Official UFC Thread

[Kargo Warrior]

Considering that he won the belt and defended it twice, it's hard to call him a manufactured hype train. When you win a title you're legit, and he defended it as many times consecutively as Randy and Sylvia. That ties him for the lead when it comes to keeping the belt, and places him second overall all time in successful heavyweight title defenses.

Hell his title run is just as good as any heavyweights out there. I'll go out on a limb and even say that he was a better champ than the great Big Nog. Nog only successfully defended his title once to a freak show in Bob Sapp. He then relinquished it to the all time heavyweight G.O.A.T. Lesnar got his title from the UFC's best ever heavyweight champ, defended it against a former champ(that beat Nog btw) in a tournament of elite heavyweights, and then also defended it against one of the strongest guys at heavyweight who can beat you in two dimensions. Also keep in fact that he came back from a career threatening injury to beat Carwin, and that makes his run more impressive. He then relinqushed his title to who I think will be the next heavyweight G.O.A.T., but even if Cain doesn't live up to those expectations he's as legit as they come.

Compare both Brock and Nog and you have two one dimensional grapplers who have nothing for you if they can't get you down, but they are so great at doing what they did that it allowed them to become champs. Brock became champ in a deeper and more evolved heavyweight class than Nog did, so I think it's safe to say that he's legit.

Hype doesn't win championships.

Brock became a champion because he was given a title shot after winning a decision over Heath Herring...against a 47 year old Randy Couture.

Do you honestly believe that Lesnar would've become a champion if he had to fight Carwin,Cain,JDS and then fight for the title?

The only impressive performance he had in the UFC was against Mir 2...he pounded him and that's that.

The Carwin fight was the same fight as the Cain fight,Brock showing that he's nothing more than an athlete but sure as hell not a fighter,showing he doesn't posses a fighting instinct,to counter when getting punched,not to panic,run and turtle.

Had Carwin paced himself better the outcome would have been the same.

Brock has such a huge mass and athleticism that given only those two assets he can win fights...but his weak points are too many and most of them can't be learned at such an advanced age.He will always panic,he will always have no standing defense,no standing offense and he's like a fish out of water when on his back.He's nothing more than a bigger,stronger Mark Coleman.

Fighters like Diego don't have too much athletic ability but their will,determination and heart propel them far more than their natural abilities would predict.

People like Brock,Bobby Lashley,etc...are not fighters in the true sense of the word,they are bullies,given their size they can beat you up but once punched,they panic and quit.

 

[B]

Sherdog has a few awesome posters though. You can usually tell them by seeing that they don't just hate on fighters to prove a point. Kinda like the guy who made that Overeem vid, Iron Blade/Ravden. Not all of them are ******s. Just 99.98% of them are.

True it would be ignorant to say the website is full of ******s, some are quite insightful & can talk about a fight without any sort of heavy bias.. its a pity that this type of poster is an indangered species over there. Your assessment is bang on, 99.98% of them are ******s without question.

it seems to be all "well I train and bla bla bla".....ok? and? just because you and your buddies play grabass in the local gym twice a week doesn't mean you're a "MMA fighter in training" and that doesn't mean your opinion is worth more than some other ******s opinion

Thanks a bunch, I have just nearly choked on a glass of coke after reading the 'grabass at the local gym' bit

 

[B]

I'm just celebrating the fact that the biggest UFC manufactured hype train of all time has just crashed.

Considering that he won the belt and defended it twice, it's hard to call him a manufactured hype train. When you win a title you're legit, and he defended it as many times consecutively as Randy and Sylvia. That ties him for the lead when it comes to keeping the belt, and places him second overall all time in successful heavyweight title defenses.

Hell his title run is just as good as any heavyweights out there. I'll go out on a limb and even say that he was a better champ than the great Big Nog. Nog only successfully defended his title once to a freak show in Bob Sapp. He then relinquished it to the all time heavyweight G.O.A.T. Lesnar got his title from the UFC's best ever heavyweight champ, defended it against a former champ(that beat Nog btw) in a tournament of elite heavyweights, and then also defended it against one of the strongest guys at heavyweight who can beat you in two dimensions. Also keep in fact that he came back from a career threatening injury to beat Carwin, and that makes his run more impressive. He then relinqushed his title to who I think will be the next heavyweight G.O.A.T., but even if Cain doesn't live up to those expectations he's as legit as they come.

