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Playstation HOME: "Live in our world, play in ours"

^^While the concept is similar to the mii, it looks like Sony has vastly expanded on the idea so it's not a total rip off. Also, I know Sony has supposedly been working on this for almost 3 years and couldn't fit it in to the PS2 so it might actually just be a similar idea (although I don't know if this last part is true.)

Overall, I don't see that big of a deal with taking a competitor's idea and just improving on it and making it your own. It happens all the time in every business there is, but for some reason in the videogame world everybody thinks it's a mortal sin. Hell just go over to the 300 boards and see how most people love the look of 300 and only a few are crying fould saying it's a total rip off of Sin City/Sky Captain.
 
You guys now that I'm no fan of the Wii but this is a total rip off of it. People aren't going to pay $600 just to play a second life rip off either.

A rip off of Mii in what context? Nintendo never invented personal avatars. I mean seriously, with Mii you're talking about a chibi little simply stylized dude who you can use in a mini game packed in with the Wii, that's about it.

Home is a meta MMO where the "quests" are playing games in your PlayStation 3 collection and you earn the "experience and Levels" from Achievements that impact your experience in HOME.

If you want to call this a Second Life rip off be my guest, but saying that HOME is a "Mii too" approach is wrong. This not only is something different from Mii, but it blows Mii out of the water if you really want to infer that they're both executions of the same concept.

No one will probably buy a PS3 just for HOME, it's just another collection of things that when put together, people might buy a PS3 for.

That doesn't mean I haven't read people saying "I'm buying a PS3 for HOME/LittleBigPlanet" because I have, but they aren't really just buying the console for that.
 
You guys now that I'm no fan of the Wii but this is a total rip off of it. People aren't going to pay $600 just to play a second life rip off either.
haha tell that to the numerous posters who popped up across different boards last week saying they would
 
Home is a meta MMO where the "quests" are playing games in your PlayStation 3 collection and you earn the "experience and Levels" from Achievements that impact your experience in HOME.

So, is playing Live and/or your Xbox games and getting achievements a meta MMO? Is Madden 06 a meta MMO because you can gain levels from playing more often and earning achievements? Calling something like this anything like a MMO is really stretching things.

It's more like a mini-game than anything along the lines of a MMO.
 
So, is playing Live and/or your Xbox games and getting achievements a meta MMO?

No.

Is Madden 06 a meta MMO because you can gain levels from playing more often and earning achievements?

No.

Calling something like this anything like a MMO is really stretching things

No.

It's more like a mini-game than anything along the lines of a MMO.

Wrong.
 
How is Home not an meta MMO?

Because then basically any virtual system where you gain points that really mean nothing and really further no sort of system besides moving up in "rank" and gaining trophies as you progress (see: Madden NFL 06, or NCAA 06, 07) would be a "meta MMO."

As far as I can tell, "Home" isn't a "Massively Multiplayer" anything. It's basically the Mii system with a few more quirks and more heavy on the graphics.
 
Ok that's incorrect.

The Definitions of the word Meta

Meta (from Greek: μετά = "after", "beyond", "with"), is a prefix used in English in order to indicate a concept which is an abstraction from another concept, used to complete or add to the latter. The Greek meta is equivalent to the Latin post.

HOME is massive multi player, you'd have a hard time proving otherwise.

There are two meanings to MMO, a traditional meaning and a literal meaning.

The traditional meaning is a persistent world when you have a persistent character who gains skills or points or stature within the boundaries of the games system.

Just like Home does, because the games world is persistent and your character gains points, items, stature, through playing games various games in the Playstation library.All these things have some way to effect my own personal avatar or his private space (like the 'Rooms' in PSU). Even MMO games without a stat based (as in strength, dexterity, constitution) are still MMO's, just not MMO RPGs.

The key component to what makes an MMO in the traditional sense is a persistent world with a persistent avatar, HOME has both.

