Comics Parker's strength of mind in relation to the symbiotes

[Odin's Lapdog]

right parker is scared of having the symbiote take over him, correct, that's all good and dandy..

he seems to have this constant fear of the venom symbiote.

Saying this, has he even come into contact with it since he took it off ages ago?

I'm just wondering how fragile pete's mind is in comparison to ben reilly who has arguable the more unstable/evil carnage symbiote on for a short period of time, yet he managed to keep it undercheck while he went off and did what he had to do (get it back to cassidy). The same carnage symbiote that took control of the surfer and warped him for a short time but pete remained in conrtol (even though he was walking the line) for the time he had it on.

for some reason it's always painted a picture in my head that spidey doesn't have the strength of mind that Ben did. Parker is just terrrified of what he'll become if one even sneezes on him.

if anyone has got any evidence of parker getting with a venom or carnage symbiote in the comics and keeping his cool, i;d like to know because i haven't foudn one yet and i would have thought pete could take it...

especially with this toxin guy around now who seems to have also managed to tame a symbiote to some degree.

is pete just weak minded when it comes to this?

 

[Hobgoblin]

No, I dont think that Peter is weak minded at all. Being bonded to a symbiote and trying to keep some measure of control over yourself isnt a pleasant experience, as I'm sure Ben Reilly would tell you. Peter may well be able to keep control of himself while fighting a symbiotes influence, but that doesnt mean he would want it to happen.

Peter didnt bond with the Venom symbiote in Peter Parker #9 vol 2, but he warned it that if it attempted to bond with him, he would do anything it took to get rid of it, including killing it. Plenty of mental strength right there, I think.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

so how come toxin is willing to control his?

i don't know about that character background but he seems fine with his


peter forever seems scared. I mean even ben managed to keep it together and gave it back to cassidy or do you thnk that had more to do with not wanting to end the life of another person.

 

[storyteller]

1) Toxin is a different symbiote and isnt like venom and carnage. Symbiotes are alive and they can think and make choices. The man behind toxin has a strong will for it not to give in totally(again the toxin symbiote isnt completely like its parents, its not as evil.)

2) Your comparing Ben to essentially Pete getting the suit off. Ben has peters memories of the symbiote and its peters will and foreknowledge that kept the symbiote in check. Your wrong to compare a younger peter parker to someone who has the experiences and plus knowledge(and of course actual oppurtunity).

3) Peter has never demonstrated the type of fear you describe. In most cases , the symbiote was on a man trying to kill him.



In all honesty i think your post has no sensible bearing to question petes mind strength.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

hold on a sec, i thought parker and ben had separated before venom ever came along, hence why ben has inexperience against him...

ben doesn't have any backlog of memories with the symbiotes trying to take him over.

i think carnage was his first attempt and he takes it on the chin.

i'm not sure why the experience is more traumatic for parker, i feel his relationship to the symbiote is more of a worry that it will take over him with the venom symbiote.

the carnage one is far more brutal and more likely to effect the mind of the host but ben is willing to deal with it.

i know it's wrong to use other mediums in this discussion but from the ultimate line, ps game and also the animated series, parker made points of either not trusting the symbiotes, stating they couldn't be controlled or simply worrying about the extent to which he would go to when doing something, even though in the main stream it never negatively effected his personality when he had it on.

i've always seen his lack of embrace for it as fear of losing control, perhaps i'm wrong, it's just the way i read into it.

 

[Arcturus]

Interesting queston, but I haven't been keeping up with the 616 for a long time, especially the clone saga. I do own a few issues with spider carnage, i'll dig em up and get back to you.

 

[SpideyInATree]

The solution to this problem is simple.

Find an alien symbiote. Have it bond with you. And see how long it takes before it overtakes you. Then we'll know.

 

[MaxCarnage]

I believe that Ben was made before the black suit incident, which is why he was able to sense the symbiote. He had never bonded with the symbiote, and was different enough from Peter that it didn't have the same affect on him.

 

[Arcturus]

The solution to this problem is simple.

Find an alien symbiote. Have it bond with you. And see how long it takes before it overtakes you. Then we'll know.

Done and done!

Whoa, upon bonding, i've got to tell you, it was quite an experiance, physically and mentally. Now the waiting game begins.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Have you used the alien symbiote for evil yet? I know I would have by now.

 

[Arcturus]

Have you used the alien symbiote for evil yet? I know I would have by now.

Oh yeah, i've done some nasty things already. I shot put a few cars to test my strength, it was fun! I don't know how fun it was for the people still in the cars, but we had a blast!

 

[SpideyInATree]

I would have already used the symbiote to make myself better looking and nail really, really hot women. I'd save a bundle in clothing, that's for sure. THANKS ALIEN SYMBIOTE!!

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

I want one!! I already save a lot of money on my car insurance by switching to geico... I want to save money on clothing as well...

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

I believe that Ben was made before the black suit incident, which is why he was able to sense the symbiote. He had never bonded with the symbiote, and was different enough from Peter that it didn't have the same affect on him.

although the reason why it may not have affected him may have come from strength of character or simply how carnage effects his host in comparison to venom.

 

[wolvie2020]

I think this is a pretty good question...

Well, there's a couple of ways to explain this.

1st off, as Ben became Spider-Man, this proved incredibly unpopular. The writers were constantly told to find ways to get fans to enjoy the new Spidey. This was one of the many moves that they made to make Ben, stronger, tougher, cooler, and more heroic than Peter. They really tried for people to like Ben, this was one of the reasons. They tried to 'prove,' that Ben deserved to be Spidey more than Peter.