Compare both Brock and Nog and you have two one dimensional grapplers who have nothing for you if they can't get you down, but they are so great at doing what they did that it allowed them to become champs. Brock became champ in a deeper and more evolved heavyweight class than Nog did, so I think it's safe to say that he's legit.

Hype doesn't win championships.

^ This.

If your looking for manufactured hype, look no further than Overeem.

 

[BlackLantern]

I think some, SOME, people take their hatred of Lesnar way too far....like he besmirched your honorable octagon because of his WWE background

lets remember that when it started, UFC was little more than human cockfighting

 

[doih]

just clearing up a couple things...

Considering that he won the belt and defended it twice, it's hard to call him a manufactured hype train. When you win a title you're legit, and he defended it as many times consecutively as Randy and Sylvia. That ties him for the lead when it comes to keeping the belt, and places him second overall all time in successful heavyweight title defenses.

Randy has the most title defences for heavyweight (Rizzox2, Gonzaga). Arlovski, Sylvia, and Lesnar each have 2 (one of Arlovski's was an interim defence).

Hell his title run is just as good as any heavyweights out there. I'll go out on a limb and even say that he was a better champ than the great Big Nog. Nog only successfully defended his title once to a freak show in Bob Sapp. He then relinquished it to the all time heavyweight G.O.A.T. Lesnar got his title from the UFC's best ever heavyweight champ, defended it against a former champ(that beat Nog btw) in a tournament of elite heavyweights, and then also defended it against one of the strongest guys at heavyweight who can beat you in two dimensions. Also keep in fact that he came back from a career threatening injury to beat Carwin, and that makes his run more impressive. He then relinqushed his title to who I think will be the next heavyweight G.O.A.T., but even if Cain doesn't live up to those expectations he's as legit as they come.

Nog actually doesn't have any title defences. He did however hold the interim belt and went to the final of the 2004 GP as the interim champ.

I think Nog faced better competition though none of his fights were defences until Fedor. But this is up to opinions ofc.

I'm not sure what your 'tournament of elite heavyweights' refers to.

If we're getting technical, unifying belts doesn't count as a title defence either, but I think that's largely semantical arguments.

Compare both Brock and Nog and you have two one dimensional grapplers who have nothing for you if they can't get you down, but they are so great at doing what they did that it allowed them to become champs. Brock became champ in a deeper and more evolved heavyweight class than Nog did, so I think it's safe to say that he's legit.

Hype doesn't win championships.

Nog's boxing is decent.

 

[BlackSymbiote]

it seems to be all "well I train and bla bla bla".....ok? and? just because you and your buddies play grabass in the local gym twice a week doesn't mean you're a "MMA fighter in training" and that doesn't mean your opinion is worth more than some other ******s opinion

I read a thread trashing women MMA and the guy who started it basically said he trains and he could beat any women MMA fighter.

Also most of the posts were "I don't like to see women fight." Only a few were legit criticisms, like lack of competition.

 

[BlackLantern]

I read a thread trashing women MMA and the guy who started it basically said he trains and he could beat any women MMA fighter.

Also most of the posts were "I don't like to see women fight." Only a few were legit criticisms, like lack of competition.

Id agree on the lack of competition, I also think womens MMA has a perception issue with MMA fans....like "I don't like to see women fight"...ok? why not?

 

[Darthphere]

I'm not used to seeing women not in the kitchen.

 

[B]

I'm not used to seeing women not in the kitchen.

Oh no he didn't.

 

[Paroxysm]

Considering that he won the belt and defended it twice, it's hard to call him a manufactured hype train.

It's actually quite easy.

When you win a title you're legit, and he defended it as many times consecutively as Randy and Sylvia. That ties him for the lead when it comes to keeping the belt, and places him second overall all time in successful heavyweight title defenses.