Are you going to argue that Phantasy Star Universe isn't an MMO? Because it operates exactly like HOME except HOME doesn't use a traditional RPG setup, instead the "Quests" are earning achievements both online and offline within the games you play from your playstation 3 library. You can form a group and load directly into say Resistance, and then when you're done it will take you right back to where you were in HOME. Like Portals in PSU almost.

In the literal sense, MMO means a massive multiplayer online (game)....

The reason HOME is a Meta-MMO is because it is an abstraction of the traditional concept of an MMO. Where as in a traditional MMORPG, it's all entirely one game.

Xbox live isn't an MMO(game), because it's just a network system when you are literally a name, that is entirely segregated depending on what game you're playing (aside from cross game messaging), but it's a service, not a game.

HOME, is like a game on top of all the other games you own (Hence it's a meta MMO), it's online 24/7, it does have it's own in game games to play, Your character is persistent, the world is persistent with content changes (both in the form of games and areas/content within the game world etc).

Until Mii gets a persistent online world, Mii isn't an MMO. This goings well beyond anything like Mii, which is basically a gimmick based avatar creation system that will be supported in a handful of titles. Give a Mii channel that's actually something resembling HOME, and it's a different story.

As far as I can tell, "Home" isn't a "Massively Multiplayer" anything. It's basically the Mii system with a few more quirks and more heavy on the graphics.

HOME is nothing like Mii aside from avatars. That's like, painfully obvious to anyone.
 
owned.

Deleted User...why the hell do you try give the PS3 so much crap all the damn time? what do you have against it?...seriously, i want to know
 
Ok that's incorrect.

The Definitions of the word Meta

Meta (from Greek: μετά = "after", "beyond", "with"), is a prefix used in English in order to indicate a concept which is an abstraction from another concept, used to complete or add to the latter. The Greek meta is equivalent to the Latin post.

HOME is massive multi player, you'd have a hard time proving otherwise.

There are two meanings to MMO, a traditional meaning and a literal meaning.

The traditional meaning is a persistent world when you have a persistent character who gains skills or points or stature within the boundaries of the games system.

Just like Home does, because the games world is persistent and your character gains points, items, stature, through playing games various games in the Playstation library.All these things have some way to effect my own personal avatar or his private space (like the 'Rooms' in PSU). Even MMO games without a stat based (as in strength, dexterity, constitution) are still MMO's, just not MMO RPGs.

The key component to what makes an MMO in the traditional sense is a persistent world with a persistent avatar, HOME has both.

Are you going to argue that Phantasy Star Universe isn't an MMO? Because it operates exactly like HOME except HOME doesn't use a traditional RPG setup, instead the "Quests" are earning achievements both online and offline within the games you play from your playstation 3 library. You can form a group and load directly into say Resistance, and then when you're done it will take you right back to where you were in HOME. Like Portals in PSU almost.

In the literal sense, MMO means a massive multiplayer online (game)....

The reason HOME is a Meta-MMO is because it is an abstraction of the traditional concept of an MMO. Where as in a traditional MMORPG, it's all entirely one game.

Xbox live isn't an MMO(game), because it's just a network system when you are literally a name, that is entirely segregated depending on what game you're playing (aside from cross game messaging), but it's a service, not a game.

HOME, is like a game on top of all the other games you own (Hence it's a meta MMO), it's online 24/7, it does have it's own in game games to play, Your character is persistent, the world is persistent with content changes (both in the form of games and areas/content within the game world etc).

HOME is nothing like Mii aside from avatars. That's like, painfully obvious to anyone.

Except that it's not "massively" multiplayer. It's basically the virtualization of an in-game chatroom, with features like downloading arcade games given a mini-game of sorts instead of going to a store like XBL and buying them in a static menu.

