependent on oxygen. The cosmic flames are created from her cosmic energy power or her power to stimulate heat molecules to create concussive blasts, or maybe she combined those powers in order to create more powerful cosmic flames. She usually burns her enemies with the cosmic fire by molecules, so there's no remains like ashes, or other remainings. Her cosmic flames are different flames with flames that usually created by common pyrokinetics (like Sunfire). Because her flames are not dependent on oxygen, she can create cosmic flames under seemingly impossible condition like underwater or vacuum space. She usually creates her cosmic flames in a fiery-bird like shape, which refer as phoenix bird. But the flames not always in fiery-bird shape. They also can take shape in fireballs, claws, or even flames' ordinary shape. She also can create cosmic flames which burn not only physically, but also mentally as well as both of her "burnings" are the same equal of pain. Although her cosmic flames are very powerful and can burn everything in this entire galaxy, she only "burns away what doesn't work." Which means, she only wants to burn things that she wants to burn. So that's why her clothes have never seen being burned by her cosmic flames although she is usually seen in her cosmic flames form.

• Telekinetic Sensitivity: That lets her feel the texture of objects she has a telekinetic hold on, feel when other objects come into contact with them, and probe them at a molecular level to identify if they contain alien materials or feel when two things which she has a telekinetic “hold” upon are similarly composed. [63]

• Resurrection: Any time Phoenix dies, the Phoenix Force will ultimately resurrect her. Sometimes this resurrection is instantaneous, at other times she spends time in the White Hot Room doing "Phoenix Work". If she dies, the Phoenix Force will automatically create a telekinetic cocoon, known as a "Phoenix Egg". If she's in the Phoenix Egg, the "Egg" is very hot to the touch. She also can resurrect others from death, not just herself. This was shown in New X-Men when she resurrected Emma Frost from death, by reconstructing and repairing Emma's body on a molecular level. Furthermore, Emma's body had been obliterated while in diamond form, so Jean telekinetically merged her diamond body back together on a molecular level and then downloaded Beast's knowledge of human physiology in order to ensure that the heart, liver, lungs..., were placed in the correct place physiologically. It is still unknown how she resurrects somebody who has been dead for a while. Maybe she calls for the departed soul mentally while in the psionic firebird form, and takes them back from the realm of the dead after the departed soul realizes that she is calling out to them. Perhaps she captures the departed soul with the claws of the firebird and thus brings it back to the real world. In Phoenix Endsong, the Phoenix Force simply goes to the grave and enters Jean's rotting body. Afterwards, Jean's body is instantaneously healed and Jean simply is revived. Also, in Warsong, the Phoenix Force brings back the deceased Esme in a similar way. Bonding with the partly rotten body and simply healing it. Once healed, it is like Esme simply woke up from a dream state

http://en.marveldatabase.com/The_White_Phoenix_of_the_Crown

 

[Primal Slayer]

Am I the only one who thinks the new baby mutant just introduced may be Jean Grey reborn?

 

[Havok83]

Am I the only one who thinks the new baby mutant just introduced may be Jean Grey reborn?

no. Theres a whole discussion about that over in the other threads discussing Messiah Complex. The hints were definetly there to make a reader think that but theres no confirmation

 

[Manic]

It's bunk! Bunk, I tell you!

I'll believe that baby is Jean when she does one of the following:
1. Generates flames
2. Leaves a Phoenix insignia somewhere
3. Grows up overnight, and just turns into Jean
4. Turns her hair red, because that child is blonde!

 

[The Weather God]

hmmm i thought the baby had red/orange hair with green eyes like jean?

 

[Havok83]

hmmm i thought the baby had red/orange hair with green eyes like jean?

he's referring to the fact that 1 of the writers said it was supposed to be strawberry blonde

 

[The Weather God]

Well the artist must have bad coloring skills because that baby's hair looks as red as a cherry.

 

[HandOfFate]

It turns blond by the end of MC crossover

 

[Havok83]

It turns blond by the end of MC crossover

lol...this is the last shot of her at the end of MC. Looks red to me

 

[The Weather God]

and isn't it kind of ironic what's in that locket?