Wrong.

Hell his title run is just as good as any heavyweights out there. I'll go out on a limb and even say that he was a better champ than the great Big Nog.
Nog only successfully defended his title once to a freak show in Bob Sapp. He then relinquished it to the all time heavyweight G.O.A.T. Lesnar got his title from the UFC's best ever heavyweight champ, defended it against a former champ(that beat Nog btw) in a tournament of elite heavyweights, and then also defended it against one of the strongest guys at heavyweight who can beat you in two dimensions. Also keep in fact that he came back from a career threatening injury to beat Carwin, and that makes his run more impressive. He then relinqushed his title to who I think will be the next heavyweight G.O.A.T., but even if Cain doesn't live up to those expectations he's as legit as they come.

Compare both Brock and Nog and you have two one dimensional grapplers who have nothing for you if they can't get you down, but they are so great at doing what they did that it allowed them to become champs. Brock became champ in a deeper and more evolved heavyweight class than Nog did, so I think it's safe to say that he's legit.

 

[B]

Great counter argument you have there..

 

[Paroxysm]

Great argument you have there..

His reply - like most of yours - contained lots of illogical fanaticism. Comparing Brock and Nog is just to hilarious. Brock and Sapp would have been more accurate.


I have to remember that as the sport grows in a rapid fashion, so does its acknowledgeable but cocky fanbase.

 

[E-Man]

47 year old Randy Couture was good enough to come back from over a year long layoff to beat a much bigger Tim Sylvia. The same Tim who a lot of people now claim was so great after Fedor beat him. That guy who was a pretty good champ. Randy beat him, then took out another guy who was much bigger in Gonzaga. You can throw the 47 before his name, but his age doesn't show his skills. Hell when he left the UFC and tried to fight Fedor, everyone was like "OMG this match is going to be awesome! Who to choose?!" Before he fought Brock everyone said Brock would lose. After Brock beat him he became old.

As for the tournament thing, it was to be the winner of Brock/Couture vs. the winner of Mir/Nog to unify the title. At that time Randy and Nog were seen as the best heavyweights besides Fedor, and they were heavy favorites in both fights. Brock beat Randy, and Mir beat Nog. They were superior to fighters who were considered elite. No matter how many excuses are made, the fact remains that Brock and Mir beat elite fighters. To be elite you have to beat elite, and they earn their status. It doesn't matter what skill set you use to win, if you win you're superior. You can call Brock unskilled all you want, but if he wins against top guys that must mean that he's skilled at something. When's the last time a heavyweight with that type of size used it to their advantage anyway? Mark freaking Kerr. People swung from his jock, and he didn't beat nearly the same comp as Brock has. But he never was an American pro wrestler, so he's all legit.

And it's easy to compare Brock and Nog. Both guys were champs in the dominate MMA organization. Both guys come from good grappling bases, and are/were one dimensional. The only difference in their record is that Brock stepped to the UFC early instead of beating 10 or so cans before getting to the big stage. I'm not knocking Nog at all when I say that Brock's the better champion. I'm simply stating that Brock was "the man" longer than Nog was, and that his competition was better than Nog's.

 

[B]

His reply - like most of yours - contained lots of illogical fanaticism. Comparing Brock and Nog is just to hilarious. Brock and Sapp would have been more accurate.

Since when do you use logic when it comes to forming an opinion? Anyone can see your blinded by your dislike of a fighter to have an opinion to be taken seriously.. you should just pipe down & enjoy the fact that a fighter you dislike was beat.

You've just proven that your opinion on anything MMA & especally Brock Lesnar is a joke to be laughed at everytime you speak, you've compared someone with a world class competitive wrestling backround to a failed grid iron player turned "kickboxer"..

E-Man's comparison was far more level headed & accurate than your suggestion of a comparison.

I have to remember that as the sport grows in a rapid fashion, so does its acknowledgeable but cocky fanbase.

This is ironic coming from you.