Personally, I can compare this to the "Campus Legend" dorm room in the NCAA series. It's a virtual room that you can create and put random **** in, as well as updates with trophies and awards that you get while playing the game. The difference is your avatar doesn't "walk into other rooms" to play mini-games like bowling or whatever. If anything, this is just a virtualization of the process between clicking an option to play a mini-game and being there. It's not a "game within a game". It just allows you to walk around instead of having a semi-static room where you have to interact with everything by just clicking them and don't have the freedom of movement.

It doesn't make the thing a "meta MMO" by any stretch. It makes it a multiplayer online mini-game. You're assuming that "Home" will come packed with enough content to grant it the status of a "game". But it's really nothing more than a mini-game to enhance the experience of shifting through menus and gaining achievements in other games. Comparing it to an MMO makes it seem like it's something greater than it really is. It's all just hyperbole.
 
owned.

Deleted User...why the hell do you try give the PS3 so much crap all the damn time? what do you have against it?...seriously, i want to know

I'm just arguing that Home is not a meta MMO. It really has nothing to do with an MMO, and it is shameless bull****ting to suggest any different. I have yet to mention the PS3 or give it crap.

Also, using "owned" is pretty stupid when the discussion is far from being over.
 
this looks pretty cool, cnt wait to try it out...when i eventually get round to getting a ps3
 
Except that it's not "massively" multiplayer.

Actually it is, and you have yet to prove otherwise which is a fatal flaw in your arguement so far.

Home Closed Beta: 15 000 users
Home Open Beta: 50 000 users

How is it not an MMO, when Phantasy Star Universe is an MMO?

It's basically the virtualization of an in-game chatroom, with features like downloading arcade games given a mini-game of sorts instead of going to a store like XBL and buying them in a static menu.

While that's true to a certain extent, HOME is not meant to replace those features, and it has content and features that are unique to HOME itself. The fact that it' makes use of the XMB features (like your user ID, friends list etc) is a matter of logical convenient design. As for the activity of experiencing content PSN is still a seperate entity that can be accessed from within HOME and the XMB is still the fastest way to access features like your friends list.

This is seperate from what makes Home a Meta MMO. Because saying it's a virtualizer for certain features is true, but has no baring on its status as an MMO or a meta game. Because all you're talking about here is how HOME integrates some XMB features It's a persistent online world. For all your huff and puff you're utterly clueless as to what a Meta MMO really is.

You can say private spaces are like 'The Crib' which is true.

You can say it acts as a visualizer for some XMB features, which is also true.

But what does that really mean? Absolutely nothing because that all has little impact on what actually makes something an MMO or a Meta MMO for that matter.

Personally, I can compare this to the "Campus Legend" dorm room in the NCAA series. It's a virtual room that you can create and put random **** in, as well as updates with trophies and awards that you get while playing the game.

That is just the 'Private Space' of your character, just like in PSU. But the key difference is the private spaces in both Phantasy Star and HOME are a part of the persistent world. The Campus Legend isn't online, isn't part of a persistent world, and doesn't use a persistent personal avatar that interacts with thousands of other people.

The difference is your avatar doesn't "walk into other rooms" to play mini-games like bowling or whatever. If anything, this is just a virtualization of the process between clicking an option to play a mini-game and being there. It's not a "game within a game". It just allows you to walk around instead of having a semi-static room where you have to interact with everything by just clicking them and don't have the freedom of movement.

Which has nothing to do with what defines something as an MMO or a Meta MMO, of the distinction between Private and Public spaces in an MMO.

It doesn't make the thing a "meta MMO" by any stretch. It makes it a multiplayer online mini-game.

You have yet to prove how HOME isn't an MMO by any stretch. Heck you have yet to prove anythign yet, for that matter. Especially when it meets the criteria of what defines and MMO, just not an MMO-RPG/XP game.

You're assuming that "Home" will come packed with enough content to grant it the status of a "game".

It doesn't need to come packed with enough content to grant it the status of a game, considering

1) It has fully featured games already that at as its 'quests' and 'experience'.

2) It's being supported by developers through entitlements and so on.