Well, now that this is continuity, another reason could be that Ben hadn't gone through some of the extreme upsets that Pete had gone through in the last few years. From the 1st clone experience, to Ben meeting Peter once again, A LOT had happened to Peter. A lot of dark sruff too. Also, Ben didn't have to gp through all of the stuff that that Pete had to go through with Venom and Carnage. Some really scary stuff. Pete at that point in Marvel history, had become quite an, (unforunately,) unbalanced chrachter.

So maybe Bens naivety to the symbiotes actually helped him somewhat. He had less fear, as he wasn't made to fear them as much. He also had less to lose compared to Peter.

Also, Peter became very brooding, and more angry at that point, maybe he worried that the symbiote would feed off of his own hate? The idea of Ben was to make Spider-Man more care free like in the old ays, maybe Ben didn't carry as much s**t around inside him like Peter?

Although strange, I think this thoughts pretty cool

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

but wouldn't all of peter's experiences make him more away of what is happening and thus less likely to go over the deep end, evidence would suggest that ben would have completely lost it if he bonded with the crazier carnage symbiote, powerful enough to influence even the surfer for a period of time and we all know about how touch his will power is.

I mean perhaps it was just a small arc that was never meant to be significant but ben took having carnage on the chin and didn't let it control him. The way parker views the situation is as if he wouldn't have the strength of mind to do the same...

surely his best bet of beating venom would be allowing the symbiote to bond with him and thus keeping it on him long enough to figure a way to dispose of it rather than what he's doing now or had done previously...

 

[TheWhiteSpider]

right parker is scared of having the symbiote take over him, correct, that's all good and dandy..

he seems to have this constant fear of the venom symbiote.

Saying this, has he even come into contact with it since he took it off ages ago?

I'm just wondering how fragile pete's mind is in comparison to ben reilly who has arguable the more unstable/evil carnage symbiote on for a short period of time, yet he managed to keep it undercheck while he went off and did what he had to do (get it back to cassidy). The same carnage symbiote that took control of the surfer and warped him for a short time but pete remained in conrtol (even though he was walking the line) for the time he had it on.

for some reason it's always painted a picture in my head that spidey doesn't have the strength of mind that Ben did. Parker is just terrrified of what he'll become if one even sneezes on him.

if anyone has got any evidence of parker getting with a venom or carnage symbiote in the comics and keeping his cool, i;d like to know because i haven't foudn one yet and i would have thought pete could take it...

especially with this toxin guy around now who seems to have also managed to tame a symbiote to some degree.

is pete just weak minded when it comes to this?

Whoa, I believe a reframing of perspective is in order here. Peter has handled prolonged contact with the symbiote better than anyone else ever has, and was in contact with the ["Venom"] symbiote longer than any other individual was in contact with a symbiote -- besides Brock and Cassidy.

You must remember, Peter began joining with the symbiote during the Secret War. Peter was merged with the symbiote day in and day out, even using it as his regular clothing for months. Despite this constant contact, Peter did not develop a dual personality ["We hunger.." "we need.."], and the symbiote was only able to influence Parker's physical actions when he was asleep. The symbiote itself realized that Peter would never willingly bond with it, and had to bring Peter to the point of extreme exhaustion, by keeping his body active every night, before it could even stand a chance of permanently bonding with him.

Peter was shocked to learn that symbiote was alive at all, which demonstrates how little impact the alien had on Peter's conscious mind. The reason he is so afraid and so fearful is because of the extreme shock and digust he felt when he learned that the symbiote was a living alien, feeding off of his life energy, and attempting to merge with him permanently. [Just wait until you find out what your favorite pair of socks do at night].

Every other single person who came into contact with a symbiote almost instantly:

a) Lost his original personality and became a merged persona with the symbiote

- or -

b) Had a deep internal crisis over which personality would exert dominance.

For Peter it was never more of a mental challege than dealing with a "crazy suit." That's probably why some here don't even consider the symbiote to have had a identity before it became "Venom" with Brock, because Parker's will was so strong the alien couldn't even express its identity when merged with Peter. No magic happened to the alien when it met Brock, it simply was able to express itself and exert influence in a way it could not with Spider-Man. Nobody managed merging with a symbiote better than Pete; because, when he had one, it was so "in check" nobody knew it had a mind, and he continued his normal life unfazed for months.

Btw, the evidence you're looking for is in Secret Wars #8 through to Amazing #258.

 

[TheWhiteSpider]

Edit -- double post.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

alright these factors are true but couldn't one just put that down to the venom symbiote being quite covert about its nature unwanting to reveal it to it's user. Everyone else who has come into contact with a symbiote pretty much knows it's not a great idea so they go in joining with all guns blazing.

perhaps venom's first encounter with parker taught it to be more aggresive with it's taking over nature and since toxin and carnage are descendants of venom, he has passed on this information genetically to his kinhood.


any bonding with parker at this moment in time or any since that incident would clearly have a detrimental effect on his persona, one i believe he fears to get as he is unsure whether of what he'd do under its influence and thus he fears their contact or presence with him.

I think there is enough evidence to provide that peter's earlier experiences are not an accurate basis of what he would be like if he joined with the symbiotes now.

I mean you're giving off the vibe that parker's mind is infinitely more resilient than the silver surfer's since the cosmic carnage had carnage influences if only for a short time.

venom simply didn't go in for a mental attack back in the day, that's how i rationalise it.

 

[MaxCarnage]

venom simply didn't go in for a mental attack back in the day, that's how i rationalise it.

You mean that's how you make the facts fit your pre-conceived notion.