 

[BlackLantern]

what baffles me, as a casual fan of MMA, is that there are people that refuse to believe that Lesnar has anything to contribute, that he can't improve and is somehow an affront to MMA

 

[LOBO3315a]

Lesner losing just proves 1 thing: Any fighter can beat any other fighter, on any given night.

 

[BlackLantern]

that's what I go by

 

[BlackSymbiote]

what baffles me, as a casual fan of MMA, is that there are people that refuse to believe that Lesnar has anything to contribute, that he can't improve and is somehow an affront to MMA

It's because he was a pro wrestler first and the hardcore fans bristle at the prospect of some fake wrestler coming into their real sport. This could be because the only two American pro wrestlers who have done anything in MMA are Lesnar and Lashley. In Japan, a bunch of pro wrestlers tried MMA, and most of them got destroyed. A few MMA fighters did moonlight as pro wrestlers in Japan though.

They couldn't really say anything after Brock dominated Mir and only lost to a rookie mistake, nor could they say anything after Brock beat Herring, then Couture, and then Mir again.

The Brock hating really took off after his poor showing and lucky win against Shane Carwin, and his poor showing and loss against Velasquez doesn't help matters.

Brock cutting WWE-esque heel promos and becoming essentially the face of the UFC so early in his career also didn't help.

Even so, the same people had the same reaction when Fedor lost too, even though Fedor was dominant for ten years and 31 fights, instead of just 5 and a handful.

If Brock had had a decent strike defense, the fight with Velasquez would have lasted longer, and Brock may have won. It was his lack of strike defense and his reaction to being hit that should be criticized because it would be a legit criticism. The people who are tearing down every aspect of him are only doing so because they don't like him.

That said, I'll take a first round TKO over watching yet another fight go to decision.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Wow, Brock got his face rocked. Still a huge Lesnar fan, will be for life, but big congrats to Cain

Idk about Brock being "done". He'll go back and train some more and fight another day. But I won't rain on the "Brock-hate" parade. He lost on Sat, end of story

 

[Darthphere]

I have to remember that as the sport grows in a rapid fashion, so does its acknowledgeable but cocky fanbase.

Wow, elitist much?

 

[LOBO3315a]

I think anyone with intellectual honesty will say Lesnar is a bright star that needs a lot of work. I think he got a title shot a little too early, and should have had to work a little longer and I'm a fan of his.

That being said, I don't think he'll back down from this. He'll regroup, work on his striking defense, and come back.

And I would not want to be in Velasquez's shoes if he's still the champion.

As for women's MMA, I'm all for it. I've never seen a reason for it not to be a watched event. Size and upper body strength doesn't always make the best fighter. Technique goes a long way.

 

[E-Man]

Lesner losing just proves 1 thing: Any fighter can beat any other fighter, on any given night.

It's always hilarious how some people can be so sure that someone is going to win. It's one thing to be confident, but to outright deny a fighter a chance is asinine. It's like 2007 taught people nothing at all. lol

It's because he was a pro wrestler first and the hardcore fans bristle at the prospect of some fake wrestler coming into their real sport. This could be because the only two American pro wrestlers who have done anything in MMA are Lesnar and Lashley. In Japan, a bunch of pro wrestlers tried MMA, and most of them got destroyed. A few MMA fighters did moonlight as pro wrestlers in Japan though.

The funniest thing about a lot of Brock haters is that they're also Saku fans. Sakuraba came from a pro wrestling background into MMA. Now Saku is awesome and everything, but if people are gonna hate on Brock for being in WWE they should really hate Saku. Same thing with Barnett.

 

[unknownuser]

I don't understand all this Brock hate. I am a casual fan myself and I think he is a pretty good and entertaining mixed martial artist. He needs to brush up on his defense and I can see him back in the top mix within a year or so

 

[Mace Bloodstone]

It's simple, Brock plays the bad guy role and people love to hate him.

 

[Mace Bloodstone]

Brock had the right game plan for the first 2 minutes of the fight, use his size and bull rush Cain and try and smother him, but when that wasn't enough he had no plan B.. Plus lack of experience in being in trouble (weathering the storm) didn't help either.