3) The amount of content packed in doesn't stop a game from being a game even for an MMO, even for a Meta-MMO like HOME.

Which in this case is creating a world on top of the games that itself becomes a higher level 'game'. Hence why it's abstract from the original concept of what an MMO is (Insular to it's own defined content providered by one developer) yet still an MMO.

Unlike a traditional MMO, Home doesn't need to rely on packed in content, Home uses the games you're already playing as the content. Though it does have its own games and content within the world if you haven't bought what (to HOME) as essentially content packs (IE: Resistance, Motorostorm).

It's a meta-game period, it's been proven as a Meta-MMO, and you seem to be stumbling over both what defines an MMO, but what Meta means when applied as prefix.

But it's really nothing more than a mini-game to enhance the experience of shifting through menus and gaining achievements in other games. Comparing it to an MMO makes it seem like it's something greater than it really is. It's all just hyperbole.

Actually I think the creators of it would disagree with you. It's focus is not to be a mini game to enhance the experience of shifting through menues, it's a Meta-MMO social networking gaming and media oriented persistent world.
 
Actually it is, and you have yet to prove otherwise which is a fatal flaw in your arguement so far.

Home Closed Beta: 15 000 users
Home Open Beta: 50 000 users

How is it not an MMO, when Phantasy Star Universe is an MMO?

So, are you saying that Home is a game where you are always interacting with massive amounts of users? That's usually what constitutes a MMO. An atmosphere where you are constantly engaging with other players in a wide-open persistent world. Home, as far as I can see.. is a "world" that consists of a few rooms that tie into some features of PSN and records your progress in your game library. Not a MMO in any sense.


This is seperate from what makes Home a Meta MMO. Because saying it's a virtualizer for certain features is true, but has no baring on its status as an MMO or a meta game. Because all you're talking about here is how HOME integrates some XMB features It's a persistent online world that has many features that go beyond the XBM system. For all yopur huff and puff you're utterly clueless as to what a Meta MMO really is.

Really now? I'm pretty sure I know what constitutes a "meta MMO". It's something that goes "beyond" or is nuanced from a regular MMO, hence "metaphysical" and so on and so forth.

Unfortunately, you have yet to show me a feature that is truly different from any system that I can come up with. Aside from the fact that it is given a virtualization and mini-games to coincide with base functions of the experience.


That is just the 'Private Space' of your character, just like in PSU. But the key difference is the private spaces in both Phantasy Star and HOME are a part of the persistent world. The Campus Legend isn't online, isn't part of a persistent world, and doesn't use a persistent personal avatar that interacts with thousands of other people.

Exactly what persistent world is there outside of Home? I really want you to answer that. Outside of the few rooms that constitute your and others' "Home", what is there? Other "Homes"? Which would basically be the equivalent of another person's Mii "parade" on the Wii. There is no world outside of "Home" to interact with or play in, only the games that you buy.


You have yet to prove how HOME isn't an MMO by any stretch. Especially when it meets the criteria of what defines and MMO, just not an MMO-RPG/XP game.

Massively Multiplayer Online. Think of "Home" as the outside world in Guild Wars. You are only able to interact with a limited number of people within this area and only after they have joined your "group". It's not something you run around in and interact with tons of different people to at every turn. It's similar to a virtual chatroom where you have to "invite" these people or you have to be "invited" to actually interact with them. They're not just wandering around in the world for you to come across at every turn. It's scripted in how you come upon them, it's not a free-reign world where you roam around and interact with other avatars randomly.

1) It has fully featured games already that at as its 'quests' and 'experience'.

Except that those aren't actually contained within it. You have to play your own library of games to actually access that content. It's limited by how much money you've put into your gaming library, Home does not contain it's own capacity to give out quests or for you to gain experience within it.

I could say the same about XBL and gamerscore and achievements. Though that's just not given a virtual form.

2) It's being supported by developers through entitlements and so on.

Yeah, so is XBL.

3) The amount of content packed in doesn't stop a game from being a game even for an MMO, even for a Meta-MMO like HOME.

Actually, it sort of does. If all of it's content relies on outside sources, it's closer to a game achievement-tracker than an actual game. It can't actually produce any of this from within itself, you have to have the games for Home to really operate at all beyond being basically a virtual chatroom with avatars.

It's a meta-game period, it's been proven as a Meta-MMO, and you seem to be stumbling over both what defines an MMO, but what Meta means when applied as prefix. Until you can reconsile both of those things, your entire arguement is a waste of time. You continuously say "But I can get trophies in Madden 2007" which means absolutely nothing to what HOME is or what an MMO is.

Actually, it means quite a bit. The whole thing about Home is gaining achievements in going up in rank. That's the only thing that you can possibly pull out of your ass to say it is actually a "game" or is similar to a MMO. An MMO is an open world where you can interact with NPCs, and PCs as you wish as well as go on quests and update abilities, inventory, etc. Home is missing some pretty vital parts of that definition.
 
You keep saying it's just a bunch of rooms, but the video clearly showed a few scenes of what appeared to be much larger areas. One had a long hallway with a glass window showing an outside with quite a few ppl standing around, and another was pretty similar. I doubt it'll be Everquest scale, but I'm more than sure they'll have a park, or club or a series of large areas outside of rooms for people to gather. I highly, highly doubt it's just you setting in your room waiting for someone to come in it, the room just seemed to be a place you could make your own to invite ppl in, but not necessary. It looked like you could invite ppl to games or trade music anywhere in the Home world.
 
That's true, I'd like to see him respond to that.

So, are you saying that Home is a game where you are always interacting with massive amounts of users? That's usually what constitutes a MMO. An atmosphere where you are constantly engaging with other players in a wide-open persistent world. Home, as far as I can see.. is a "world" that consists of a few rooms that tie into some features of PSN and records your progress in your game library. Not a MMO in any sense.
By the way I picked up an MMO magazine today and guess what game they’re talking about inside it, Hellgate London. Which doesn’t fit your MMORPG all loaded at once definition.
The point of Home is to be engaging with other players most of the time.
Unfortunately, you have yet to show me a feature that is truly different from any system that I can come up with.
Which means nothing. Saying home has features that aren’t truly different then any system you can come up with is totally meaningless. Guess what, the patching system for World of Warcraft uses a Bittorrent style delivery system, omg it’s not a patching system because I’ve come up with a way that its feature is not truly different from a system I came up with.
Aside from the fact that it is given a virtualization and mini-games to coincide with base functions of the experience.
Again... meaningless. And you can’t exactly go into virtual theaters and watch streamed movies and user generated content from an XMB feature or PSN.

Exactly what persistent world is there outside of Home? I really want you to answer that.
Public spaces are persistent just like private spaces. Obviously. The only time they will go down is when the servers are down for maintenance. Content will be updated and delivered through Dynamic Advertising and there will be additions to the game world and locations as they expand with time. Let’s say I go to the Insomniac area, you don’t think that they aren’t going to remodel a bit for Resistance 2? Because they will.
Outside of the few rooms that constitute your and others' "Home", what is there? Other "Homes"? Which would basically be the equivalent of another person's Mii "parade" on the Wii.
Wow. Mii Parade and what happens in Home are very different things. You either never bothered to research HOME, or you’re allowing your bias to totally cloud your judgment. Even ignoring the gross technical and ‘gameplay’ differences between HOME and a Mii parade, the analogy doesn’t even hold up under any scrutiny because having you Mii and other peoples Mii randomly act as a screensaver is something entirely different from even an online avatar in a virtual world of any degree.
There is no world outside of "Home" to interact with or play in, only the games that you buy.
Wow that’s like saying there’s no World outside of World of Warcraft to interact or play in, only the other games you buy. Yet again another sign that you’re totally ignoring what constitutes a Meta-MMO. And there is a world to interact with, a world that is static and updated and taken down for updates in the same way PSU is.
If by HOME you mean you're own private space? There is a world outside of your HOME, It's called the public spaces. Places were people can randomly encounter each other, go play games, in the world and also form groups to launch into retail content.

Massively Multiplayer Online. Think of "Home" as the outside world in Guild Wars. You are only able to interact with a limited number of people within this area and only after they have joined your "group". It's not something you run around in and interact with tons of different people to at every turn. It's similar to a virtual chat room where you have to "invite" these people or you have to be "invited" to actually interact with them. They're not just wandering around in the world for you to come across at every turn. It's scripted in how you come upon them, it's not a free-reign world where you roam around and interact with other avatars randomly.
Public spaces are much like lobbies in PSU. Any MMO game, RPG or not, imposes limits on the amount of people you can interact with, and the assessment that you have to invite people into a group to encounter them is entirely false.
Maybe you don’t understand this but you’re wrong.

Part of the point of HOME is that you can and will randomly run into other people. They wouldn’t have made public space in the system if the intent was otherwise.

Except that those aren't actually contained within it. You have to play your own library of games to actually access that content.
Which is a part of what makes it a Meta MMO, and the means by which you obtain that content has no baring on what makes a game of any form or meta game, what it is. If you had to buy areas for WoW to access them it is still an MMORPG. It’s just the business model and method of content delivery that is different.
It's limited by how much money you've put into your gaming library, Home does not contain it's own capacity to give out quests or for you to gain experience within it.
Which again is what makes it a meta MMO. A higher level MMO world where you do the 'quests' by playing your library of games, and by meeting criteria within the game those systems give you rewards, stature, points, that effect your Private space, but also your personal avatar.
Beat God of War III on Titan mode and you’re character gets that ‘achievement’, points which can be used in the world in some form, and say you can now walk around with blades of chaos attached to your character or a David Jaffe T-Shirt or wahtever. As an example.

I could say the same about XBL and gamerscore and achievements. Though that's just not given a virtual form.
Or have a ‘physical’ impact upon the virtual 3D world which you inhabit, because their isn’t one in Xbox Live. It’s a key distinction.


Yeah, so is Xbox live
…
Yes XBox live is supported by developers, but their support, though similar in application (games to play) will be different in the execution of implementation. Much more then just gamerscores, the way they will implement content and rewards on HOME is a distinction between what makes Xbox live a stat P2P service and Home a Meta MMO.

Actually, it sort of does. If all of its content relies on outside sources, it's closer to a game achievement-tracker than an actual game. It can't actually produce any of this from within itself, you have to have the games for Home to really operate at all beyond being basically a virtual chatroom with avatars.
Not quite as you can get points from the games like pool bowling etc from within Home itself. User made content will be possible from within the world, though the scope of user generated content hasn’t been clarified.

Actually, it means quite a bit. The whole thing about Home is gaining achievements in going up in rank. That's the only thing that you can possibly pull out of your ass to say it is actually a "game" or is similar to a MMO. An MMO is an open world where you can interact with NPCs, and PCs as you wish as well as go on quests and update abilities, inventory, etc. Home is missing some pretty vital parts of that definition.

No it doesn't. I can kill monsters in FFXII, that doesn't mean killing monsters online in a persistent environment with a persistent avatar isn't something else then an Offline single player RPG.

Seriously you're logic has devolved to the point where saying that finding comparisons means something that clearly falls under another defition must be under the same definition of what you're comparing it to while ignoring all the differences that don't suit your notion of what it is.

You know what that's called? Selective reasoning.

You’re still trying to chain down MMO to the type of MMO you are most familiar with. You don’t need NPCs to make something an MMO. The Abilities are needless since this isn’t a combat MMO, it’s suppose to be a social meta MMO. Inventory is taken care of in the form of in game items that you can be awarded through gaining points in home and retail games, you just don’t need health potions in Home.
 

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